Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

RJ Mischo interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 56

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RJ Mischo joins me on episode 56.
RJ hails from the twin cities of Minneapolis-St Paul, where he developed his craft with a little help from local player Slim Lynwood. He then teamed up with Mojo Buford to perform around the cities, including recording an album with Mojo.
With numerous albums out under his own name, RJ has also made a career out of performing gigs with ‘pick-up’ bands when he goes on tour, giving his live shows the freshness and spontaneity that he likes to bring out.
One thing that really stands out is the plentiful fine harmonica instrumentals across his album releases.
RJ is back to work so look out for one his gigs and be sure to check out this great player.


Website:
http://rjblues.com/

Videos:

Song from Mojo Buford Harpslinger album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKjF_gMSQSs

Song from Blues Deluxe album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTJCosoKm3g

Song from I Hope You’re Satisfied album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YASa-rg3Bdg

Playing harmonica on a rack using RackIt:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYK1KPydSDc

RJ teaching at Harmonica Collective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ee-e3WfqEoM

Playing with Junior Watson in 2021:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-v7y-_NK-M


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

RJ Mishaw joins me on episode 56. RJ hails from the twin cities of Minneapolis, St. Paul, where he developed his craft with a little help from local player Slim Linwood. He then teamed up with Mojo Buffett to perform around the cities, including recording an album with Mojo. With numerous albums out under his own name, RJ has also made a career out of performing gigs with pickup bands when he goes out on tour, giving his live shows the freshness and spontaneity that he likes to bring out. One thing that really stands out is the plentiful fine harmonica instrumentals across his album releases. RJ is now back to work so look out for one of his gigs and be sure to check out this great player. Hello R.J. Michaud and welcome to the podcast. Hey Neil, thank you for having me. Thanks so much for joining us today. And so you're based on the west coast of America at the moment, yeah? Yes sir, I'm in Ventura, California. And I know that's not where you originally started. You were up in Minneapolis from the Twin Cities.

SPEAKER_01:

Minneapolis and St. Paul.

SPEAKER_00:

What was the harmonica scene like up there and what got you into playing?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it was quite a rich scene. I started out just really young. I was playing harmonica from discovering some of my brother's harmonicas, but I didn't really have a direction with it. But like in junior high, when I first really moved to the Twin Cities from eastern Wisconsin, I was a around the neighborhood and I heard a guy playing the blues harmonica sound and then went on and through high school just you know met mutual buddies that were on the path to discovering and learning all about blues and then and then as I got into it as a career I found out there was quite a rich blues scene actually in the Twin Cities.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah so you so you started playing at age 10 you say?

SPEAKER_01:

You know I'm not exactly sure that's kind of what my mom says but around that age it seems like I must have been And in fifth or sixth grade, I think I really started getting interested in harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I was pretty young then to start playing age 10. So do you think that gave you those extra years? And I think you started playing professionally, what, about the age 19? Yeah, so you had a good few years under your belt by then.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was, I put in a lot of hours when I was, oh, between maybe 15 and 20 years of age. I drove a lot of people insane with harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that seems to be the peak age when people really get into it. I think it's those later teenage years, isn't it? When you really get those obsessions that hopefully stick with you in later life.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah. And so you got your first harmonica from your brother, is that right?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I was sneaking his harmonicas and then he had found it when he was out of the house. I remember seeing a couple of harmonicas. It was like one of those Lancer harmonicas and like maybe a Scout harmonica that he had. So they're kind of like budget model harps. And then he found out that I was playing them and actually brought me to a little music store in the little town we were in, in eastern Wisconsin, and bought me a marine band, I believe, was my first harmonic of my own.

SPEAKER_00:

That's great. So your brother didn't beat you up for stealing his harmonicas. That's a good story.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, very supportive.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you start playing in the sort of high school bands at school?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, like by ninth grade, a good friend of mine in art class turned me on to the music of Johnny Winter, you know, who was a guitar player, of course. But on one of those early records at that time, Big Walter Horton was playing on it and Willie Dixon.

SPEAKER_03:

And

SPEAKER_01:

at about that time... ninth grade really started you know finding you know the the black american blues and really started on the course of um investigating and then and then found the little walters and all the harmonica players through like you know muddy waters so that was that was just before that time when johnny uh helped do those blue sky records you know the iconic hard again record of muddy waters

SPEAKER_00:

when you started picking it up yourself how were you learning were you just listening to records and playing along

SPEAKER_01:

um yeah absolutely i was just i remember having maybe one or two harmonicas and had no idea about keys or anything um i i don't even know if i if it even registered what those letters on the harmonica or i would just just literally try to play along with records and i had no idea i wasn't even in the right key

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I'm fascinated by this way that people used to learn. I mean, I was the same when I started playing. That's how I learned. But more recently, what, in the last 15, 20 years with the internet, everyone looks at YouTube and there's lots of online tuition and, you know, I know you do some tuition yourself in camp, so we'll get onto that later. But, you know, what do you think the differences are between how you learned back then and, you know, all the endless resources we've got now?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, exactly. Like you said, we were, like, very secretive of it I mean, you know, people that could play, some that weren't divulging the information readily. You know, there wasn't, there was the Tony Glover book out. And I mean, I was never, you know, learned anything through books. But yeah, it was a big difference. I mean, because literally, I would take the needle on the record and put it on the first few grooves or first few licks, take it off and try to emulate whoever it was or whatever the lick was. was and nowadays yeah like you say there's just so many sources and there's and the results is there's so many incredible players now I mean it was a very rare thing playing harmonica when I started out. There just wasn't many guys doing it, at least where I was.

SPEAKER_00:

So I believe that what really turned you on to blues as well was seeing Muddy Waters in concert.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I saw Muddy when I was like I remember I wasn't old enough to get in the place, so I wasn't of the drinking age yet, and the drinking age at that time was only 18, so I must have been 17, yeah. Big influence on me, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you remember which harmonica player you had with him?

SPEAKER_01:

It was Jerry Portnoy playing harmonica with Muddy, and then Mojo Buford, who was living in the Twin Cities, and later I became very close with, but I didn't know at that time, was opening the show. So it was a double dose of electric blues harmonica players.

SPEAKER_00:

There's a song on one of your albums called Meet Me on the Coast where you talk about this first time.

SPEAKER_02:

Well,

SPEAKER_00:

clearly you were inspired by the concert to write that song, yeah?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, Muddy Waters would be probably my biggest influence all the way around,

SPEAKER_00:

sure. So you'd moved to Minneapolis and St. Paul at this stage, had you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. We came from a small town in eastern Wisconsin, and my dad got work in the Twin Cities, and I think it was around fifth, sixth grade, it was when I moved to the Twin Cities.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's here you became friends with Linwood Slim?

SPEAKER_01:

Right about this same time that i would have seen muddy belray ballroom was right around the year i graduated from high school 77 78 and i met linwood slim in a club yep he immediately kind of took me under his wing and we had a long association

SPEAKER_00:

so he was playing in the band then already

SPEAKER_01:

he was playing in a bar i had a fake um id because i remember i still wasn't of drinking age but you know everyone looked like a kid you know the drinking age was 18 so you know the they weren't that strict. I remember going to a place called the Clover Club, and Lin Wooden was playing, and he took a break, and I introduced myself, and I had my pockets full of harmonicas, and he said, hey, partner, I'm going to call you up. Get up on the bandstand. So that could be one of the first times I ever played with a real blues band, I would say, that night. I had sat in with bands in bars. Previous to that, I would go over to Wisconsin on the river and those places were real easy to get in and I would sit in with country western bands all the time there was tons of traditional country western bands playing small bars but Linwood Slim's band would be the first time I really played with an electric blues band in a club

SPEAKER_00:

So with a country western were you trying to play that style or were you just playing generally bluesy stuff with them?

SPEAKER_01:

I was playing bluesy stuff with them because there was a couple of those bands that I would actually visit on a regular basis and play the same songs. And I remember they would usually do maybe like a Jimmy Reed type of song. So they would cater to me more. They would do a nice 12 bar and give me something that I could really stretch out on, which was nice.

SPEAKER_00:

And were you playing Jimmy Reed style harmonica then or whatever you knew?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I had no idea what the hell I was doing. I'm sure I wasn't. I might have heard of first position and different positions at that point. But no, I was probably really annoying everybody. But I think I must have played good And so

SPEAKER_00:

Linwood Slim, as you say, he took you under his wing to some extent. So he plays quite a bit of blues chromatic, doesn't he?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's right. I had never seen anybody used to sing and play five long years. Have you ever been mistreated on a chromatic? And that was always very impressive to me because I, yeah, I'd never seen anybody playing blues chromatic before.

SPEAKER_00:

So you play a lot of blues chromatic yourself as well as a lot of diatonic. So is that, did you start playing blues chromatic from an early age, you know, from the assistants from Limwood?

SPEAKER_01:

I guess so. Yeah, you could say that. I mean, it's still not, I still have a lot to learn, but, um, yeah, I guess I would have got a chromatic. I think I remember starting with one of those 10 hole chrome monicas and, um, and then at one point graduating, getting your first big two 80 and, uh, yeah, Linwood would have definitely been a big influence on chromatic for me. Sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So you, you appreciated that different sound that the chromatic gave. Is that what you, you know, what you liked about it just to give you that different feel than the diatonic?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I've, probably, and just the impressiveness of the size and everything, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. And then as we mentioned Mojo Bifford earlier on, he was also in the Twin Cities, got to hang out with him and got to know things from him.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I would have become quite associated and hanging out with George a lot from maybe 1980. You know, through my early 20s, we did a double harmonica thing. I was booking shows and we would play together and I would open the shows and usually stay on the bandstand through George's set as well. Maybe go down for a few songs, but he would keep me up there with him and we would do a two harmonica thing and we played many shows all around the Twin Cities area and some road trips but mostly local gigs.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, fantastic. Did you ever do any recording with him?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, sure did. There is some recordings on Blue Moon and then they had to change the name for legal purposes because there's another label to Blue Loon Records and those are pretty rare collectible records but there's a Mojo Buford CD called and there's some single records on 45 called Harp Slinger, where I and another harmonica player from the Twin Cities by the name of Curtis Blake and Mojo. So this record has three harmonicas on it.

SPEAKER_00:

So Mojo Buffett, he got the nickname Mojo, I believe, from playing Got My Mojo Working with Muddy Waters.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, there was a club that he played. He had a house gig, and it was before my time, before I was getting into clubs. But I guess he had a club that he played as a house band, and people requested that song so much that he just kind of, in the early 60s, started calling himself Mojo, using that as his moniker.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and he was Muddy Waters' harmonica player on and off for quite a few years, wasn't he?

SPEAKER_01:

Many years, yeah, off and on. And Mojo, in my opinion, was a brilliant accompanist. I mean, he really knew how to play a subtle, beautiful backing blues harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you get to meet Muddy Waters yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

No, not personally. I mean, I saw Muddy, I want to say, three times, I can remember for sure, live and in concert. And I saw him with Mojo playing as well, but... No, I never went up and got introduced or anything.

SPEAKER_00:

I know you got your first album out. I've got it down in 1992, the Ready To Go album. Now, this is with the Kid Morgan Blues Band.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And there was some previous stuff I did before that. I had a band called Blues Deluxe in the Twin Cities, and there was a few releases at that time, cassette tapes.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, yeah, so you're with this blues... Look, so to this R.J. Michaud and the Kid Morgan blues band, that was your second blues band, and this is still in the Twin Cities, yeah?

SPEAKER_01:

It is, and we had a house gig, Kid Morgan... And the other members of that band, everybody had a different band, their main band. So this was actually a spinoff band where we played a club every Sunday night called the Five Corners Saloon. We started getting attention. That was quite a night. That was really turned into a big night, Sundays at the Five Corners. And we started getting offers to play with that band. So we took it on the road a little bit. Then Kid had gotten an offer for James Harmon and he moved out here and then the band just kind of disbanded and Percy and everybody had really a different project going so that was just a very short-lived band actually

SPEAKER_00:

Did you tour Europe with this band or was that later on? You

SPEAKER_01:

know my first introduction to Europe was through that record I was contacted by the Mulan Blues Festival in Holland in 1993 and they wanted that band and And that band was not a possibility. You know, Kid was already out here with Harmon and everyone was on their own project. So I just kind of talked them into hiring me and the band that I had to represent that record as good as possible. I was so disappointed because it was my first offer to play in a different country. I remember his name is Bart Billmacher, very nice guy. And I've seen Bart since. And he said, well, you know, we're sorry. We really wanted to, you know, get that band. So they acted you know like they weren't interested and I was so disappointed like two months later they called back and they said the committee decided we'll give you guys a chance so I represented that record without that band actually

SPEAKER_00:

yeah great and did you just play in Holland that time or anywhere else in Europe that time

SPEAKER_01:

was just Holland the first time was just that festival and then a couple of club dates and then I got picked up by an agent in Holland and I did another tour with the kid the first time I came over was not with the kid and then I did another tour with Kid Morgan and we played a lot of dates I remember that mostly Holland and Belgium maybe some in Northern France or something like that

SPEAKER_00:

Something you've done over the years is it a bit more recently you played with a pickup band which basically means you've toured by yourself and then just played with a band that's available on the locations is that it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah it's kind of my preference actually pardon me I've been doing it for years now

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah

SPEAKER_01:

when did you start doing that? I started doing at, you know, it was economical, you know, was the first reason, of course, would be for economics. And it was in Germany, I started playing with B.B. and the Blue Shacks. So that would have been the first time that I started touring with an ensemble that wasn't a band that I put together. And that worked out real well. I started getting offers in different parts of Europe, like up in Scandinavia, and where a band would basically invite me over to play with them. And I found out that it worked, and there's a real good chemistry in that. I really prefer it at this point in my life, and it just makes it so much easier.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, logistically, a lot easier, right? Just having to travel yourself. So at this point then, they were obviously hiring Audrey Michaud, the name, right? And yourself, rather than the band. Is that how you know that they found out about you and you got the gigs

SPEAKER_01:

I guess so

SPEAKER_00:

so how do you approach them playing with a band that you've never played with before

SPEAKER_01:

what I'll typically do is maybe just send a few tunes a few tunes in advance you know I mean I'll vet I mean if someone contacts me that I never heard of before I mean I'm gonna have to hear how they play and sound and everything a little bit before I agree to it you know usually if they're contacting me contacting me. They're obviously blues players and are into that kind of music. So typically, I'll advance a few songs for the band to learn and then just keep it real loose and what I call it shooting from the hip, you know, like a Western gunslinger without a real straight aim and just keep it real spontaneous. And that's what I like when I see a blues performance. I like to see a guy out there kind of on the edge where they're not just just yawning and looking at their watch because they can play this automatically. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I've read something about what you like about it is the fact that, you know, like if you're of the band who's been touring for three years, right? You played the song, you know, a thousand times together, but you like that spontaneity of having to sort of create the moment.

SPEAKER_01:

I think both have advantages and disadvantages, just like anything. But for my particular, what I really, what I really enjoy is, has got a sloppy aspect to it. I like loose blues. I don't like it real tight.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I guess on the back of this, you got picked up by a German label again. I think you released five of your albums through a German label. Is that right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Crosscut Records and my good friend Detlev Hogan up there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And was the first one of those the Rough and Tough album? Yeah. And then Cool Disposition followed and...

SPEAKER_01:

Buff and tough. I remember when he showed me that album cover and he came up with that title. I was like, well, I don't know. He was referring to the music, not me. Yeah, rough and tough and then cool disposition and then West Wind Blowing, which was first released on a small label up in San Mateo, California. Yeah. and meet me on the coast, and he came to play. Is that it? Oh, and then there's a live one from Lutcern, too, that down-home trio.

SPEAKER_00:

you know you're a real full-on blues just you know really grooving bump and grind shuffles uh real real electric chicago in your face you know some great strong harmonica playing that too you know if people haven't checked you out before it's that you know you get some great stuff out there and a lot of a lot of really great instrumentals as well which i always like as a harmonica fan of course cool me too uh quite a few again on chromatic old night cat so

SPEAKER_02:

Goat

SPEAKER_00:

Whiskers is an interesting one. That's played on an F-harp, isn't it? You don't get too many instrumentals played on an F-harp.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think I totally lifted that from a Sonny Boy Williamson stomp off of something like Trumpet.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_01:

I'm trying to play like a Rice Miller trumpet label type of stuff on that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so again, the first album I heard you was on He Came to Play. You're sort of like an alien on the cover on this one, aren't you? Another great instrumental on this one is The Pole.

UNKNOWN:

The Pole

SPEAKER_00:

and that funny one about RJ come and get it which is a short you do quite a few short sort of instrumentals and that's an illustration of one of those isn't it

SPEAKER_01:

I can tell you the story on that I'll make it short on RJ come and get it we were totally no plan literally we were packing up and the guy that was funding the session and had the label he stuck his head in the studio and he's like come on there's a little bit more tape here give us you know and the drummer was already we were all Just one take as well? Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Bye.

SPEAKER_00:

They're often the best, aren't they? Those little short ones.

SPEAKER_01:

I always love to save time for just, yeah, just throwing stuff out there and just real spontaneous. Just going, here we go, or whatever, without telling anybody anything and see what you get.

SPEAKER_00:

And so, again, a bit like the pickup band, you know, are you instructing the band about the structure of the song when you're doing that? Are you just literally starting to play and, you know, they're picking up on it? Both.

SPEAKER_01:

A lot of guys you know you can just you don't have to say anything you don't even have to tell the key you just go out there and kind of play harmonic a little bit and then they start playing along and then they find the key and I won't even say nothing I'll just go and the band is in so yeah and I'll just do intros and if you just have intros or a good pickup line I'll just set it up for the band. I'll just make it up as I kind of go along a lot of times.

SPEAKER_00:

During these album releases we've talked through, you moved to California I think in 1998. What prompted you to move out to San Francisco, was it?

SPEAKER_01:

For love, man. My girl came out here and then I came out a while afterwards. She got a job out here. I was living in the Twin Cities. She was out here a bit and asked me if i wanted to come out join her and i says sure

SPEAKER_00:

and so out there of course is a fantastic harmonica scene and then we got some some amazing players kim wills from rob piazza many more what is it you think about that west coast scene for the harmonica

SPEAKER_01:

well yeah all those guys i was i was influenced big time of course by rod kim hummel bill clark and uh of course all those guys were big disciples of george harmonica smith and there's there's a lot more guys than that I mean that's just those are the big names at the top of the list but there's so many great harmonica players out here now yeah what can I say I'm in good competition which I love

SPEAKER_00:

so did you start you know hanging out with any of these guys or you know start picking things up from them or were you all just quite separate

SPEAKER_01:

only through record and that would be with anybody even back to the days of my early days with Linwood Slim I never really sat down with anybody and had any kind of instruction. I mean, other than Linwood made me aware of tongue blocking. And, you know, and that was it, just making me aware of this. But other than that, just from listening to records, but no, I never went up to anybody and tried to pick their mind. The only thing is in recent years, I asked Kim one time about this like real rapid fire lick that he can do. And he does it. Junior Wells does it. I think I used to do it before I learned how to tongue block. It's a draw thing. It's a diddly diddly diddly thing on the draw that I can't get. And I remember Kim saying it's not a tongue block thing. And I said, I knew it wasn't. And then I remember asking like Magic Dick about how he plays those high note first position blows. And kind of, you know, getting some real precise verbal direction from those guys on that. But other than that, through my whole life, I never really sat down and asked anybody how to do something.

SPEAKER_00:

And so when you went out to California, did you then set up a new band or were you still basically playing kind of pickup bands?

SPEAKER_01:

I was in with Rusty's Inn as soon as I came to town. My first gig was with Rusty's Inn, Richard Innes, Larry Taylor and the piano player Steve Lucky opening up for unbelievable jazz singer Jimmy Scott. And that was my first gig. The week I got into the Bay Area, I was in that band playing at the Stern Grove Park to thousands of people. So I spent quite a bit of time in the Rusty Zinn band playing all around Bay Area. And then Rusty kind of changed the format and I went off and started doing gigs with other players.

SPEAKER_00:

And were you the singer in that band? No, no, I was a harmonica player. So you have done the Sideman thing. Yeah. Mostly you've been the main singer, yeah? Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_02:

Hello, baby. I saw your last name.

SPEAKER_00:

What about the singing, the vocals, and putting that together with the harmonica? How critical is that to be the band leader?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's kind of everything, I think, at this point. And yeah, singing has been a very, very difficult journey. It never came natural for me. But I realized that that's the role you have to take if you actually want to try to be a working professional harmonica player. You're a pretty lucky guy if you got a job as a harmonica player. You don't have to be the one calling the shots and getting the gigs and singing the songs.

SPEAKER_00:

You say that's a decision you took quite early on, is it to think, right, I've got to be the singer. And then did you sort of force yourself to sing? You didn't really feel like you naturally we're great at singing exactly

SPEAKER_01:

it was hard and embarrassing for many many years you know you just kind of learn what to use what you got instead of trying to sound like somebody else and all of that

SPEAKER_00:

but I mean it's funny because quite a lot of players on here say exactly that thing that you said which is they don't think they're very good singers but they sort of you know they force themselves to do it where I think you know most of you guys including you you know do have a good voice you know so but it's something you really feel you had to work at and you know to get better and like you say it took you several years yeah so you'd recommend people persevere right absolutely absolutely I mean

SPEAKER_01:

you know the journey is so long so you don't remember a lot of the struggles in the early times but I mean musical struggles and now some of the keys that I like couldn't sing at all in when I was younger now have turned into some of my favorite keys to sing it it's like anything it's it's just hours you will get better at it but it takes a long time and

SPEAKER_00:

again it's something you've just learned yourself right you never had singing lessons or anything no just finishing off on your album so you had three more albums which got maybe some more recognition you sort of got in the in the top 50 in the living blues albums on the knowledge you can't get in college and make it good in 2009 2012 were they more commercially successful than the others or

SPEAKER_01:

well I mean commercially successful I mean might be a few hundred more copies sold one in the other but Knowledge You Can't Get in College did get quite a bit of airplay on XM Radio over here, which is a subscription radio. So I did get a good, some royalties off of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's all kind of school-based, isn't it? You've got the song Too Cool for School.

SPEAKER_03:

¶¶ I'm

SPEAKER_01:

switching harps on that. I'm playing a low and a high F sharp.

SPEAKER_00:

Cool. And then Make It Good, all the songs on that album are all originals, yeah? So these songs that you wrote yourself? Yeah. Yeah, great. And The Frozen Pickle, another great instrumental.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah. so

SPEAKER_00:

How do you come up with an instrumental

SPEAKER_01:

on the harp? You know, what I'll do is I just dig through my record collections when it's time to make a record. I'm an avid music listener, first of all. I listen to music pretty much constantly. And I'll just listen to music, and then when I get in the mindset, like, well, I guess it's time to start trying to figure out material for a record, I just kind of listen with open ears. And if something catches me and it might be, oh, just a rhythm part that one of the instruments might be doing on some song where there's, you know, five, six, seven instruments on there. But it might be just some little part that the piano is doing or something. And then I'll tune in or the drum beat even. And I'll kind of tune in on that instrument in the song. And I'll just kind of imagine if that line is kind of the dominant rhythm. You know, so because sometimes songs, someone's playing a counter rhythm with inside the melody. So I, you know, I just steal little bits and kind of alter them a little bit. And it's mostly spontaneous, Neil. Those instrumentals are just grabbing guys, getting the best guys I can for sessions and just kind of giving them a vague idea of the feel and then just let the tape roll, cut it a few times and take the best one.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yeah, there's some really good songs in that album. That Papa Saint special is a good one. It's a Sonny Terry style playing from you.

UNKNOWN:

And...

SPEAKER_00:

Arambula is an interesting one. What's that one about?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, that's just a made up word because I love gibberish words. And that's pretty much, that groove is pretty much lifted right out of the Albert Collins playbook, man.

UNKNOWN:

So

SPEAKER_00:

And then I think it's your last album, Everything I Need, from 2014. Actually, it's not.

SPEAKER_01:

I put out a record since then called I Hope You're Satisfied. I Hope You're Satisfied It's on Bluebeat Records, which if I can send out a plug to somebody would be Bluebeat Music, who is a great record maker and distributor up in the Bay Area. But I have a compilation of unreleased material from the last five or six CDs. So I have a new CD I'll call it. I hope you're satisfied. And I think there's 13, 14 takes on there. but they are all previously recorded. recorded unreleased songs from other sessions actually

SPEAKER_00:

so that the everything i need album in 2014 was a self-produced album from you yeah correct

SPEAKER_01:

and and i am working i have a a whole new album of material written of originals and um i was intending i already cut it solo because i'm doing guitar and harp rack

SPEAKER_00:

yeah i was going to ask you about the guitar and heart right so there's a there's a nice clip i saw of you playing the the racket by greg human and i I had Greg Heumann on the podcast a while ago and I talked about the racket. So playing guitar and horn and moniker and a rack now, yeah? I'm trying. Is that a recent thing for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it is. I mean, I certainly have been messing around with it for some years, but as far as actually going out and playing a gig like that, that's pretty new. Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think one of the challenges with playing harmonic on the rack is, of course, that you don't sound as good on the harmonic as you do when you play, you know, without any other instruments, right? Naturally, because you're doing more than one thing at once, right? So is that something that you know, you're conscious of and you're thinking, yeah, maybe I'll just play the harmonica by itself. But, you know, you want to get it up to scratch. You think it's worthwhile getting it up to scratch as well?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I do. And I want to say something about playing, for me anyway, is... When I'm playing guitar and rack harmonica, I play completely different harmonica. I play in a way that I wouldn't actually be able to do if I was just holding the harmonica by itself and playing the harp alone. What I'm finding is like doing a first position thing is I kind of like I sure like to do these kind of like you know rag type of like Sonny Boy One does that You know, I must have had a wonderful time last night. At least they tell me I did. One of those kind of rag type of things. But when I play that with a first position and I'm playing guitar, I can really get around on the harp, whereas I wouldn't be able to play first position like that if I wasn't playing guitar. So it's kind of weird. I mean, it's like, wow, I'm really playing first position when I'm playing guitar. But if I just go to play in first position when I'm not playing guitar, it's back to that more you know chicago-y little walter first position with jimmy reed in there or whatever but but i i can really seem to fly first position when i'm playing it when i'm accompanying myself on guitar it's pretty cool and i sing so much more relaxed when i'm playing guitar that resonance of the guitar seems to like help keep your voice and pitch and stuff

SPEAKER_00:

so you're intending to what to release an album with you playing solo

SPEAKER_01:

I am. That's my intentions, but I don't think the whole thing will be solo. I think it's going to be mostly me playing guitar and rack harp, and then a few of them will have some kind of skeleton accompaniment, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Is it right? I heard you talking about you were shot at once at

SPEAKER_01:

a gig. I can't believe I'm laughing. I guess I am laughing because it did happen. Yeah. Same night I met my wife. It wasn't her, was it? Good one, good one. No, it wasn't. It was, yeah, on the way to a gig at that Five Corners Saloon and I was just about to go in the door and I got held up by a guy and, well... Make a long story short, I live, so I'm here to tell about it today, but I fled, and the guy shot at me a couple of times and didn't hit me, and I made it up on a bandstand, and then I looked down there, and I've seen some twinkling eyes, and the rest is history.

SPEAKER_00:

So you've also played with various other bands, yeah, as a sideman a lot of the time, you know, on other albums. So you play with Trickbag. Is that Trickbag in Scandinavia?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. It's Tommy and those guys. Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And you've also played on these Blues Harmonica Meltdown albums.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, you mean on Mark Hummel's Blues Harmonica? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So how did they come about? Is it like a gig you all go and play together, or is an album recorded separately?

SPEAKER_01:

No, those are those from the famous Mark Hummel Blues Harmonica blowouts that he tours once a year. So those are both ones that were just recorded actually live at one of the blowouts.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah!

SPEAKER_00:

You've also played, I think, on Dave Barrett's Mel Bay books.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm in a couple of Mel Bay books, but yeah, I know David has me sampling, I think like a turnaround sample on an instructional CD that comes in one of the books. And I remember he sent it to me and I think it's a beginner harmonica book. And I remember I was laughing because I think the title was, it doesn't get any easier than this. And I looked at it and I was like, oh my god i have no idea what the heck they're talking about

SPEAKER_00:

Are you listed in the encyclopedia of the harmonica?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm honored, but I don't know how that came about even. I didn't solicit it.

SPEAKER_00:

You just got in there, great. Well, you deserve it. You do do some teaching. You teach, I think, sort of harmonica camps, and you've taught at John Gindick's harmonica camps quite a few years, haven't you?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I did. I'm retired from doing the camps anymore. Yeah, I have a lot of instruction experience in my own way. I mean, I'm totally non theoretical so you know i don't ever talk about scales or or notes or anything it's all about just feel playing and that kind of thing teaching is a whole nother thing i mean i that that i've gotten better at it i have to give it up for the guys that are really good harmonica instructors because it's a very difficult instrument to instruct

SPEAKER_00:

a question i ask each time rj is if you had 10 minutes to practice what would you spend those 10 minutes doing

SPEAKER_01:

tone you know getting a good sound and for me again it's all about the song and the music more so than the instrument yeah tone and feel you know the listener and that's what moves me the most too is playing space instead of just concentrating on the notes you can play you can also concentrate on the notes to leave out too

SPEAKER_00:

you know just a little bit more on tone then so what would you do to try and work on your tone on harmonica?

SPEAKER_01:

Just to make sure that you are not fooling yourself with sound. The tongue-blocking thing, if you're a beginner and you're not tongue-blocking, that would definitely be the thing you would want to really spend some time on so you've got that, so that snaps in.

SPEAKER_00:

What's unique about the harmonica with tone? I think a lot of us harmonica players see tone as the Holy Grail of playing the harmonica. compared to maybe like other instruments like guitar where i don't know if it's tone so important on on guitars it is on harmonica

SPEAKER_01:

well i think a tone on a harmonica is probably much more difficult to achieve than it is on you know a guitar hitting a string or you know or plunking a note on a piano i mean obviously or you know hitting a drum skin but obviously those instruments you have to be able to get a good tone as well but with the harmonica you know you're using your body and you know your chest cavity and your lung capacity to help form that tone in your throat and your mouth there's so many body working parts compared to just your fingers so

UNKNOWN:

¶¶ Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so to really make sure you're getting a good, deep, full tone instead of that nasally... Like I said, instead of that... You want the... That low tone, that open sound.

SPEAKER_00:

You mentioned, obviously, tongue blocking being an important part of that sound, getting that bigger cavity. So are you... more full-on tongue-blocking? Did he do much puckering at all?

SPEAKER_01:

For me, the tongue-blocking is the thing. But that being said, I've heard guys that don't tongue-block that can get a big, big, deep sound. whatever it means it takes to get that sound. But a lot of people, it seems on harmonica, they can go for a long time kind of maybe fooling themselves or really not hearing that they're not getting that tone. I guess record yourself, compare yourself to the people you like and see if you can try to emulate getting a deeper tone.

SPEAKER_00:

So we'll move on now to the last section to talk about gear. So I believe you're a Hohner endorser.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

So how did that come about?

SPEAKER_01:

I got the endorsement years and years ago just by sending them... I mean, it was in the late 80s or something like that. It was all done by mail then. Yeah, I just contacted them and I became a owner in Dorsey and I've just kept up with it ever since. And I still play, you know, Marine Band harmonicas. That's my instrument of choice.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Any particular flavors of the Marine Bands you like nowadays?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, I get most of my stuff. I mean, you know, I'm playing Felisco harps and Spires harps, Richard Slay harps, and I get some from Deke. So I'm mostly playing my customized marine bands and uh yeah just the the stock marine band and the new ones new ones are good

SPEAKER_00:

the custom ones are they provided via hone or are you getting those directly from from joe flisco and the other guys you mentioned there directly from the customizers sure i mean i've never played a joe flisco monica obviously lots of people have talked about on about them on here and they're like this amazing i mean you know what is it about those really well customized harps you think you obviously think it's worth it paying for them yeah

SPEAKER_01:

well for First of all, you know, you're going to buy one harmonica and when you do flatten out a reed, you can send it back for repair. So in the long run, you know, the initial cost of the first one is going to be quite a bit more than just a regular harmonica. But in the long run, it's actually cheaper if you're playing all the time. I completely changed my playing when I started playing custom harmonicas because You know, like Joe says, that's a very common thing is I was wiping out the harps because they are so much easier to play. You can play much softer. And it was a learning, a little bit of a learning curve, holding back and realizing that you didn't have to play so hard. So it's actually helped my playing, being able to play these instruments because I play much more controlled and much lighter and not not with as much velocity to get the same results.

SPEAKER_00:

And do you ever try customizing harmonicas yourself?

SPEAKER_01:

No, no, I'm not into it.

SPEAKER_00:

What about a favorite key of diatonic? I think you read somewhere that you like to carry an A harmonica with you at all times. Is this still the case?

SPEAKER_01:

I think that's pretty much the standard harp that all guys stick in their pocket, an A or a C harp when they're going to go out on town. How about you, Neil?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's got to be the A, hasn't it? What about any different tunings do you ever use any of those on the diatonic well um lately i've been doing

SPEAKER_01:

this two chord thing with a uh a minor harp i had ordered some harps from honer and this is a few years ago and they mistook and i picked one up and i was like what the heck is this and then i looked at it and it was a uh a d minor and i remember years ago having those they were called orchestra harps or something like that and i'm thinking wow this isn't what i want and then all of a sudden I played it so it was too late to like send it back so I just started messing around with it and so I do this kind of two chord first position minor gypsy east you know baltic sounding type of groove that's pretty fun that's about it though with the different tunings I have a cowboy tuned one haven't really used it too much I do hey good looking with it but I haven't done it on gigs yet as an instrumental

SPEAKER_00:

is that with the the raised five draw yeah and what about chromatics which chromatics do you like to play and then 12 holes 16 holes as well

SPEAKER_01:

typically you know i carry

SPEAKER_00:

the you know the big

SPEAKER_03:

one

SPEAKER_00:

chromonica playing the 16 holes are you playing a lot of octaves with that sure you know i mean i will

SPEAKER_01:

do a george smith type of Chords, yeah. Both, I go between that and playing more single hole, you know, Little Walter style, just third position.

SPEAKER_00:

And on the diatonic, do you play many chords? different positions? I mean, she talks about playing some third position, third position, third position, and obviously second position. Do you venture much beyond those?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't. I'm going to try now that I'm doing more rack stuff, but I haven't really as of yet. Mostly, you know, mostly cross harp. I do like first position. I think I play third position pretty well, but I don't use it much to tell you the truth.

SPEAKER_00:

And what about any

SPEAKER_01:

overblows? Nope. I've tried tried to do them i've caught them by mistake but i mean i think you have to have your uh you do want your your your your harmonica gapped your reed gap i think for that as well yeah i'm not interested in them actually no at this at this point anyways

SPEAKER_00:

so what about equipment wise what what sort of amplifiers you like to use

SPEAKER_01:

backline if they're you know good a good you know reissue basement if there is there's one there uh good just any good fender tube amp i've got a collection of uh several Yeah, yeah. So have you had

SPEAKER_00:

these amps modified for harmonica or you just play them from stock?

SPEAKER_01:

Mm, play them from stock. And actually I prefer them from stock. I'm not... a fan usually of harmonica voiced amplifiers, to tell you the truth. I want them to be clean. If I'm playing through an amp, I almost want it to have like a, imagine like a tube PA, like you're playing through a Shure Vocal Master from 1968. So it's warm, but still clear. That overdriven sound has its place, but I like it to sound like a harmonica too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I noticed on some YouTube videos of you, you are playing through a PA quite a lot then. Is that... you go for that clean sound then more these days or

SPEAKER_01:

well and that would be by um necessity or just from traveling and playing with pickup bands and not being able to bring well your amplifier with you so you have to be able to play through anything that's really important i think that's

SPEAKER_00:

So you don't take any of these pedals when you're traveling, you know, this kind of distortion, you know, kind of driven pedals you can get for harmonica. No,

SPEAKER_01:

no, no. I try to, I mean, I got to travel as stealthily as possible. That's the biggest concern when you do travel is how to get as condensed as you possibly can. So I think it's real good for a guy to be forced into that situation because you learn a lot about, How do you be effective without your crutch, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. What about any small amplifiers? You said that maybe if you're playing a bit more locally, is a small amplifier something you might use?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, depending on the drummer, you know, but that Gibson GA-20 with a 12-inch, that 15-watt size amp, that's what I like to record with, is a Gibson GA-20. I've got a couple of those. That's kind of instant little Walter.

SPEAKER_00:

Microphone-wise, are you you do carry a microphone with you on your travel?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, typically I'll bring a, you know, an ecstatic mic or for a while I was carrying Greg's. I do find that that Shure element does seem to be more adaptable with a variety of amps. But typically my go-to mic is an ecstatic JT30. yeah so a

SPEAKER_00:

crystal

SPEAKER_01:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

and uh yeah i think i did see you playing through one of greg human's uh wooden mics yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah i have a really nice one it's got a real good black label uh sure element in there

SPEAKER_00:

oh they're beautiful aren't they they're so beautiful did you did you choose the design yourself

SPEAKER_01:

no that was greg greg has been very very good to me so yeah

SPEAKER_00:

have you got your initials in the grill

SPEAKER_01:

yep yep i didn't ask for it it just came that way yeah

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and what about when you're recording any particular setup when you're you mentioned the amp anything else when you're recording

SPEAKER_01:

no not really because I just use like a studio where I where I know the engineer is is on the same page as I am so they can help me with direction as far as mic placement and all that kind of thing so

SPEAKER_00:

great and so yeah final question then RJ thanks so much for the time today so what have you been doing over the pandemic and you know now you're coming out of it it sounds like you're getting out playing already? Has things picked up for you nicely?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the calendar is starting to come back, thank God. And I had a double whammy back to back and I'm letting you in on this and your listeners as I had throat cancer and then just as I was recovering from that, the pandemic hit. So my calendar got wiped out and then wiped out but now it's all coming back again.

SPEAKER_00:

Great, so you're all recovered now and still able to sing with that are you? Yeah man actually

SPEAKER_01:

my voice is better in a strange way.

SPEAKER_00:

They've improved it yeah. Are you just playing locally at the moment or are you looking to travel abroad at any point?

SPEAKER_01:

Well I have a date with the Blues Heaven Festival in Denmark next November and some Finnish dates so but I have a lot of dates I just got back in from a festival I played with Junior Watson in the middle of the country into Des Moines, Iowa. We have a big show I'm going to plug that I'm helping put together with Rod Piazza and Dennis Gruenling and Tex Nakamura that was with War for a long time and John Gendick who lives here in Ventura. May 15th we're doing Ventura Harmonica Festival here in Ventura, California.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks so much for joining me today and great to talk to you. Hey Neil, thank you so much, man. That's episode 56. Thanks so much for listening and thanks so much for RJ Michaud. A big thanks to Adrian McLoone, Matthias Ernest, and a special big thanks to Philip Withers for helping for the donations, which help with the running cost of the podcast. Remember everyone to check out the harmonicaappyhour.com website. And it's over to RJ to play us out with the In-N-Out Boogie.

UNKNOWN:

...... Thank you.