Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast
The podcast is sponsored by Seydel harmonicas. Check out their great range of products at www.seydel1847.com.
If you would like to make a voluntary contribution to help keep the podcast running then please use this link: https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour.
Visit the main podcast webpage at: https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com/
Contact: happyhourharmonicapodcast@gmail.com
Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast
Gerhard Mueller interview
Gerhard Mueller joins me on episode 59.
Gerhard is the Product Manager for Hohner harmonicas, a role he has held for 28 years. His father worked as a gardener at the Hohner factory in Trossingen, and as well as getting his son harmonica lessons, he even had a hand in helping Gerhard land his dream job at Hohner.
Gerhard talks us through the fascinating history of Hohner and how it was established as the leading harmonica brand in the world having sold over 1 billion harmonicas since the company began. Gerhard tells us all about Hohner’s harmonica offerings as well as some of the accessories offered and the yearly events hosted in Trossingen.
Gerhard is also a fine chromatic player himself, having been part of the Hohnerklang Orchestra in Trossingen for over 25 years, he also regularly performs in his harmonica quartet Harmonicamento.
Links:
Hohner website:
https://www.hohner.de
Trossingen harmonica museum:
https://www.hohner.de/en/community/harmonica-museum
Marine Band 125 in 2021:
https://www.hohner.de/#youtube-1
Harmonicamento quartet:
http://www.harmonicamento.de/
Toots Thielemans 100th birthday concert:
https://www.bozar.be/en/calendar/toots-thielemans-100th-anniversary-official-concert
Other Toots 100th birthday celebrations in Brussels:
https://www.thebulletin.be/toots-100-brussels-launches-centenary-celebration-jazz-giants-birth
Hohner endorsees:
https://www.hohner.de/en/community/artists
CShop for parts:
http://www.hohner-cshop.de/en/home/
Harmonica Masters Workshop, happening in June 2022:
https://www.harmonica-masters.de/en/
Videos:
Sheng harmonica:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWt4mf3whxw
Harpin’ By The Sea Hohner presentation (including Trossingen Factory Tour):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuRqqT_eSIM
Harmonicamento at SPAH in 2011:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fmxly46ewM
Steve Baker discussing the HB52 microphone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a9V8Grhmr4
Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com
Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB
Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ
Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away
Gerhard Muller joins me on episode 59. Gerhard is the product manager for Hohner Harmonicas, a role that he has held for 28 years. His father worked as a gardener at the Hohner factory in Trossingen, and as well as getting his son harmonica lessons, he even had a hand in helping Gerhard land his dream job at Hohner. Gerhard talks us through the fascinating history of Hohner and how it was established as the leading harmonica brand in the world, having sold over 1 billion harmonicas since the company began. Gerhard tells us all about Holner's harmonica offerings as well as some of the accessories offered and the yearly events hosted in Trottingen. Gerhard is also a fine chromatic player himself, having been part of the Holner Klang Orchestra in Trottingen for over 25 years. He also regularly performs in his harmonica quartet, Harmonica Mento. So hello Gerhard Muller and welcome to the podcast. Neil, thank you so much for the invitation. So you are the product manager for Hohner Harmonicas in Germany.
SPEAKER_00:That's
SPEAKER_01:true,
SPEAKER_00:yes. I've been doing this job for many, many years already. Great. So
SPEAKER_01:when
SPEAKER_00:did you start this role? I'm an old guy already. No, not too old. Yes, I'm right now 57 years. I started my career at the Hohner companies and this was in 1984. So this year, that will be the 38th year as a member of the Hohner staff. And I started my career of course, as a kind of what? Businessman. And then as I'm a harmonica player myself, I then went to the product management of Hohner. And this is already many, many years before. I think this year could be 27, 28 years of product management for Hohner Harmonica.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. So yeah, a long history there. And is it right that your father also worked at the Hohner factory? Yeah, that's true.
SPEAKER_00:My father, he was a gardener, you know, the Hohner company. I mean, they had, this was a family owned company and all the sons of the founder, Matthias Hohner. They have big houses here in Trossingen and the area around Trossingen. And my father was the gardener. So he prepared all the surroundings of these nice villas. And of course, also the surrounding of the Hohner company itself. My father worked at the company also around 30 years. Yes, that's true. I have a long family experience with the Hohner company here in Trossingen.
SPEAKER_01:But he didn't influence you getting the job at Hohner yourself?
SPEAKER_00:To be honest, he did. Yeah, because I really was on the search. So what should I do after my school? I'm born in Trussingen because Hohner is still one of the biggest factories and I was also influenced definitely. You start playing a musical instrument of Hohner when you are in school and I start playing the harmonica because my father also played the harmonica when he was young. He played in an orchestra. I did the same thing. I started playing the harmonica already in the age of seven years. I went to school and everybody played a either the harmonica or the accordion or the melodica. Some of them are also playing the recordos from Hohner.
SPEAKER_01:Fantastic. So it's probably worth at this point just touching on some of the history of Hohner. So I believe that Matthäus Hohner founded the factory there in Trossingen in 1857. Right. Was it originally for harmonicas or was it accordions or both?
SPEAKER_00:No, he started his business with harmonicas. So his sons, he had five sons, and they implemented the accordion in 1992, 1994. I'm not sure about this date exactly, but they were sons, they implemented the accordions to the business of Hohner. Matthias Hohner, he started his business definitely with harmonicas in 1857.
SPEAKER_01:So, obviously, Hohner is a really critical part of the history of the harmonica, and a lot of people, obviously, associate the marine band with being the iconic harmonica, certainly the iconic diatonic harmonica, and all the blues players used to play marine bands. Do you know, how did Hohner get into this position to, you know, sort of become the harmonica of choice back then?
SPEAKER_00:If you go to Drossingen, we also have the biggest harmonica in museum here with a really fantastic exhibition. And there, of course, you also can check out the history of Hohner, but also all the other brands, especially located here in Schrodinger. Hohner was not the only manufacturer at the period when the company was established. There were several other harmonica manufacturers. There was a company called Weiss and Messner and Koch. And Hohner himself, Matthias Hohner, he had a good friend, and this was Christian Messner. And Christian Messner was already producing harmonica before Horner and Trostingen. And they were good friends. And Matthias Horner, he very often went over to Christian Messner and asked him, well, what are you doing? Oh, here, I'm just preparing harmonicas. Oh, that's interesting. How does it work? Then he figured out how Christian Messner did the harmonicas. So he was more or less, Matthias Horner was more or less a kind of spy. And he checked out how is Christian Messner doing his harmonicas. And then he started himself the business and started preparing the harmonicas and found out oh, wow, there's a really big business I can do afterwards, depending how to produce the harmonicas. And Christian Messner, he was the guy who made the harmonicas, a lot of handcrafting things, which is still here also in the company today. But Matthias Hohner, he found out, well, he should do it a little more easy with more specialized machines to produce harmonicas even faster. And of course, even less expensive. And then he grabbed more and more market share because he produced harmonicas very high class harmonicas and to a lower price level like all the other competitors in Trussingen, Messner, Koch, Weiss. So after the period of time, Messner, he bought Koch, he bought Weiss. So he was the only one who's producing high quality harmonicas in Trussingen. So this was how Matthias Hauner started his business.
SPEAKER_01:So why is it that Germany has become such a central place for manufacturing harmonicas? Obviously, I talked to Seidel in the last episode and Hauner, very well established.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. I can't give you the right answer. I know, of course, and this is what Seidl is announcing, that they were established in 1847, so even 10 years older than Hohner Company. But I know that especially in the area where Seidl is located, in Klingenthal, there is a big business of musical instruments, a long history to do there. Maybe this is one reason why the harmonica industry started in Germany to influence the whole world. Of course, the original harmonica, pre-harmonica, was a Schengen. Yeah, the Chinese version. Chinese, right. But I'm really not sure why the industry for harmonica is so strong established in Germany. Possibly because of the history of musical instrument manufacturing in Klingenthal. So this could be one reason.
SPEAKER_01:Of course, there are other ones too these days. But yeah, obviously very strong history in Germany there. So the Marine Band, which we touched on a little bit there, it's had its 125th anniversary in 21. That became the go-to choice for many blues players, certainly in America, didn't it? So you obviously got your distribution right in America at that time
SPEAKER_00:yeah I mean what is still the case we have a very big success and also big business in the US I mean there are a lot of harmonica players of course blues players country players so we sell a lot of our tenor diatonic harmonicas into the US biggest market still for us the marine band especially you mentioned that we had last year the 125th anniversary of the harmonica and we tried to do be very close to the real or original marine band 1896 so we did the cover plates especially the so-called mickey mouse cover flaps so that they are very close to the original and also the coloring of pervert comb was very close to the original this is really the icon as you mentioned a lot of these old traditional blues players sunny terry sonny
UNKNOWN:Thank you.
SPEAKER_00:They played this harmonica because this was, yes, the only one which Hohner produced at that time. Of course, there were some others, but especially this one was an icon because of the wooden comb, of course, starting the production in the late 1900s. There was, of course, no plastic combs available because plastic was not established that much compared to these times. But Hohner, yes, they started producing the Marine Band in 1896. And this was when Jakob Hohner, one son of the founder, Matthias Hohner, he made the patent especially for the cover plate shape. And this was in 1896. So therefore, this is a reason why we still call the Marine Band 1896, 1896, because of the patent, which then also happened and also agreed so that we have real patent for the cover plate shape, especially.
SPEAKER_01:So the Marine Band came out in 1896, as you say, Hohner was established and founded in 1857. So was the design of the 10-hole diatonic, as we can know it. When did that come about? Was it started with the Marine Band or was it before then?
SPEAKER_00:No, this must be before. I'm not sure exactly about when this ten-hole diatonic harmonica, especially the tonal layout with the ten holes, was established. This was not honoured, as I mentioned. Christian Messner, he also produced these kind of harmonicas before and possibly also, I mean, there are some names in the scenes that say, well, there was Mr. Richter, because we also sometimes say not ten Yeah, so Mr. Richter,
SPEAKER_01:as you say, the Richter tuning, which we're all very familiar with, with the ten-hole diatonics, he was a German, right, as you've just said, yeah? Yeah, yeah. You know, I hear many times discussions that that layout was selected because it suited kind of German folk music at the time. That's
SPEAKER_00:true. Yeah, I mean, you play normally, I mean, after maybe in the 20s, century, there was implemented then the harmonica, the Richter tuning to the blues, but normally originally you play the harmonica like this. I have just here a C major harmonica. Can I play a little bit of German folk music?
SPEAKER_01:Yes, please. So it was a complete accident then that this Richter tuning just works so well for blues. I think, you know, we're all kind of blown away by the fact that it was a kind of accident. So as far as you know, it wasn't designed intentionally to be able to bend the notes that suited blues so well in second position.
SPEAKER_00:Absolutely not. No, because this was, yes, a traditional folk music instrument, especially with this tonal layout, because you can play, especially in three holes, the chords, nice chords. This was a C major harmonica, so you can play all over the whole ten... arranged C major chords, and on the three holes in the low end, you can play them G7 chords. And then this was, play the melody in the middle part of the instrument, and then accompany yourself with nice chords on the low end of the instrument. This was the original intention.
SPEAKER_01:It's like some sort of magic coincidence, isn't it, that this just works so well for playing blues and other things, but obviously particularly blues with the diatonic is so strong, yeah. You know, great bit of a history there of Holner, and also, as you say, other harmonica manufacturers in Germany in the early days there so as far as you know was the harmonica always a big seller even from 1857 you know obviously the harmonica is relatively cheap instrument to buy less so these days with the better quality harmonicas but was the sort of business model you know sell as many as possible because they're relatively cheap and you know almost everyone can own one right
SPEAKER_00:yeah I mean this is the reason yes you know I mean harmonica was really a very cheap harmonica if you see old advertising from Horner there was a big display of oh the harmonica is just 27 So this was, of course, many, many years before. But the harmonica was a cheap instrument and you can play music there. And yes, you have lonely evenings, you sit at home, nothing to do. So you can play simply melodies on a cheap musical instrument and you can play great music on this musical instrument. So therefore, this was when Hohner really started to produce many, many millions of harmonicas. We count since the beginning when Hohner started to produce the instruments at least many, many more than 1 billion harmonicas Hohner produced over this long tradition.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. You mentioned Hohner obviously got a very strong presence in the US as well. We get lots of listeners from the US. So what is the relationship with Hohner US? How does that work? Oh, pretty
SPEAKER_00:well. We had a long history and we also have fantastic colleagues over there. They do a brilliant job to introduce new products and of course also sell the existing model range. This is really fantastic because they're also some of them, of course, are musicians. They know the scene and they also went a lot to special exhibitions, to special events like the spa convention every year. They do a really very good job to sell the Horner-branded harmonicas and, of course, also the other musical instruments from Horner, just like the accordions, because there's a big Latino scene, especially in Colombia, where we sell a lot of these diatonic accordions over there. I mean, this is not only harmonicas, very strong in the U.S. market, but also with accordions, especially in the middle part of Americas So Columbia, we sell a lot of diatonic accordions.
SPEAKER_01:But all the manufacturing, the factory is in Germany.
SPEAKER_00:While we are producing, let me say it this way, the high class models are all produced, of course, here in Trossingen, all the parts like reed plates, like copper plates, like some of the combs, the entry level harmonicas. We also have very good cooperation partners in Asian countries and they producing with original Hohner materials or German materials. They are producing some of the reed plates over there. there, which means nailing, riveting, adjusting, tuning. And then these replays come back to Germany. We are doing the income inspection of all these replays before we then do the end assembly, then the real whole harmonica. So everything is controlled and also from quality level absolutely identical more or less with harmonica replays produced here in Trossingen itself. Important is that we also have a team of quality staff members who went always over to our facilities which we have located in Asia to control the quality, are the tools still in good shape, are the people still the same people who we have trained in the beginning and so there is a lot of things which we are doing to ensure that the quality of parts which are produced in Asia have the real honour quality level which we need of course also then to have the high quality honours which everybody loves so much.
SPEAKER_01:You did a presentation, an online presentation to the uk's harping by the sea festival in 2021 and a really fantastic presentation i'll put a link onto that onto the podcast page so people can check that out there's a factory tour in that which really gives a really great insight you know you see some of the some of the machines that you're using your factory there so yeah i definitely encourage people to check out that video and really get a good view uh you know video view of your factory and other things that you that you're doing there at home which is a really great presentation so well done on that so about you so you're the um obviously you're the product manager for harmonica so what does that involve
SPEAKER_00:well this involve of course a lot of things this is not only to say well I'm responsible for grab ideas from musicians from the market side so I'm very close in contact with a lot of musicians worldwide and also of course with our dealers because Hona has a worldwide dealer network I grab all the information there they are looking for special models they are looking for special tunings they would like to have different colors and and and so this is the collecting of ideas to then establish and do the development of new pro This is one task. The other task is, of course, check out the quality of the instruments. So this is also quality control is one big task. And of course, also then to support our sales team to do special harmonica lessons and to instructions to our dealers so that they know what they are selling every day. So that if you go as a musician into the shop, you definitely get the correct model you are searching for. Not that you'd like to have a blues harp and then you go out of the shop and got an echo harp. like a tremolo harmonica for folk music. So of course, this is also very important. And also to support our marketing team here with a lot of materials, which they then can post over our social media.
SPEAKER_01:So are you involved with coming up with new concepts for harmonicas?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, concepts, this is also very interesting because these days, especially a lot of people are asking or talking about breeze conditions because of the pandemic, because of Corona. So how can we do possibly some lessons to strengthen our lungs. So this is also very often we are asked about this. And then we talk also with musicians who already have these kind of concepts, whether we can support those people with their concepts, maybe producing specialized harmonicas which fit better to their systems or to their things they are promoting. So I think there's also a lot of things in this direction as well.
SPEAKER_01:Another part of your role is you get to travel the world and go to some fantastic harmonica festivals so obviously you go to Trostingen the World Harmonica Festival in Trostingen you go to Spa you go to the one in Seoul so what's it like having to travel the world going to all these harmonica festivals Gerhard?
SPEAKER_00:This is the nice job of course besides the fact that you are very strong involved in all the activities in the company itself at the factory but of course you also travel around the world to meet musicians as I mentioned to get their What they would like to have for future developments of harmonicas. And then, of course, you meet all these people during some special events. Yes, as you already said that I went to spa conventions. I went to Seoul International Harmonica Festival. I was at several Asia Pacific Harmonica Festivals. There's really a huge crowd of different harmonica activities, including then fantastic concerts in the evening. Also, really very interesting and informative things. sessions and workshops and of course also a lot of these competitions which is very very interesting for asian people because asian people they like to grab the opportunity to play in competitions and this is also a really a strength of the world harmonica festival here in trussingen which is held all four years yes i'm the president of the federation international della harmonica which is the organizer of the world's biggest international harmonica festival here in trussingen
SPEAKER_01:yeah no fantastic and i you know the fest was really short the diversity of music played in the harmonica. That's always incredible, isn't it? That such a humble instrument can play such a range of genres of music. So, a little bit more about you then. So, I think you mentioned already, you've already given us a taste of some German folk music. You're a player yourself. Are you mainly a chromatic player? I think you were part of the orchestra, as you mentioned earlier on, which is the Horner Klang Orchestra there in Trottingen.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, in Trottingen-Born, and then you start playing the Horner Musikinstrument. I started playing harmonica, because my father, he played himself the chord harmonica, the big chord instrument, also in the Honoklang Orchestra. Yes, I had lessons with a familiar teacher at that time, Helmut Herold. He was a really fantastic player who also has his own harmonica trio, the Trio Herold. I got lessons from him many, many years, and then I started also to get a, what, not musical career, but I'm still a soloist at the Honoklang Orchestra, playing there a lot of nice, more modern-styled tunes not classical style but more jazzy style or more yes more modern music then i established also with three wonderful ladies my own harmonica ensemble it's called harmonica mento
SPEAKER_02:so
SPEAKER_00:Yes, but basically I'm a chromatic harmonica player because this is when you start playing the harmonica in trussing and there are no teachers who train you to play the blues. So therefore there was no opportunity for me to play blues or different style of music. So therefore, and everything is focused on the chromatic harmonica afterwards. So therefore I started then my career as a chromatic harmonica player.
SPEAKER_01:And a very fine chromatic harmonica player you are as well, Gerhard, I must say from this thing. So as you mentioned there, you're part of the harmonica mento. quartet there's two chromatics a bass and a chord yeah as per traditional harmonica quartet so you're one of the chromatic players then obviously
SPEAKER_00:yes yes right
SPEAKER_02:so
SPEAKER_01:you don't play chord or bass yourself in the quartet?
SPEAKER_00:No, because bass and chord are really blocked by nice ladies, Brigitte Burgbacher and Birgit Käfer. I play the chromatic harmonica together with a former world champion on chromatic harmonica, Katrin Gass. I also play a little bit blues there, because we have one or two songs where also a blues harmonica, Tainal Diatonic, is integrated into the song, and I also play a little bit the harmonetta. Possibly you know this looks like a typewriter machine, and this is something I also play myself a little bit
SPEAKER_01:yeah well great to hear that the product manager plays chromatic and some diatonic and even a little bit of others so your group Harmonica Mento won the group competition in Trossingen in I think in 1997 yeah
SPEAKER_00:yeah it was not only Harmonica Mento so not the three ladies and me so four people so this was a bigger group and this was already then also called Harmonica Mento because we played at this World Harmonica Festival the song called Harmonica Mento this was a composition from Hans Günther Kölz, also an accordion teacher here located in Trossingen, and he is still the conductor of the Hohenklang Orchestra. So we played this song, Harmonica Mento, at the World Harmonica Festival, won the first place in this, I think, group category. And then, of course, this group, they have no further interest to play in this big formation. And then we say, well, it would be a shame to stop doing this. And then there was Katrin, Birgit and Brigitte, and they asked me, also, would you like to join? So We have watered and then we traveled around the world already. So we played a lot of concerts in Germany, of course, and then in whole Europe. We also went over to Russia. We played concerts in St. Petersburg, in Moscow. We went over to Japan, played their concerts in Tokyo. We had a spa convention. So we toured really worldwide with Quartet Harmonica Mento.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, fantastic. Yeah, good for you, yeah. So you've been the product manager for Hohner, though, during pretty much all of this time you've been performing.
SPEAKER_00:I'm also performing, of course, not that much because performing with Harmonica Mento and the orchestra, this is just for fun. It's a hobby. It's not an income. It's just really to play the instrument. And also, at least this also strengthened my position here as a Harmonica player, because I mean, to be a product manager, it's always very good, especially for musical instrument, the product manager. If you play the instrument, you are the product manager for. So if I can't play the instrument, I can't judge whether this is a good one. or this is a bad one, or we have to change this one to get a better one. So therefore, it's always good to play the instruments and then really to judge, yes, now we are on the right track. This is the thing we are looking for. Of course, also always talking with musicians because we got a lot of information from our official Hohner NRCs, professional harmonica players, and they also judge prototypes which we send out. Sometimes I travel around and present the prototypes to these musicians to get their feedback. And then it they say well you have to modify a little bit here and there then we do so so that we have really products in the market and which completely fulfill the requirements at least also of professional harmonica players and then of course also for beginners and advanced players
SPEAKER_01:yeah great to hear that you're a good dedicated player talk a little bit about the quality so I had Rick Epping on the show quite a number of episodes back so he was the original product manager for Hohner in the US so and he was quite pivotal in bringing the quality of our own harmonicas back up back then and obviously Joe Felisco I think got involved with that as well and you know his customization and some of the techniques and obviously like Joe Felisco helped design the Thunderbird harmonica so you know tell us a story around what happened in this quality bar being raised again for Hauna
SPEAKER_00:I mean this was right I mean you know all these customizers like Joe Felisco or Richard Slade or they're also Joel Anderson from Sweden which are really brilliant harmonicas at these days and of course we tried as a serious manufacturer, we always try to bring out the harmonicas at the highest quality level possible. But then, of course, you also have to check, well, it's a serious product. It's not a handcrafted thing, which everything can be exactly figured out. So you have to keep a certain quality level, of course, a high quality level for the serious production. And there, Rick Epping, I know him very well because he was my colleague in the US. I was here in Drossingen. We worked together very close. And also when we established the manufacturing facilities in Asia. He also was strongly involved. He went over there together with me to really train the people over there because I also do some technical things. It's not only that I'm a product manager or a harmonica musician. I also know all the technical stuff to produce a harmonica, especially the heart of the instrument, the re-plate. We did a lot of things together, Rick and I, and the quality level, as I mentioned, you have to be very focused to have a high-level quality but on a serious production level. You can do it even better, but under serious production conditions, it's very hard because it's too time consuming to do all the customizing things to bring the reed plate slots or the reeds even closer to the slots so that the response is even better to adjust the single reeds exactly like the players would like to have them. There's a lot of individualization in the preparation of a harmonica, especially for top musicians. And we try our very best as a serious manufacturer to have the highest quality possible for Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:no, absolutely. And I've said on the podcast many times, and talking to Bertram in the last episode from Seidel, that the quality of harmonicas over the last 20 years is really going up. It's very exceptional now. So well done in bringing the quality up. And I think that competition between you and other manufacturers probably helped that. So we mentioned customizers as well. We mentioned some of them. There's quite a lot of customizers now. There's a kind of Hohner accredited customization scheme now as well, isn't there, where you've got various people who are accredited to be customizers. And they produce what quite expensive versions of mainly diatomics and also the chromatics as well in some cases. So I think there's an interesting question for people listening. What do they do above what Horner can do? Obviously, it's handmade, right? That's the big difference between being mass produced in a factory. That's a big difference, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, of course, they are doing a lot of special things to really have a special treatment on the reeds. Sometimes they polish the reeds so that they have a better surface so that there's no reed breakage, no getting out of tune too fast. They do a lot of things, but as you have seen, possibly all the people have seen the video which we took and sent out at the Harpenbad disease festivals. I mean, there's still also as a mass producer like Hohner, there is still a lot of hand crafting work inside, especially, for example, nailing the individual reeds onto the replays and also then the nailing, the riveting, the adjusting, the tuning, the valving on chromatic harmonicas. It's all done by hand. So it's not to say, well, there's a big machine, there's a material put in the material and in the end, you have the ready-made harmonica. No, it's not. It's really still a lot of hand-crafting work inside harmonica, independent of which manufacturer.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it came across in that video, which I mentioned earlier, and I'm going to post a link to, that the people working in your factories, they're skilled employees, right? That work there for a long time, right? They're not just people who sort of come into a factory and then leave after two years,
SPEAKER_00:right? No, no, no. Because you need, it looks so simple, but it's not. So you need really a certain period of time to get all the secrets behind how to fix a reed onto a reed plate. I mean, this is not too easy to do if you will do it in a high quality level, which we are doing. All these customizers, which you mentioned, they do a lot of things. They have sometimes they seal the original honer combs if they are out of wood. They offer their own combs, which they are producing out of different materials. And of course, they do special treatments on the reeds. Also, how they polish possibly also the reed plates or face and to make sharp edges so that the reed response is even better. The adjustment of of the single reed very, very close to the reed plates of phase to have then also very good workable overblows on the instrument. And they are doing this mainly, as you mentioned, on tenor diatonic. Some of them also do some customization on chromatic harmonicas, like Joel Andersen from Sweden. He's also doing a lot of chromatic harmonicas these times and selling these to our offering these to Asian people, because especially in the Hong Kong area, but also in Japan and Singapore, there a lot of chromatic, very good trained and very well musicians on the chromatic harmonica.
SPEAKER_01:So I was discussing with Bertram in the last episode about obviously Seidel came out with steel reeds and I asked them why only Seidel had steel reeds. So I think it's right that Hohner don't have any steel reeds, right? So why is that?
SPEAKER_00:We stick on the brass reeds because it's our opinion and it's also what we get confirmed all the time from worldwide known professional harmonica players. They say the horn sound of the instruments are the best ones. The horn sound is so warm, so special, so you can play the original music from all these old blues fellows.
UNKNOWN:Bye.
SPEAKER_00:best with the real Horner reeds and the Horner brass materials. I think this is a reason why we are sticking on the brass reeds. And of course, also, maybe it's a little question of tooling because doing the stainless steel reeds, of course, you can't do it the same way with our machinery because the stainless steel is a too hard material. So you can't use our cutters to do the profile into the materials. So this is also one reason. But I think the main reason is people like the Horner sound and this is so typical and this established since over 160 years. This is what really people love. And to be honest, as a musician speaking, I also like the horn sound more than the stainless steel. These stainless steel reeds, they are nice, but to me personally, I don't like the sound. It's too sharp. Yeah, too clear. I like the more dull sound of the horn reeds.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and Bertram did mention the tooling. They kind of started from scratch. They were able to then develop their tooling for steel reeds, which are course you know it's an expensive process so yeah so let's let's just um talk through the whole catalog of harmonica's a reasonably high level so we won't go into tons of detail here but so first of all talking about your diatonic range so i'd say obviously your the diatonic range is your is your biggest seller right so we've already talked about the marine band and the 125 years and there's very various versions of the marine band now obviously we've got the standard marine band which for a long time then then more recently we got the deluxe and the crossover and the thunderbird which is the low versions so uh yeah what about that that marine band for you, those different versions of the marine band?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean, we started, of course, in 1896 with a traditional marine band, 1896. And then after many, many years, also, especially, I would say, the last 40 years or 30 years, we realized there is a lot of people who are really doing self-repair on the instruments. And then, of course, if you have an original marine band, 1896, where all the parts are nailed, so the replays are nailed on the wooden comb, the cover plates are nailed, the sandwich. So we said, this is is for service reasons, it's not the best to use nails and to fix all the parts by nails. So then we said, well, can we do a kind of a better version where all the parts are screwed? And then we brought out, besides the 1896, we brought out the Marine Band Deluxe Harmonica, where all the re-plates are screwed on the wooden comb and also the cover plates are screwed. This was a quite nice mood. What we also did, of course, we opened in the backside the cover plate shape. So if you look for on a Marine Band 1896, the cover plates and the backside are more closed. Now the MarineVent Deluxe covers are folded in so there is more output of the sound in the backside of the instrument. And also the comb is also especially sealed in the front side where your lips are on. So there's also a special gliding, polishing or a special layer of lacquer on the top side so that the instruments are better to handle, better to perform. So this is a reason why we also start then doing nailing. And then also we found out, well, we are always using using the perwatt comb material for the marine bends. And then we figured out, well, you also maybe can use a different material. Just tried out different wooden materials, but then we said, well, wood, okay, but is there anything else? And then we figured out, wow, great, maybe we can use bamboo. So this was the reason why we take out bamboo because bamboo is a very hard material and also very stable when it's getting wet during humidity. And of course also your saliva, which runs in the instrument. So we then checked out, Is it possible to use bamboo? And it was. Then this was the reason when we brought out also a screwed version of the Marine Band Deluxe, but with a bamboo comb. And then we called this model the Crossover Harmonica.
SPEAKER_01:On your other main branch of diatonics, you've got what you call the Progressive Series. And this is the plastic-bodied harmonicas, right? So the Special 20, the Golden Melody. And then you also came out more recently with the Rocket, which is a sort of version of the Special 20. What about the plastic-bodied harmonica
SPEAKER_00:range? Yeah, I mean, after the wooden components, Combs, of course, a lot of people, they are asking for plastic combs because especially beginners, we always say, well, if you are a beginner, you shouldn't start with a Marine Band 1896. Of course, this is the original one. But starting, there's a lot of saliva running inside the instrument. So please check out a harmonica with a plastic comb. Then, of course, the working horse of HONOR is still the Special 20 harmonica. We sell a lot of these instruments, especially in the US, but also worldwide. And after the Special 20, of course, we have the Golden Melody. The only harmonica which we have is a tempered tuning And then we found out that after, because Special 20 was implemented also in the 60s already. And then we say, well, the comb design is not that perfect. You have some edges which are not that comfortable to hold also when playing with your lips. And then we try to have a better composition of comb. And then we brought out the Rocket Harmonica. The replay is still the same. So Rocket Replay and the Special Adventure Replay are identical. But the comb and, of course, also the cover plate shape is different. compared with Special 20 to the Rocket Harmonica. And the Rocket Comb, I think this is really a very nice comb because everything is rounded. So you have no sharp edges. It's very comfortable to your lips also when holding it. I think it's really a very well designed of the comb and the whole instrument. Also, the cover blade shape is excellent. So I think it's a good harmonica, especially in the progressive line where we have the Special 20, the Golden Melody, and then the Rocket Harmonicas. Yes, we have there three Rockets you know this, possibly also our listeners know this. We have the standard Rocket Harmonica where cover plates are also opened on the sides, so the sidebands are opened like on the marine band. And then we have the Rocket Amp where the sidebands are closed to have more protection of the sound in the backside of the instrument. And then we have the Rocket Low, so some of the low keys also available for the plastic models like the Rocket.
SPEAKER_01:And then you've got a few more ranges, the MS series and the Enthusiast and the Miniature in the diatonic. But moving on to your chromatic, traditionally for a long time you've had the 270, which has been a long-standing 12-hole chromatic, which is again very much a standard of the chromatic harmonicas. Was this kind of one of the original design chromatics released by Halner?
SPEAKER_00:I would say yes, because this is a very long tradition. We had celebrated the 100th anniversary of the chromatic harmonica, and this was very close from the design like the 270 harmonica, which we still have. I think this is also the model of what? The big heroes on the chromatic harmonica like Larry Adler. They all played, or I would say started with their career playing chromatic harmonica with the 270. Myself, I play also the 270, not the standard 270. I play the 270 Deluxe Harmonica. This is a fantastic instrument, very handy. It's not a big size. Of course, you have three octaves, wooden comb, very warm, very smooth, very nice sounds. It's fantastic, especially playing this light music. Of course, also the classical music and a little bit jazz because Toots Thielemans himself, he has this year on the 29th, I think, April, his 100th birthday. And he plays also the 270 Deluxe Harmonica. the Honung Chromatics, because we have two models in our line, the Mellotone and the Hardbopper, two Stiedemanns models. And yes, the sound is so incredible. I came back to a brass material for the reeds. I mean, this makes a difference.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you mentioned there the Toots 100 birthday. There's actually a concert on his birthday on the April 29th in Belgium, if we're giving a mention now. Interestingly, Gregoire Moray is playing the harmonica, and of course he plays Suzuki harmonica. So that would be interesting, because of course, as you say, Toots plays the... There's two Toots models, chromatics. So it's interesting to hear that you play the 270, given the fact that Hohner have a performance here. of more expensive chromatics, such as the Silver Concerto, the Amadeus, the Meisterclass, and the Super 64, and the A. So, like you say, you prefer the 270s still over those.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, I'm really bored with the 270 when I start playing the chromatic harmonicas, and I stick there a little bit because I like the sound. Of course, also the sound of the other models are also incredibly nice, but to me, personally, I like this wooden comb sound. I know there are a lot of discussions about the material out from the comb did not make the difference, it's a cover plate shape, and end and end. Possibly all these guys are right, but to me I prefer the wooden comb instruments. Of course, I also own an Ace 48 and I also have the CX-12. I like the CX-12 very much, especially the jazz version. The sound is completely different, but I like the shape and I like the construction of the CX-12. But I don't like the big ones because normally I can handle with three octaves starting with the C1. This is nice for me. I don't need the low octave because I play In the orchestra, as well as in the group, I play the first voice. So I don't need the low end to play the second voice.
SPEAKER_02:So
SPEAKER_01:I'm the same. I think if you're used to the 12-hole, playing that 16-hole is quite a challenge, isn't it? So I'm with you there for sure. So yeah, and then we've touched on the orchestral harmonicas that Hohner produced. So Hohner still are manufacturing chord and two versions of the bass, the 58 and 78. So do you sell many of these? As you say, orchestral instruments are probably bigger out in the East. So is that where you sell most of them?
SPEAKER_00:Chord and bass harmonicas, of course, you know yourself. I mean, there was a big, big scene in the 50s, 60s, 70s, where a lot of harmonica ensembles play chord and bass harmonicas, melody with a chromatic. This is shrinking, especially in the US. If you go to a spa convention and you see the people there, they still play, but the average age is very old. So I think there's not a real young population coming up and playing this bass and chord harmonicas. In Asian countries, it looks completely different because I think this has something to do with the educational system. They play a lot of harmonica in schools, And they also offer their orchestras, harmonica orchestras, and also some ensembles and some groups. And there, we sell really a lot of these bass and chord harmonicas, especially in the Asian countries. And also, they are focused on Hong Kong, Malaysia as well, also Taiwan, Japan, and Singapore.
SPEAKER_01:So as well as these, obviously, Honour sells tremolo harmonicas, which are very popular in various places, octave harmonicas, beginner harmonicas. So you've got all these different ranges. And on top of this, you sell various accessories. You've got some, what look like some very good cases now, your Flex case for 17, 18 or 48 harmonicas. Yeah, they look very good. I have one of your older cases, but I don't have one of these Flex cases. They look very nice.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, I mean, it's not only to say, well, you have a wonderful assortment of harmonicas. Of course, you also need a qualified supporting staff like all the accessories which we are offering and especially the Flex cases. We implemented them into the market, I think, yeah, a few years before and we have started then totally with three different sizes. I think they are really great. The functionality is fantastic. The material is great. Also, the big one, which you can use on stage, you have really a lot of space inside these cases to use for tenor diatonic as well as also for chromatics and tremolo octave. And in the big one, you also can add some other great accessories from Hohner, like the harmonica microphone, or it also fits the flex rack, so the harmonica neck holder and stuff like this.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, I wanted to ask you about the microphone. So Holner do sell a dedicated harmonica microphone called the HB-52. I think this is built on your previous heart blaster, which you had out 20 odd years ago, isn't it? But I'm interested to see about this, that this SE Electronics are a very well-established quality microphone producer. They produce the element for this microphone. And obviously the element of harmonica microphones is the sort of holy grail. So yeah, I'd be interested to hear about the development of that element. Well,
SPEAKER_00:this is very special because, to be honest, I'm not an expert in the microphones because they are not only producing the elements, they produce the whole microphone. So there's nothing inside us except all the knowledge how the microphone looks like because they are very close together with a lot of professional musicians to get the right size, to get the right weight of the microphone and, of course, also to have the correct elements inside the microphone. Especially, for example, Steve Baker, he was one of the of the guy who really helped a lot to the development process for this microphone. And he himself, of course, plays now the microphone. He has still a lot of microphones, also custom-made ones, but he definitely preferred the new HONOR microphone because he said the size is great, also the volume control on the backside, everything fits to his hands and he liked it very much. So I think this is really a fantastic development which we did together with S-Electronics.
SPEAKER_01:I saw Steve Baker talking about it, yeah, and it's smaller, isn't it, in the hand? It's slightly smaller than
SPEAKER_00:the original, the former Blues Blastom, yes. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:I had a Blues blaster of what 25 years ago or something it was a good the good microphone back then i remember
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:uh so yeah no great that's it you've got that touching on honer and dorsey uh players right so you've got lots of players which are honer and dorsey's lots of harmonica players all around the world i'll put the link on to the page the podcast page so people can see them people from from all over obviously pick a few names out you've got you've got bonnie b who's a swiss player and some fantastic stuff so
UNKNOWN:you
SPEAKER_01:Why do you choose
SPEAKER_00:the
SPEAKER_01:endorsers that you do?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I mean, endorsers are always very important to spread out the brand. We have mainly these really big, fantastic, most professional harmonica players worldwide. They play the honor instruments, they play on stage, and they also do some promotions. They do social media posts and say, well, listen, I play the honor, blah, blah, blah. So this is a good promotion for the brand. But of course, also, it helps us to be close to these endorsers, as I mentioned before, to get their feedback back what they are looking for, especially do quality modifications on the existing product line. I think this is really worthwhile to do so. We also then start inviting those people to come to Trossingen to play at the World Harmonica Festivals. And then we also give a kind of, what, sponsoring to these players to be a part of the Asian Pacific Harmonica Festival, to go to spa. We are also doing sponsoring of these big events, especially to send over musicians to this event to really bring their musical program to a even higher level with these professional musicians.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And again, some great players in that list. Yeah. People check out all the names in there. Yeah. It's great to see them spreading the word of harmonica there.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Another thing which Hohner offer is the C-Shop, which is where you can buy parts for the harmonicas and then you can do your own maintenance by replacement parts, reeds, the body, combs, etc. So this is quite a long established website now, isn't it? Where people have been able to buy parts for a number of years.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think right now we are just because the design and also the handling of the formal C-Shop was not that perfect because all the industry, especially the internet shops and they go further and further So we are right now checking out a new version of the C-Shop. Of course, the content will be the same. You still can order all the different parts of harmonica, like sets for reeds or cover plates, combs, everything, sliders for chromatics, valves. You can get all of this, but we just prepare a better design of the shop and also a better handling. This is just in preparation. And I think this is very important because if you look for other brands, I mean, this is very often, yes, you can get the harmonicas possibly on an online shop or maybe on a located dealer in your country. But if you need a service, then this is always more or less a disaster. If you have a Chinese brand or some of the Japanese brands, it's even no way that you get spare parts for those models. Even you can't find somebody who can handle to do the service on a broken reed or whatever. And this is really a strength of the Horner brand because we can send in harmonicas, very old-fashioned harmonicas, and we mainly are always able to do the service and the reconstruction of the really old harmonicas because sometimes you have what a harmonica played already by your grandfather you would like to have exactly this harmonica but there was something broken maybe the cover plates are not that nice so we can do all the repair work on these old harmonicas and I think this is also very important as a harmonica manufacturer that you are offering a very good brilliant service you sell the spare parts to people who are looking for spare parts and this is always and was always a strength of the Horner brand.
SPEAKER_01:You know, great to see people can maintain and improve the harmonica that they've already bought. You're not just looking to sell new ones all the time, so that's good to see. So, I mean, one thing, again, we touched on it a little bit with the World Harmonica Festival in Trostingen, which happens every four years. You've also got the Masters Workshop. So last year was the World Harmonica Festival was online in 2021. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:exactly. So normally we have the history of the World Harmonica Festival all four years. It starts in 1981 I think this was the first one this series of World Harmonica Festival which is the biggest international one with which a lot of competitions and even in concerts we have a lot of workshops established in the program also you can of course join Factory Tour of the Honu Company and you can go to the Harmonica Museum with this fantastic exhibition what we're also offering in Trossingen this is every year except the year when the World Harmonica Festival is held we have the Harmonica Masters workshops yes made by Steve Baker. We did this many, many years already. Very successful. And this year we also have the Harmonica Masterclass workshops from the 8th to the 12th of June this year, also in Trossingen. We have a lot of very experienced teachers and, of course, Joe Felisco from the US, Steve Baker himself. We have Joel Andersson from Sweden. We have Markus Kohl from original Spain living in Berlin right now. Jason Ritchie is there for the first time, I think, this Yeah, this is the first time that Jason will show up here, because he's not that often in Europe, so therefore it's a very good opportunity to meet him, also to grab some musical insights from him during the workshops, and of course also then check out his concert in one of the evening
SPEAKER_01:concerts. Of course, the Masters workshop this year, that's usually in November, isn't it? But it's in June this year, so are there still places for people to book on that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, some of the workshops are already very, very close to booked out, so especially Jason Ritchie and Joe Velisco, I think possibly they have maybe a handful, especially space for additional participants. There are also some others fantastic from the program, especially the workshop from Markus Koll. Check out the webpage for the Harmonica Masters workshops.
SPEAKER_01:I'll put the link on the podcast page. So a question I ask each time, Gerhard, is if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10
SPEAKER_00:minutes doing? At this moment, I only can talk to chromatic harmonica players because I'm not that familiar with these 10 or 20 harmonica players. For chromatic harmonicas, first of all, no question. Also, a good hint for tenor diatonic players. Please warm your harmonica. The difference, cold instrument, warm air, it's too much. So please hold your harmonica for a few seconds before you start playing the instrument. As a chromatic harmonica player, I would say, yes, start in the middle position, play simple major scales, play a G major scale. So simply play scales when doing this. And then, of course, also check out that you are, especially chromatic harmonica players, that your slide mechanism works well and also that you are able able to have the correct presence exactly when you need the slider. I can just give an example. So I just do some practice things which I'm doing when I have 10 minutes to start playing, performing with Abyssal Groove. Very simple how I start playing the harmonica, of course. Then afterwards, I also then play the songs like, for example, this one. This is a favorite tune I always play because this gives me personally a good mute to play the harmonica. What's the name of that song? In German, it's called Ich war noch niemals in New York. So I never went to New York. This is a song by Udo Jürgens. This is a singer, but I perform, the orchestra perform a lot of his songs in the orchestra. And this is one of the songs. I never went to New York.
SPEAKER_01:Very nice to play. Well done, Gerhard. Clearly, I expect you play only Holner harmonicas, do you? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:You
SPEAKER_01:never try out the competition?
SPEAKER_00:Well, of course I do. Yes, to really have the comparison to know, wow, they are better than ours. And the lucky thing is, I never found out that they are better than ours. I'm very proud to be the product manager for Horner because the instruments are, to me personally and also a lot of players around the world, they are the best choice to use.
SPEAKER_01:So you've already said you play the 270s, your chromatic of choice. Do you play just in the key of C? Yes. And do you ever play any different tunings?
SPEAKER_00:Not really because, you know, I mean, I play the standard tunes also in jazz. I play normal ones. I know that there are a lot of things you can do, especially if I look for Brenton Power. He's doing a a lot of crazy, funny tunings himself to play then his kind of music. Wonderful. But to me, I stick with the standard C major scale on the chromatic harmonica. That's it.
SPEAKER_01:What about diatonics? Which diatonics do you like to play?
SPEAKER_00:I really like the Riemann series, especially the Riemann Deluxe and the crossovers, but I also like the Rocket harmonica because of the really very attractive round shape of the cone and also the sound. I like the sound of the Rocket very much. I don't play a lot of these modular system harmonicas like Goose Harp, Pro Harp or Meister Harps, Big River Harps. I prefer to play the progressive line or the marine band line.
SPEAKER_01:What embouchure do you like to use?
SPEAKER_00:I play a pucker.
SPEAKER_01:And when you're performing, clearly you're playing more in orchestras and you're playing chromatic. So are you playing just with an acoustic microphone?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yes. So we have a Shure SM58. I think this is the standard which I'm using.
SPEAKER_01:And you stand off that you don't hold it?
SPEAKER_00:I have it on a stand, yes. Sometimes I use it also hand. If I play more jazzy style, then of course I have the harmonica, the microphone in my hands. But normally if I perform together with my group, it's harmonica mento, then of course microphones are located or fixed on a stand.
SPEAKER_01:And do you any amplification or are you using a PA a clean amplification
SPEAKER_00:well this is a good thing because when we go on stage we always have very good technicians with us so they have the whole system which fits to our music to our style we own our own system of course we also use a lot of stuff of the orchestra which we can use or which you are allowed to use but we also have our own equipment which we can use then when going on stage and have gigs around the world and what about any effects no effects no like the poor harmonica sound. If you do a lot of effects, you lose the real, the quality and the originality of the harmonica sound, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, so final question then. So about the pandemic, how was the pandemic for Hohner Harmonicas? You sell more during
SPEAKER_00:that time? The funny thing is, I have to say more or less, yes, because people have more time because a lot of people, they sit at home, so they are not allowed to go out or at least to work outside. So they have home office. They had more time and we had the feeling that the business in these difficult times for everybody was not that bad for Hohner Harmonica, also Accordion. It was quite a night business for us. Of course, also very difficult was to really, and this is the material supply, this also tech loss. So we had some problems to get the material at the right time to produce the big demand for our instruments. But in general, I would say, yes, as bad as the situation with COVID for especially musicians was, for the industries, music industries, especially harmonicas it was not that bad yeah
SPEAKER_01:no good to hear and it brought some some joy to people during those troubled days so that's great to hear
SPEAKER_00:yeah
SPEAKER_01:so thanks so much Gerhard Müller for joining me today
SPEAKER_00:yes thank you so much Neil for the invitation I hope that yes you got a lot of insights from Hohner and of course also from Gerhard Müller in person so it was really fun to be your guest and thank you so much for the invitation
SPEAKER_01:thanks so much Gerhard for joining us and the Hohner company for describing their wonderful range of products Thanks to Robert Sawyer for making a second donation to the podcast. The first person to make a second donation. Thanks so much, Robert. And everyone, please check out the Harmonica Happy Hour podcast website. You can find all the previous episodes. It's over now to Gerhard to play us out with the Threnzilosa.