Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Ricky Cool interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 70

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Ricky Cool joins me on episode 70.

Ricky hails from the Birmingham area of the UK, and drew great inspiration asa teenager from the American folk festivals which brought some harmonica greats to the city. Under his alter ego Ricky Cool, he went on to lead several successful rhythm and blues band, with Jamaican music also brought into the set. He also played harmonica in a band with Led Zeppelin’s Robert Plant! 

Ricky played harmonica and saxophone in most of these bands and this combination of instruments has led to his recent series of excellent YouTube videos called ‘Mississippi Saxophone’. In these videos he picks out some great horn lines and shows how to play them on harmonica.    


Links:

Ricky Cool and the In Crowd:
https://www.rickycoolandtheincrowd.co.uk/


Videos:

Mississippi saxophone YouTube series of tutorial videos:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-ssuQxsIvn_NJy1A12hVyiq4Xb09ZXPj

Ricky’s YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/rickycool100

Ricky Cool and The Icebergs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX4akPiV0Wo

Playing at NHL festival in 1988:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Wf6X-erO4


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

Ricky Cool joins me in episode 70. Ricky hails from the Birmingham area of the UK and drew great inspiration as a teenager from the American folk festivals which brought some harmonica greats to the city. Under his alter ego Ricky Cool, he went on to lead several successful rhythm and blues bands, with Jamaican music also brought into the set. He also played harmonica in a band with Led Zeppelin's Robert Plant. Ricky played harmonica and saxophone in most of these bands, and this combination of instruments has led to his recent series of excellent YouTube videos called Mississippi Saxophone. In these videos, he picks out some great horn lines and shows how to play them on harmonica. This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

SPEAKER_04:

Hello,

SPEAKER_00:

Ricky Cool, and welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you very much, Neil. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00:

First of all, start with your name, Ricky Cool. So is that your real surname?

SPEAKER_02:

No, it isn't. My real name is Richard Rogers.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, well, it's a cool stage name.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. So you're from Birmingham in the UK. Is that right? You're originally from Birmingham?

SPEAKER_02:

That's correct. I was born in Hales, Owen, which is about eight miles from Birmingham. I've sort of been in and out of Birmingham and have now lived in Birmingham for a long time.

SPEAKER_00:

So what got you into music around Birmingham and playing the harmonica in your youth?

SPEAKER_02:

Up until the age of into my 20s, I was in Hales Owen and then lived in Kidderminster for a while. But when I was in Hales Owen, I got into the blues basically through the route which a lot of people have had, which was the Rolling Stones. Although having said that, I do remember at the age of six, being on holiday with my parents in Western Supermare and hearing Heartbreak Hotel on the jukebox at the hotel we were staying in and then taking money or asking for money from my parents and playing Heartbreak Hotel over and over and over again. So it must have resonated with me in some way. And I was heavily into rock and roll as a young child. I used to love Little Richard. When that sort of rock and roll started to get sanitised, I lost interest for a while. but then the Beatles, first of all, and then the Rolling Stones really turned me back on to music in a big way, particularly the Rolling Stones. And I was just fascinated by looking at some of the names of the people who were given songwriting credits on their singles and albums, those early ones when they were mainly doing covers. That was the pathway into the blues. And once I'd discovered the likes of Howlin' Wolf, Muddy Waters, Sonny Boy Williamson, I was gone. From the age of about 13 through to 18, I was up in my bedroom every night and just devouring blues music wherever I could hear it from. I started playing guitar when I was 13 and then started fooling, I won't say playing, I'll say fooling around with the harmonica when I was 15. Luckily, every year at Birmingham Town Hall, they used to do the American Folk Blues Festival.

SPEAKER_00:

I've got some of those DVDs from back then, yeah, some brilliant recordings, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

The first one I went to was 1965 when I was 15. I think the harmonica player who was on that was Big Walter and certainly Big Mama Thornton I think was on that bill and she played harmonica and possibly Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee. I was exposed to some of the greats and it was really Sonny Terry at that time who just fascinated me. You know, just seeing him and Brownie McGee, seeing him sitting there and the way he used his hands and the whooping. I'd never seen that, obviously never seen anything like that in my life before or heard anything like that before. So I was hugely influenced by Sonny Terry, like so many other players. I loved Little Walter, but I just couldn't figure that out because the sound, the amplified sound, was something I just didn't have any idea how to achieve. So the other players, really big influence in those days was Sonny Boy Williamson number two and particularly a couple of albums he did I think on the Storyville label which I think he recorded in the 60s with Memphis Slim those albums which were very much a sort of an acoustic album I loved those albums and Sonny Boy of course did some solo harmonica numbers on those like Moving Downside the River of Rhine which was a particular favourite of mine and I learnt to play that

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I

SPEAKER_00:

see on your YouTube channel, you demonstrate you've got some sort of shrine to Sonny Boy in your house there.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, yes, I have. You're quite right. The singer from... King Pleasure and the Biscuit Boys, a British swing band. Mark Skirving is a wonderful artist. And I commissioned him to do a picture of Sonny Boy Williamson for me. So I've got that. It's surrounded with albums and EPs.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I have a painting done by a person that I knew of, Muddy Waters. So yeah, similarly, not quite a shrine.

SPEAKER_02:

The other big album back in those days, sort of a bit later in the 60s, was Hoodoo Man Blues by Junior Wells. That was big album in the UK.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah so you mentioned obviously the Rolling Stones being a kind of gateway into discovering all the blues guys so did Mick Jagger's harmonica playing inspire you to pick up the harmonica or was it?

SPEAKER_02:

I wouldn't have said so you know when I saw them on the television and seeing either him playing or you would see Brian Jones playing the harmonica you know the look of it was something I was interested in but it wasn't them that inspired me to play the harmonica or John Lennon in the Beatles it was actually seeing the American artists and hearing those records. I mean, the blues festivals were a really big thing for me. And a lot of the jazz concerts that used to come to Birmingham Town Hall in the 60s. I remember going to see Theolonious Monk when I was about 15 or 16, and I didn't understand a thing about what he was playing.

UNKNOWN:

So

SPEAKER_02:

But it was just the whole thing about seeing these guys on a stage looking so cool. I was just wrapped up in the whole idea of seeing black musicians playing.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it sounds like you're really in the right place at the right time together. So lucky to have all those guys coming across. It was a brilliant thing, wasn't it? I mean, where I grew up in the northwest of England, there were blues festivals at Colne and Burnley. So I did get to see those and some of the kind of older American musicians would come across, but it was more kind of British bands.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I remember the Colne things very well because I was the compere.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, were you?

SPEAKER_02:

On the international stage at the Municipal Hall in Colne throughout the 1990s and just into the turn of the century.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I probably saw you there, yeah. I remember

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I saw a lot of those guys. And of course, obviously the American white artists who'd been influenced by them. So I saw the fabulous Thunderbirds there, Mighty Flyers. And I was fortunate enough, of course, to be able to introduce them on stage.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, fantastic. Yeah. So you then, I understand, started playing the saxophone and that's where you had your sort of formal music training, yeah?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, that's right. Well, as I said, I started playing harmonica when I was 15, although I actually never saw another harmonica player apart from at the folk blues festivals. I never saw a harmonica player to talk to about harmonica until I was probably 17, 18 and started what I'd kind of learned just from records, my bits of guitar. I started going to some folk clubs and playing guitar and harmonica on a rack, trying to do my best at playing some blues and I'd be playing Bob Dylan numbers as well and things like that at that time. In terms of the saxophone, I didn't actually start playing the saxophone until I was 27 and that was when I was a member of Ricky Cool and the Icebergs, the material we were doing, it seemed appropriate to have a second saxophone. We all thought it would be great to be able to do some saxophone harmonies. You know, that was what actually got me started on the saxophone. And then I did go through formal sort of training on that and went through all the grades. I took a diploma. But even so, in terms of being able to get up and improvise and sit in with people and whatever, the harmonica would be the, you know, my instrument of choice. We'll

SPEAKER_00:

get on to the saxophone part later on in the podcast because you've done a fantastic series of YouTube videos called The Mississippi Saxophone. You talk about learning from saxophone solos and riffs and things like that, which is a great resource. So yeah, we'll get on to that shortly. But yeah, getting back onto the, you mentioned your Ricker Cool and the Icebergs, I think that was your first band.

SPEAKER_04:

Did you ever wake up Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

Ricky Cool and the Icebergs was the first sort of band where it got a little bit serious, if you like. I did play in other bands before then with people who subsequently were members of Ricky Cool and the Icebergs. But I mean, when that band formed, like so many bands, it was really just a group of friends making music together and having a bit of fun. It was just one of those things. For about six months to a year when that band first started, everything just seemed to slot into place. We started a residency at a pub called The Barrel Organ in Birmingham. It just so happened that because of the nature of the music we were playing, which was rhythm and blues, we were playing some sort of country and western influence stuff. We'd discovered Louis Jordan, so we were playing a bit of swing. There was no one else in Birmingham doing anything like that at all. I suppose in way it was the Birmingham equivalent of what was happening in the London pub circuit because we were sort of totally unique in Birmingham with what we were doing in no time at all at the Barrel Organ we were drawing huge crowds people would queue up outside to on a Saturday night to see us play we would rehearse all afternoon go home and have some tea come back and do the evening show so that I mean it was a great grounding for the band within six months of starting that residency We did a half-hour TV special on Midland Regional TV, and as a result of that, we got seen by Mike Vernon, who asked us to go to his studios in Chipping Norton, where he did all his Blue Horizon recordings. He did some recording work with us. It didn't actually lead to anything, but we started going down to London. We were doing this on the coattails, really, of two other bands from the the premier band in Birmingham at that time and a band from Dudley called Little Acre. We then started going down to London and playing in various places and soon started having our own London following which continued forever in various subsequent bands after the Icebergs.

SPEAKER_00:

So what were you playing in this band? You were the singer.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I was fronting it. The thing about Ricky Cool and the Icebergs, which I think appealed to a lot of people as well, the name Ricky Cool, when we first started the band, we called ourselves Tricky Dicky and the Wildcats. Now, Tricky Dicky was a nickname that I'd been given when I was working in a factory. Because my name's Richard, it came about because Richard Nixon was running against Hubert Humphrey for the American presidency and he'd been christened Tricky Dicky so I became Tricky Dicky so we had Tricky Dicky and the Wildcats We decided we needed to change that name because Marty Wild's band was called the Wildcats. And it just so happened that Steve Gibbons had released a single called Johnny Cool. So Ricky became Ricky Cool. I mean, I was a very shy folk club performer and a very shy member of bands.

SPEAKER_00:

The amount of singers that have come in on here who said to me, I was very shy. It's quite amazing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you're absolutely right. But now I've got this name. name, Ricky Cool. So I couldn't just go to a microphone and sort of mumble, oh, thank you very much. And the next number is... That wouldn't work. I'd got to live up to this name. So I adopted an American persona. I used to weave stories about this character, Ricky Cool, who was actually American and had been virtually every important milestone in the history of popular music. I'd been there. I was the guy who was walking towards the Sun Studios when Elvis Presley turned up in his pickup truck and drove through a puddle which completely drenched my outfit. And so I was brushing myself off as he went in and recorded That's Alright Mama. So I used to tell these stories and the more ridiculous they became, the more people sort of wanted to believe them. And of course, I used to do it in a mock American accent, but it was part of what made the band popular. You know, you have to remember at that time, most Most bands were either rock bands or progressive. The punk thing and the pub rock thing was happening in London. But in Birmingham, it took a while for that to... There's no internet for people to watch or YouTube.

SPEAKER_00:

Were you playing harmonica with the Icebergs?

SPEAKER_02:

I was. I was playing harmonica in Ricky Coole and the Icebergs, playing quite a lot of harmonica in the early days of the band. But then once I started practicing the saxophone and got to a point where I could play a few melodies and things like that. The saxophone worked its way more into the band because we were veering more towards Louis Jordan type swing and Bob Wills type Western swing.

SPEAKER_00:

And then you're in a band called Ricky Cool and the Rialtos. So Robert Plant had some involvement, Robert Plant from Led Zeppelin, of course. So what's the story there?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, Ricky Cool and the Rialtos followed on immediately after the Icebergs finished. Most of the work we did was in London with that band. We became very established on the London sort of pub and club circuit. But the members of the band, some of them were from Dudley and had been in Little Acre. So it was kind of some members of Little Acre. And we also, after about six months of being together, recruited a wonderful guitarist and a real close friend of mine, Andy Sylvester. Now, Andy Sylvester Sylvester had played bass in Chicken Shack in the 1960s. He was the bass player on the big hit record they had, their version of Etta James' I'd Rather Be Blind, with Christine Perfect doing the vocals. Now, Andy came from Kidderminster, and that was the area Robert Plant, in his early days, he had a band as well. Andy knew about Robert, and Robert certainly knew about Andy, because Chicken Shack were a big band before any had happened for Robert Plant at all. So they kept that association going. So if we were playing anywhere around the Kidderminster area, sometimes Robert would come and see the band. This was just after the time when John Bonham had died. So I'm talking around about 1980, 81. So it was a difficult time for Robert and he was at a bit of a loose end. And I believe I'm correct in saying that Armut Ertegun at Atlantic Records had suggested that he should go back to his roots. go back to the blues. So Robert decided to do this. And as luck would have it for us, he asked if we would be interested in teaming up with him. And this was the original Honey Drippers lineup. So the Honey Drippers lineup was basically the Rialtos plus Robbie Blunt and Robert. And we started doing clubs and colleges up and down the country as the Honey Drippers. Robert Plant was singing

SPEAKER_00:

though, and not you in

SPEAKER_02:

this. Oh no, Robert was singing, yeah. I was playing some saxophone And I was playing harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So you have played harmonica with Robert Plan. Well, that's a great claim to fame there,

SPEAKER_02:

Ricky. Oh, yes, I have. Yeah. It was actually Robert who helped me get started on playing amplified harmonica. He gave me a JT-30, which I've still got. Some of the people who were working with the band rigged me up with a Fender Princeton harmonica. amp. So when I was doing the Honey Drippers gigs and playing harmonica, I was playing through a JT-30 running through a Fender Princeton. That was it. Yes, I played harmonica with Robert.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, amazing. Yeah. Did you ever do any Led Zeppelin songs?

SPEAKER_02:

No. It's interesting. He deliberately didn't want to do anything Led Zeppelin at all. And of course, a lot of the places we were playing, people were wanting to hear Led Zeppelin songs and there were a couple of occasions I remember one I think it was at Leeds University where he actually stopped the show and talked to the audience and tried to explain to them why he was doing the stuff he was doing and that it was just too raw for him to even think about doing Zeppelin numbers this soon after John Bonham dying I mean once he'd done that the audiences were fine but yeah we did have occasions where People were shouting out for a particular Zeppelin number.

SPEAKER_00:

So after the Rialtos, you then were in a band called the Big Town Playboys, which again was quite a successful band. I certainly was aware of them when they were playing.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I mean, the formation of the Playboys was really down to myself and Andy Sylvester. After the Rialtos finished, we initially really wanted to try and form an authentic Chicago-style blues band. And one of the reasons for that, and I think it's worth mentioning, the impact that the fabulous Thunderbirds had in this country. When they came over, they supported The Clash on a number of gigs in the UK and Europe and came over after that on their own. The Thunderbirds played at the Barrel Organ in Birmingham. And this would be around about 81. Really, it was through people like myself and other players seeing the Thunderbirds at that time that got us to understand there was a big difference between an authentic style blues band and the sort of blues bands which were around in the UK. So Andy and I really wanted to try and get an authentic sounding band together. We went to see various people to see if we thought they'd be interested. But what actually swung it in the end was the fact that through a lot of my musical career, I've also, alongside that, been a teacher in schools. And it just so happened that I was the teacher of Mike Sanchez and Ian Jennings. So I suggested to Andy, because I knew that Mike and Ian had a little rockabilly band together called The Rockets. I said, well, why don't we go and see Mike and Ian and see if they'd be interested in tagging along with us? So that's what we did. And they did. They were up for the idea. We recruited a drummer that I'd worked with in Ricky Cool and the Icebergs. And that was the original Big Town Playboys lineup. So you're playing plenty of harmonica in this band and much more blues. Well, I was initially. But again, Andy and I, and also Mike, we were like musical sponges. We were all through this time with the Icebergs, the Rialtos and the Playboys. We were on a sort of voyage of musical discovery as well. Andy and I discovered all of the fabulous sort of West Coast blues musicians, people like Tiny Grimes, Roy Milton, obviously T-Bone Walker, all of those sort of people. And that influence started coming into the Big Town Playboys and in a way started to push out the Chicago community. blues influences. We were taking more and more influences from those musicians. I mean, people like Amos Milburn, he was a huge influence on the big town playboys. So the harmonica started taking a bit of a backseat to the saxophone. Although we did retain harmonica numbers in the set, like for instance, Shaky Hips, the Slim Harpo. some George Smith numbers we used to do. We used to do one called Rockin'.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yeah, so showing your, you know, like you say, you're into a musical sponge and then you started getting into reggae and you're in a band called Top Ranking.

SPEAKER_02:

That was quite a bit later. Top Ranking was towards the end of the 1990s into the 2000s. I was already a fan of reggae, but being part of that band, all of whom, apart from myself and another saxophone player who I've played with for a number of years, Ted Bundy, All of the other musicians were schooled reggae musicians. We had a singer who'd actually come over to this country via somewhat dubious means from Kingston. And we never knew his proper name, but we christened him George Nightingale because he was such a great singer. So we had George in front of the band. He could sing Delroy Wilson. He could sing Gregory Isaacs, all of those great reggae singers. singers and he could do it so well. In top ranking, it was wonderful because it just gave me the chance to really immerse myself with reggae musicians and sort of pursue my love of reggae music as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Then you carried this on into your current band, which is called Rikikool and the Ink Crowd. Absolutely. So in this, you've got, you know, you've got Rhythm and Blues and Jamaican sort of ska, reggae and...

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, there's a lot of ska influences, Rocksteady, very early reggae, and also going back to Mento. Tracks like my composition, The Coconut Question, are heavily influenced by

SPEAKER_00:

Mento. Great. And so with these, you were playing quite a lot of saxophone, but recently I understand one of the members of your band had to leave. So you're bringing more harmonica into this band again. That's

SPEAKER_02:

correct. Yeah. Well, during the COVID period, the other saxophone player, Ted, who I mentioned earlier, he moved house and he now lives too far away really to make it viable for him to continue with the band. I made the decision really that we should try and continue as a five piece. And this was again, one of the things that happened during covid was i decided i really needed to get back and do some serious harmonica playing because having been self-taught and having in those early days not actually seen any other harmonica players to talk to nobody who could mentor me in any way you know i'd obviously i've learned quite a bit of technique but i've learned a lot of mistakes as well so i decided i was going to get back and really do some serious study which which i did and have done yeah continue to do yeah i decided i'd really like to get the harmonica to be much more of a feature in Ricky Cool in the in crowd which has happened

SPEAKER_00:

picking out a couple of the songs first of all one of the songs is the coconut question It's quite melodic playing, isn't it? You're dueting with a flute. Is that your approach to the kind of reggae, you know, Jamaican style of music?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it just suits that number. So I'm playing in first position, I think on an E flat. I'm playing diatonic harmonica, but I'm playing first position. And on the version that we released on the Flamingo Nights album, I duet with Ted, who also plays flute as well as saxophone. It just really suits that mento feel.

SPEAKER_00:

So what I want to know about this song is how does the milk get into a coconut

SPEAKER_02:

Ricky yeah I always ask that question when we're doing this as a gig there is a story behind that song it goes back to when I was an apprentice at an engineering company near Hales Owen there was a guy who worked at this factory who was a sort of a maintenance engineer used to do sort of like building maintenance around the factory site and his name was Albert Stackhouse which is a great black country name what One of his things was whenever you'd see him around the factory and you say, oh, hi, Albert, how you doing? He'd always just come back and quote poetry at you, whether it was accurate poetry or just something he'd made up. I've no idea. Basic thing is he would just talk nonsense back to you. So one day there was another guy in the factory who I overheard asking him how he should go about doing some crazy paving at his house. And Albert's reply was, how does the milk get in a coconut? So that stuck with me. with me i mean i was what 18 when that happened 17 maybe and it's just stuck in my head it's a great line yeah in the in crowd when we were you know i just had this mento idea running in my head with the punch line being how does the milk get into a coconut the rest of the song got composed around that

SPEAKER_00:

and so and then a couple of new songs which haven't yet released yet you sent through to me yeah yeah you're playing a song called contactless which is based on a jamaican musician roy richards playing a song called contact so you're using a idle fanfare tremolo on this

SPEAKER_02:

that's correct

SPEAKER_00:

so

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, I love the fanfare tremolo, but that's probably because I'm not really a tremolo player and the layout of the fanfare is exactly the same as a solo-tuned diatonic or, well, or a chromatic. So I can kind of get my way around the fanfare because of being familiar with chromatic and solo-tuned harmonicas.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you've got another, you've got a solo-tuned harmonica and a song called Stamina as well, another new one you're bringing into the band.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, the state I'm in. Yeah, and the reason for that, throughout that number when I'm playing harmonica, I play in octaves and it's just kind of a bit easier on a 10-hole size diatonic to play the octaves. So I got Seidel to make me one up using the configurator on the website.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that was great stuff. Yeah, and so using a variety of harmonicas. So if we can now, we'll move on to your Mississippi Sax YouTube series. Yes. So as I mentioned at the beginning, you've done this great series of videos, which I definitely recommend people to check out, and I'll put some links to some of them on your YouTube channel and everything onto the podcast page. So the idea of this is you're taking some great saxophone riffs or just parts of solos, just usually little quiet... sort of sections of solos and you're basically adapting them to harmonica and then you know playing them a harmonica so it's it's a great resource because someone like yourself who plays saxophone like you say you love that music you listen to lots of saxophone music you know we're forever forever hearing people talk about how harmonica players try to sound like a horn you know and and this kind of thing so it's a great way to really dive into that and obviously you've spent a lot of time really are trying to sound like a horn and specifically trying to emulate horn lines yeah so um tell us how you you know where you came up you know the ideas Well,

SPEAKER_02:

the idea came about really because on YouTube, there is a great saxophone player, Randy Hunter. I followed a lot of his YouTube videos. He just did a little series called Great Blues Motifs for Saxophone. That's what sparked the idea. There's some fabulous little bits of saxophone, which are really bluesy, which I'm sure would be great to play on the harmonica. So I started going through my collection. And obviously, with my sort of rhythm and blues background, particularly the West Coast stuff, I was aware of some of those great players who played rhythm and blues rather than jazz. So that kind of, in a way, was a starting point for me. But really, it's just the idea. We all know, because we've heard the story countless times, how little Walter was heavily influenced by the other sax players he saw in and around Chicago. That's how the idea came about. All I wanted to do and all I want to do with this really is show people who tune into my channel in one of those videos is that there are influences all around. It doesn't necessarily have to be a saxophone. It's just the fact that they call the harmonica the Mississippi saxophone.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, just on that name, it's funny because the third episode in a row now, the place of Mississippi is featured quite heavily in the last few episodes. So I don't know if you know anything about that. I guess it's just because that's where the blues kind originated from and uh

SPEAKER_02:

well all i can tell you about that is that in 2008 i did a road trip in the states from memphis and my and my next stop on the on my journey was clarksdale being in clarksdale and the surrounding areas the atmosphere it's just when you're in clarksdale and you walk you're walking along one of the streets and you see john lee hooker avenue it's just sort of oozes the blues yeah i've When I stayed in Clarksdale, I stayed at a hotel called the Riverside Motel. And the Riverside Motel had at one time been a hospital. And it was the hospital where Bessie Smith died. Since it had become a motel, it had been in this one family for years. And I pulled up outside the motel and it looked really ramshackle from the outside. outside the hotel was a plaque about the Bessie Smith story, part of the Mississippi Blues Trail. So I was reading this and a guy came out of the hotel and he said, oh, he said, what are you looking at? I said, I was reading this. He said, are you looking for a place to stay? And I said, well, yeah, I was thinking of maybe staying here. I was sort of taking my courage in my hands. He said, come on in and look around. It turned out it was the owner of the hotel. It was immaculate in But it was like a time warp. All of the furniture was from the 1940s and 50s. And so he said... Well, which room do you want? And I said, well, I don't know. He said, well, this one, this is the room where John Lee Hooker would stay when he was passing through. The one down at the end here, Muddy used that room a lot. This one here, this was Sonny Boy Williamson's room of choice. So which one do you want? So I ended up, I said, well, I'm a harmonica player. I'll have to stay in Sonny Boy Williamson's room. So there I was in the room that Sonny Boy Williamson had. So the man was telling me, stayed in. And once I'd got settled, he took me on a tour around Clarksdale and took me to a little jam session that was going on, introduced me to everybody and said, oh, this is a harmonica player from the UK, Ricky Cool. It was then, oh, come on and play. I sat in with so many people while I was doing this road trip. I mean, the harmonica was such a great little entree to make this happen. trip so memorable.

SPEAKER_00:

Fantastic, yeah. That sounds like it's definitely a road trip we should all do as harmonica players, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I mean, if you're into blues, you really, you know, if you get the opportunity, you really should sort of travel around those areas that we've all read about and heard about in songs.

SPEAKER_00:

So, yeah, so the Mississippi Sax one, again, it sounds like you focus more on the kind of blues, rhythm and blues end than...

SPEAKER_02:

Well, not necessarily. Bits

SPEAKER_00:

of jazz as well, isn't there in there, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, and particularly I've found really because I'm a big fan of it, that period of jazz when blue note records really came into prominence, you know, the late 50s and through into the early 60s. There's so much bluesy saxophone on those records. It's a wonderful resource. The very latest video that I've put on in that series is actually a trumpet, a little bit of trumpet from Lee Morgan on the classic track Moaning, the Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers track Because the opening few notes, the little motifs that Lee Morgan plays on that are just stunning. And they're great for third position blues harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's a question. We'll start looking to some of the specific songs you cover, but that's a question. What really is the difference between these horn lines and playing them on harmonica and learning from other harmonica players? What do you think you're learning differently from that? Obviously, it's a different instrument for one thing, isn't

SPEAKER_02:

it? Well, different instrument for one thing. And because all instruments have their own nuances and things like that, as we know, but there are things that obviously saxophone players will do which maybe a harmonica player wouldn't naturally sort of think of because particularly if your main influence is coming from other harmonica players but with a little bit of investigation and a little bit of experimentation you can find that these ideas actually you know, even if it's not exact, work really, really well. And what I'm trying to get across is that as a player, really, when you get up and play, you want to try and sound like yourself, not like your heroes or this, that and the other. So the more little things that you can pick up from other places and put into your bank of resources, ultimately, it's going to give you a more individual sound and give you your own voice, if you like. I mean, it's a tried and tested technique. You know, you pick up all your influences from other people and then eventually you get your own sound.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I think you approach it very well. You choose quite a short section of a solo from various different great players. And then, you know, you sort of, you say, you tab it out for the harmonica and you sort of demonstrate playing it on the harmonica. And then you sort of play it with a backing track and then you sort of, you know, loosen it up a little bit bit of saying you don't obviously you don't have to play exactly the riff you know you can adapt it and use little ideas from it so you know I think you work that through really well

SPEAKER_02:

yeah that's it I'm just really all I'm trying to do is just show people a doorway open it a little bit and hope that they'll go through

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so I mean one thing obviously with little Walter probably being the most famous of someone who you know would sound like a horn I think part of that is the fact that he amplified the harmonica you know allegedly first maybe other people first but that was a big part of it you know it was the sound wasn't it it was getting which was more sax-like, as well as the lines he was playing as well. So, you know, I mean, what do you think? You know, is it a bit of both?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I think you're absolutely right. I mean, it is that amplified sound. I've been to the chess studios and seen the room and talked to somebody who said, well, I used to do things like this and that and the other. The sound of those little Walter recordings. I think the other thing as well that makes little Walter stand out from all the rest is actually the quality of the songs and the quality of the instrumentals when he's doing those. You know, there are other great players, you know, Big Walter, James Cotton, whatever, but it's the quality of Little Walter's material that makes him stand out. It's consistently such a high standard.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I think definitely it's some of his, like you touched on it there, it's his instrumentals which do have horn-like lines, don't they? They're kind of long weaving lines which are, you know, something like rollercoaster or something. You definitely get that kind of saxophone approach, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

And, I mean, for instance, if you listen to his solo on My Bay, I mean, the opening of that solo is very kind of saxophone-influenced. You could hear a saxophone player playing that.

UNKNOWN:

MUSIC PLAYS

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, absolutely. So you've done 19 videos so far in total. And as you said, the last one you've done is actually a trumpet. I think all the others are saxophones. They are, yeah. Generally alto and tenor saxophones. That's right. So the first one you do is a very, very nice song called Hip Couple by Jeff Barry.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you start off quite simple.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely, yeah. I wasn't even sure when I did that who the saxophone player was. I thought it might well be King Curtis because he was around New York at that time and played on a number of rock and roll records because, I mean, Hip Couple is a sort of a novelty rock and roll song. But somebody in the comments with the video did tell me that it was in fact King Curtis. And it's very simple. I mean, it's very simple, but it's such a great line.

SPEAKER_00:

And then the next one that's a great song I really love is Kidney Stew. So this is an alto saxophone. You've got the alto sax and then you've got you playing it on harp as well and then that. You know, just getting those different ideas, yeah, from the saxophone.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right. Well, we used

SPEAKER_00:

to do Kidney Stew in Ricky Cooling the Iceberg, so that was in my head. And so, yeah, you move through. There's another one, Blue Jean, which is a very kind of mellow kind of...

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah, Jean Ammons. Fabulous.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and then I think, is it that one where you've got this kind of very subtle kind of slow bends that he's doing on the saxophone? That's right, yes, yes. He's playing

SPEAKER_03:

sub-tone.

SPEAKER_02:

The thing that really got me about that one is the fact that on that opening riff... Now, I don't know if I'm in the same key as him now. I'm just picking up a harmonica at random. And he finishes on that bent note. It's not what you would naturally sort of think to play. You know, you'd probably think... Yeah. So to finish on the seventh, you know, it's just one of those little things that... as a harmonica player you can do, which kind of, it just

SPEAKER_00:

grabs people's attention. That's something about these saxophone players. I mean, some of these saxophone players were, you know, the serious musicians, right? They probably spent like 15 hours every day playing the saxophone right so they've really dug deep into it and uh you know so it's good to take ideas from those guys who've gone so deeply isn't

SPEAKER_02:

it oh yeah well i mean of course the thing we have to remember is that those guys were playing every night of the week you know 300 plus times a year we're not able to do that now you know live music is different those guys had got serious chops

SPEAKER_00:

yeah a really good thing about the the series that you've done is it's a really good way to discover all these different saxophone players you know i mean many of us you know i've heard of the famous ones charlie potter and obviously Miles Davis playing trumpet but you know you really you know to be able to dig through all these different saxophone players yeah it is a really great resource from that you know so people can go and check them out and go actually yeah you know this is a really good you know way to sort of think about other ideas

SPEAKER_02:

absolutely that's the beauty of YouTube isn't

SPEAKER_00:

it and you've got uh Louis Jordan I know is a big favorite of yours you've got him doing a rumba a blues rumba which you think might be the first blues rumba early in the morning

SPEAKER_02:

early in the morning yeah it could well have been There was that period of time in jazz, and it spilled over into rhythm and blues, where Afro-Cuban music was so popular, particularly in New York. And of course, Louis Jordan, being the star he was, would have been traveling all over. So he would have heard a lot of that music. And of course, then he composed early in the morning.

UNKNOWN:

Bye.

SPEAKER_02:

And of course, the blues rumba is like a standard form. You know, if you went to a good blues jam in anywhere around LA or something like that, if you were living in the States, you know, you could call a blues rumba and they'd know exactly what to play.

SPEAKER_00:

And then the song you do, it's a Horace Silver song, Geordie Grind. You do this one as a third position. So what made you choose third position for that on harmonica rather than second? It

SPEAKER_02:

really is just the motif that I listened to and experimenting with it. It will have had a minor feel. It kind of just suggests third position.

SPEAKER_00:

And one thing you do quite a lot is because obviously the saxophones are playing in sort of B-flat and E-flat and A-flat and things, you quite often sort of go to a C-harp so that most people have got the harmonica needed as well, yeah?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, the horn keys are not necessarily the harmonicas that people are going to have, say apart from the B-flat, which of course is one of the common ones. Yeah, so what I do like to transpose to a different key harmonica, but of course the point is once you've tabbed it out, and I've given people that resource, then it applies to any harmonica

SPEAKER_00:

you want to play. And an interesting comment you made on Is Everything Alright, another of the songs you do, is how saxophones, because you can only blow on saxophones, you've kind of got natural stops because you kind of run out of breath. Absolutely. I think one of the biggest

SPEAKER_02:

faults for harmonica players, particularly inexperienced players, is because you obviously can make a sound by blowing or drawing through the instrument, is to play all the time. And you'll get some people who get up and play and they don't understand about playing behind somebody else or leaving some space for the groove of the band to come through. As a saxophone player, you naturally have to make pauses before to take breath. A lot of beginner and sort of inexperienced harmonica players will just sort of play all the time rather than thinking about the overall Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

and I think another really good point that you pull out from the sax solos you've done is how they play phrases. Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

A lot of, as I say, beginner or not very experienced harmonica players will just sort of play all over the instrument without thinking about what they're actually trying to say.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and so you can take some great inspiration from these players, yeah. And you've got Lucille, which is a little richer song, which you're a massive fan of that, a great solo on that as well.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, fantastic resource. So yeah, definitely recommend people check it out. Is there any of the 19 so far that you think particularly sit brilliantly on the harmonica, or is it all of them?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, they all work. It depends. Like, for instance, the one where I was looking at Maceo Parker and his sort of funk style playing.

UNKNOWN:

.

SPEAKER_02:

I particularly like that one because his phrases are so short, those little short stabs. You can tell that really... Part of him is actually listening to the James Brown band and the groove that they're laying down and then sort of fitting in that like almost like a percussion instrument. You know, if you're playing any sort of a funky style groove on the harmonica, that's just a great way to approach it is think of yourself as though you're a percussion instrument. Whenever I play, particularly if I'm playing blues, I always try to have a picture in my head for want of a better thing if I was playing some sort of slow blues number I might in my head be seeing myself in some sort of nightclub and try to sort of help that inform how I should be playing the instrument.

SPEAKER_00:

And then of course you do do other teaching videos as well you know you do some Sonny Boy and some sort of Tongue Slapping so you've got other teaching videos as well but for the saxophone ones obviously you've been a saxophone player for quite a long time this Mississippi saxophone is quite a recent thing do you think it has changed the way that you're approaching your harmonica playing now? I

SPEAKER_02:

would say say so. I mean, obviously right now I'm playing sort of more Jamaican music than sort of rhythm and blues or blues. Although having said that, one of the other gigs I do at the moment is with a guy called Chicken Bone John, who's a manufacturer of cigar box guitars. So it's very much rural Delta music. blues that I'm playing with him. And I would say that listening to all those saxophone players has informed the way I sort of approach my playing behind Chicken Bone John as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I I'll ask my 10 minute question now and maybe you can make it relevant particularly to this saxophone series. So if you had 10 minutes to practice with the Mississippi saxophone in mind, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, if I'd only got 10 minutes to practice, I'm pretty certain part of my head would be thinking about, oh gosh, what have I got to be doing today? And all the other things I'm supposed to be doing and I can only fit 10 minutes in. So the first thing is just breathe in and out through the harmonica and work from the low end to the high end. Just play chords in and out for one minute just to sort of settle my breathing and to settle my head. I think that's really important and it'll warm the instrument up as well. And then I might take a particular lick that I want to sort of work on and really practice that lick or motif and then try applying it to a backing track and play along with a backing track. So yeah, if I was particularly had those Mississippi saxophone videos in mind, I would do my little breathing exercise first through the instrument just to get myself in the zone, if you like, and then work on one of those little licks and motifs and try applying it to a backing track.

SPEAKER_00:

I think applying it with backing tracks is a great idea, isn't it? Because often you learn something, but actually then trying to fit it in in context and play it in the right time and everything, that's the next stage that you really need to master as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think you're right. The ones that I... particularly go to from MCCD sessions. I mean, they're just so good. You'd be hard pressed to find a band in this country who's going to play as well as those backing tracks.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. No, I'll definitely check out those backing tracks. Yeah. You're definitely raving about them. Yeah. So, so yeah. And so obviously you're the singer, you talked about being the front man. So you do, you've always been the singer.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. You can't shake it further, baby Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

so I have a lot to think about when I'm on stage because I've got to sing, I've got to entertain the crowd if I can, I've got to know where my saxophone is because I've got to pick it up quickly and I've got to know where all my harmonicas are. Yeah, I have my harmonicas very, very carefully arranged on a little tray which I attach to my mic stand and I just have to hope that the lighting at the gig and my eyesight is going to be good enough to pick up the correct one at the correct time.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. That reminds me, when I was young, I was playing in a band and I had to go to the toilet or whatever, and they came back and they'd rearranged all my harmonicas, which was not nice.

SPEAKER_02:

I believe that Brownie McGee used to do that to Sonny Terry, you know, with his harmonica belt. When they weren't getting on, he used to swap them all around.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but he only played an A harmonica pretty much. Well,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah, you're right.

SPEAKER_00:

Occasionally B flat. So you're a stalwart of the UK NH Health festivals, and there's a video of you playing in 1988. I've got to say, Ricky, you haven't changed much during that. that time what's your

SPEAKER_02:

secret you're being very kind

SPEAKER_00:

um so let's get on to uh the last section now talking about the gear you use so um harmonica wise what brand do you like to play

SPEAKER_02:

my sort of go-to harmonica is the marine band deluxe i use some crossovers as well since i found out that the reed plates on the crossover are exactly the same as the deluxe i tend to go for the deluxe because it's cheaper the difference the little bit of extra brightness you get with a crossover doesn't really impact on me that much. So the Marine Band Deluxe.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think you're trying some custom ones recently, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I've got a couple which were made by Andrew Zajac, who's a Hohner-affiliated customizer who's based in Canada, mainly because I really like his repair videos on YouTube. I think they're fantastic. And Andrew has done a couple for me. I have to say they are wonderful instruments. I mean, they're a

SPEAKER_00:

joy to play. You know, Allergist Harmonica's And I definitely make them more playable, but is that something you've done?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I do. I'll tune my own harmonicas up and I'll sand the reed plate on the draw side so that it's making a better seal with the comb of the harmonica, that type of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So you're improving it, but do you feel that buying the customized one, you really are getting something much better in it and obviously it's worth paying for that customized one?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I

SPEAKER_02:

think so. I wouldn't have a whole set. I couldn't justify that. I mean, the two that I had, I had a C and a B flat because those are the two that I predominantly use. They are different. The richness of the sound, the chords are so beautiful to play, the feel of the harmonica. I mean, Andrew, like most of us, customizers makes his own cones as well. I think if you've reached a pretty good standard on the instrument, it would be nice to invest in just one, you know, one custom harmonica just to see what they're like. I mean, one of the other motivating factors for me was I've never really been an overblow player, although I am interested in overblows. I've always loved on Adam Gussow's videos, the little licks that he does, which includes some overblows and they sound great. I have experimented and tried And I thought one of the reasons for getting a couple of custom harmonicas was, you know, if I've got a couple of custom harmonicas, there's no way that I can make the excuse of saying, well, the instrument isn't quite

SPEAKER_00:

set up right. And we talked about above how you've been trying out some different, you've got this tremolo from Seidel and you also have a 364 marine band, which is a 12 hole.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. What the driving factor is for me is the song. If the song warrants blue style harmonica, then, you know, I would be going for my Marine Band Deluxe. But if the song warrants something else... I'll use different tunings. So, for instance, for reggae, the Leosca Melody Maker tuning is fabulous. You know, particularly those later reggae numbers, which tend to be on two chords, which the root chord and then the Dorian minor chord. Like, for instance, on a G Melody Maker. So you've got the draw chord and then the blow chord, which gives me the minor. So, you know... You're immediately in the realms of Dennis Brown, money in my pocket, and I just can't get no love.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so you definitely use different tune types then.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's dictated by the song. What about when you're playing the saxophone lines, are you tending to play Richter-tuned second position stuff and then third position a little bit as well?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, they'll be all Richter-tuned. It's predominantly second position, but again, on particular licks, it'll be third position as well. And sometimes with those third position licks, a solo-tuned harmonica can be quite nice because it kind of gives you that rich chord that you get from a chromatic when you play third position chromatic.

SPEAKER_00:

And you do play some chromatic as well?

SPEAKER_02:

I do. With the For band, we've got two or three numbers where I use chromatic. It's third position that I'm predominantly playing, but because the numbers might not be traditional blues numbers, for instance, in our set at the moment, we do Bessame Mucho, which is great for third position chromatic, but of course is going to involve playing some lines which aren't just the stock blues chromatic lines.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, a lot of people who play jazz would use a chromatic to do that, and therefore... You know, you might think, well, the saxophone lines might work better on a chromatic, but they don't have the same power and oomph as a diatonic, do they? So you find, you know, obviously you've done all your videos with the diatonic and not chromatic, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02:

And of course, the ones that I'm using in my series as well, the sax players are often doing lots of little bends and scoops and things like that and other little techniques, which are just great on the harmonica, on the diatonic particularly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So

SPEAKER_02:

what about your embouchure? What do you like to use? I use both. When I started playing, when I learned, when I was shut up in the bedroom on my own with records and not knowing anyone else, I learned pucker. In fact, I never even really thought about it. It was just what I thought you did. I didn't really understand or know about tongue blocking at that time. For a long time, I didn't really know what tongue blocking was. But now, if I'm playing melodically, I will tongue block pucker. pretty much all the time if i'm playing blues style i will tongue block but from time to time we'll switch to the pucker embouchure just because i suppose in a way that was the way i learned so i i use both and what about amplifiers i've got a fender baseman reissue which i have used a lot in the past i don't use now when i'm playing with chicken bone john i use um A Supra amp, one of the new Supra amps. It's called the Delta King 10. It's just a little 10 watt amp, but it's great because it's got a line out. So you can put your line out into a DI box and then go into the PA. Works really well for me on those gigs. With the band, I play through the PA, but I have a dedicated microphone. I'm using one of the Ultimate 58s with the volume control on it. When I switch to chromatic, I can just turn it on. turn it up a little bit. I've tried playing through an amp when I'm playing with the band, but I've just got so much to think about. Having an amp to sort of mess around with as well is just too much.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, like you say, a lot of your part you're playing, you're playing reggae and stuff, aren't you? Well,

SPEAKER_02:

yes, it doesn't necessarily want that sort of distorted amplified sound.

SPEAKER_00:

And do you use any effects?

SPEAKER_02:

When I play with Chicken Bone John, I use a little bit of delay. There is some reverb on the Supro Delta King, so I'll put a little bit of reverb on from the amp And then I hook up through a delay pedal, a Lone Wolf one, harp delay. And I'll just put a little bit of slapback echo on, which I will trigger on certain numbers and on other numbers I won't use.

SPEAKER_00:

You've got some gigs coming up with your Ricky Kool and the In Crowd on your...

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Well, not until October with Ricky Kool and the In Crowd. I'm playing with Chicken Bone John this Friday. I

SPEAKER_00:

know you're going to be doing some more Mississippi saxophone videos.

SPEAKER_02:

I will. You know, it could be that I might delve into some other trumpet players as well. I'll or keep them coming because I do enjoy doing

SPEAKER_00:

them. And of course, it's a great way for you to learn, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it helps me. It helps me incredibly, you know, because it makes me go back and really sort of examine some of those players that I've listened to over the years.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And again, a great resource. So yeah, people definitely want to check them out. So thanks so much for joining me today. Tricky Dicky. Oh, sorry. I mean, Ricky Cool.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Thank you. It's been a long time since I've been called Tricky Dicky.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast and be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Many thanks to Ricky, and I urge you all to check out his Mississippi Saxophone videos on YouTube. The link is on the podcast page. Thanks again for listening, and thanks to White Rock Lake Real Estate for the donation to the podcast. Please check out the website at happyhourharmonica.com. I'll leave you with Ricky to play us out with the T-Bone Shuffle, inspired by the saxophone playing of Hubert Maxwell Bumps Myers.

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.