Rocky Lok interview

Rocky Lok joins me on episode 79.
Rocky lives in Hong Kong, where there is a vibrant harmonica scene. Harmonica is taught in many schools there, which is how Rocky got started playing himself almost 50 years ago. He went on to become part of the King's Harmonica Quintet which has played many prestigious concerts, including in front of an audience of twenty thousand, as part of the 2008 Beijing Olympics torch procession and winning the group competition at the World Harmonica Championship in Trossingen. 
Rocky is a former president of the Hong Kong Harmonica Association where he was involved in setting-up the Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival and is regular judge in the competitions. He also helped organise the current Guinness world record of the most harmonicas playing together, officially 6131 people in Hong Kong.

Links:

King’s Harmonica Quintet:
www.KHQ.HK  

Hong Kong Harmonica Association:
www.hkharmonica.org

The first Hong Kong International Chromatic Harmonica Competition, 2022:
www.ICHC.hkharmonica.org

The first Hong Kong International Composition Competition for Chromatic Harmonica 2021:
https://iccch.hkharmonica.org/

Details on the different chromatics Rocky plays:
https://www.myharmonicastudio.com/rocky-lok-incredible-harmonica-collection/

The 13th Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival 2022:
http://hxharmonica.com/en/index.asp

Upcoming King’s Harmonica Quintet show:
https://www.hk.artsfestival.org/en/programme/kings_harmonica_quintet

Videos:
King's Harmonica Quintet playlist:
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1NSxVDARfeZu9bfK9iviZlnBZGCMU2nM

Rocky playing solo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEiWkVf_Fbs&list=PL1NSxVDARfeYAmUSmjwMlGpCVpdgW_ZxG

Rocky interview with Hohner from 2012:
https://www.hohner.de/en/rocky-lok

The 13th Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival 2022 concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wJyOhzjBa0&list=PL1NSxVDARfealNufMH0jw_sum_cYRbM2q

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions:

Chapters

• 1:29 Rocky lives in Hong Kong and has been a central part in the thriving harmonica scene there
• 1:43 Where Rocky’s name comes from (and no, he doesn’t box)
• 2:16 Got started on harmonica at a school club in 1976 when he joined the Hong Kong King’s College band (first formed in 1951)
• 2:46 Had a toy harmonica in the drawer at home which he could use in the club as had no money to buy an instrument
• 3:35 Harmonica groups are prevalent in Hong Kong
• 4:25 Harmonica was very popular in Hong in the 1950s / 1960s, declined somewhat but has become popular again in last twenty years
• 5:15 Other areas in Asia where harmonica is taught in schools include Singapore and Kuala Lumpur
• 6:21 Harmonica popular instrument in Hong Kong due to cheapness of instrument and convenient size, not connected to the original instrument: Chinese Sheng
• 7:26 Chromatic harmonicas can be as expensive as many other instruments
• 7:49 Popularity of harmonica goes in cycles both in Asia and in the West
• 9:05 Orchestral and tremolo harmonicas are the most popular in Asia, not so much the diatonic
• 10:38 Harmonica festivals: Asia Pacific and Seoul International festivals have helped development of harmonica in Asia
• 11:31 Asia composers have been writing music for harmonica for last 20-30 years
• 12:09 Rocky learnt double bass when younger but now only plays harmonica
• 13:19 Rocky who won various harmonica competitions when younger and now is a regular competition judge at the Asian festivals
• 15:32 Rocky has been a member of the Kings Harmonica Quintet since 1987
• 17:06 The Quintet received support from the Hong Kong government
• 17:46 Quintet performed internationally and teach the younger generation
• 18:27 Quintet involved in running the Hong Kong Harmonica Association
• 19:08 The members of the Quintet all live in Hong Kong and still practise every week after being together for 36 years
• 19:32 Had the same five members from 1987 until 2015, when one member left (now replaced), and also used subs when someone couldn’t make it
• 20:29 Instruments in the Quintet are 2 12 hole chromatics, 2 16 hole chromatics and a bass harmonica as arranged string quartet music initially
• 21:31 Use the single layer Tombo bass harmonica (not double-decker bass harmonica), allowing bass to play more melody
• 22:09 Have two ‘tenor’ chromatics to increase loudness of this range in the Quintet and the range available for treble harmonicas
• 22:56 Don’t use a microphone when performing
• 23:12 Usually tune the harmonicas in the Quintet before a performance
• 24:03 Performed during the handover of Hong Kong from the UK back to China in 1997
• 25:37 Won the group category at Trossingen World Harmonica Championships in 1997
• 26:06 Government in Hong Kong said they were World Champions after winning in Trossingen, which isn’t quite the same thing, but it got the Quintet some good financial support
• 28:16 Played in a Cantopop concert to an audience of 20,000 for seven nights in a row and the technical set-up for the Quintet behind such a big concert
• 31:43 Played during the broadcast when the 2008 Beijing Olympic Torch was passing through Hong Kong, to an audience of at least 100 million people in China
• 34:16 Played live to 25,000 people in Taiwan
• 34:34 Rocky involved in organising the current Guiness World record of the most harmonicas playing together, officially 6131 people, on November 13th 2009, in Hong Kong
• 38:09 The previous record was set in Trossingen, around 2000 consecutive harmonicas played together
• 38:17 How 6131 harmonicas playing together sounded and plans to beat the record again
• 38:53 Rocky also plays some harmonica outside of the Kings Harmonica Quintet, including with a ‘real’ harp player
• 40:20 Rocky was the President of the Hong Kong Harmonica Association for five years, and now is a Director
• 41:40 The Association involvement in the Asia Pacific Harmonica and Seoul Festival
• 42:22 Three of the five members of the Kings Harmonica Quintet have been President of the Hong Kong Harmonica Association
• 42:43 What the Hong Kong Harmonica Association does
• 43:57 Organises concerts in Shanghai
• 44:41 Rocky is an International Endorser for Hohner and what that involves
• 46:49 Rocky is a collector of harmonica with around 800 harmonicas, many of which can’t be purchased in stores
• 48:18 Will be exhibiting collection in April 2023 at the Hong Kong Association chromatic competition
• 48:44 More on the chromatic competition with judging panel made up of not musicians who are not just chromatic harmonica players
• 49:12 26 finalists in the competition, whose travel costs are covered by Hong Kong government and details of the competition format
• 50:23 Winner of the competition will win equivalents of 12,500 dollars (also prizes for places below the winner)
• 50:46 Entries are closed for the competition now
• 51:13 There is also a chromatic harmonica composition competition, also funded by the Hong Kong government
• 52:52 10 minute question
• 53:52 Rocky’s favourite chromatic harmonica is hard to say because everyone has different needs
• 55:38 Embouchre is mostly pucker
• 56:00 Does use chromatics in keys besides C
• 56:22 Music reading
• 57:30 Future plans

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Rocky Locke joins me on episode 79. Rocky lives in Hong Kong where there is a vibrant harmonica scene. Harmonica is taught in many schools there, which is how Rocky got started playing himself some 50 plus years ago. He went on to become part of the King's Harmonica Quintet, which has played many prestigious concerts, including in front of an audience of 20,000 as part of the 2008 Beijing Olympics and winning the group competition at the World Harmonica Championship in Trossingen. Rocky is the former president of the Hong Kong Harmonica Association, where he was involved in setting up the Asia-Pacific Harmonica Festival and is a regular judge in the competitions. He also helped organise the current Guinness World Record of the most harmonicas playing together, officially 6,131 people in Hong Kong, in 2009. This podcast is sponsored by Zidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world, at www.zidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidel Harmonicas. Hello, Rocky Locke, and welcome to the podcast. Nice to meet you over here. So we're talking to you, Rocky, in Hong Kong. Yep, yeah, I am. Great, so we're going to delve into the Hong Kong harmonica scene, which you've been a really integral part of, and, you know, a really great scene that you've got over there by the looks of things.

SPEAKER_01: 1:43

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 1:43

Well, first of all, let's start with your name, because it's a great name, Rocky. Where's that name come from?

SPEAKER_01: 1:48

Actually, you know, my Chinese syllable is Loc Ying Kei. And then Kate and Locke is basically very close to the, you know, fanatics of Rocky. Actually, some of my friends make jokes on me that even the American star Stallone, he was stealing my name in the olden time.

SPEAKER_04: 2:06

Did you have it first?

SPEAKER_01: 2:08

Yes, I did. I did it first, like something like 40, 50 years ago.

SPEAKER_04: 2:12

You're not a boxer then?

SPEAKER_01: 2:14

I am not, of course.

SPEAKER_04: 2:16

So what got you started off playing harmonica? I understand you joined the Hong Kong King's College Harmonica Band. and that's what got you started, is that right? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 2:25

you know, talking about the King's College Harmonica Bank, it just ran through 70 years of history since the establishment in 1951. I got the chance of being admitted in the year of 76, and it had been a tradition of the school that every junior high student got to have a sports and also a cultural education on top of your book work. So at that time, when Hong Kong was still in this poverty, I chose harmonica simply because of the reason in that there's a toy harmonica in the drawer of my humble room and then I have to choose this because I don't have the money to spend on other disciplines. So I started my harmonica journey almost for 50 years now.

SPEAKER_04: 3:06

Was this a school band or was this outside of school?

SPEAKER_01: 3:08

It is a school band ranging from a first former to seven formers, you know, like the British system in the olden days. So the students are taking courses around the age of 12, taught by senior students That's fantastic that

SPEAKER_04: 3:35

you've got harmonica bands. Is that quite common in Hong Kong or was it just this school which had a harmonica band?

SPEAKER_01: 3:42

During the 50s or 60s, Hong Kong was still not yet a commercial centre, a financial commercial centre in the world. So the people are having less than the nowadays available choices in their hobbies. So playing with harmonicas or playing with a simple Chinese instrument or doing those kind of chess, simple extracurricular activities are quite normal in those days. During the 60s or 70s, about 20 if not 30 people primary or secondary school did have their harmonica band inside the school. So we are playing inside the school, and also we are playing outside the school in those inter-school activities. It is quite popular in the 50s, 60s, 70s, but encountering a kind of downtrending starting the 80s when the Hong Kong economy started its upsurge. And until the recent 20 years, the trend seems to be coming back thanks to the more advanced design of instrument, more composers started to write for us. Nowadays, we are coming back to the historical scene by having 20, 30 or even 40 schools, including universities, having harmonica group or harmonica band or even harmonica orchestra inside their academic establishments.

SPEAKER_04: 5:08

Yeah, that's fantastic and fantastic for the harmonica to have such a swell of teaching at that level of young people. Is that unique to Hong Kong or is there other countries in Asia which follow a similar model?

SPEAKER_01: 5:21

It is, I would say, quite related to the demography of the country or how people are packed together in city centre. We are living densely and then that created a simplicity and convenience for harmonica playing after school for adults who are already working in the society. we have three lives, the business life, the social life after six, and then I lay dinner back home by 11, 12, and then starting another day. So the living condition in Hong Kong is quite suitable for this kind of grooming of the packed harmonica playing culture. Similarly applicable to Singapore, similarly applicable to Kuala Lumpur, and also Tokyo and other countries where living conditions are similarly comparable. But of course, when I try to compare this with U.S. counterpart or Canada, where some of my friends had immigrant They miss this kind of convenience where they can easily enjoy group playing, group game, you know, every day in a week.

SPEAKER_04: 6:21

Do you know why the harmonica particularly was chosen? I know you've already touched on there that I think in the history of Hong Kong, it was quite a poor place. And so, you know, the harmonica was cheap. So maybe that was one reason. I mean, we associate in the West and Europe and the US, certainly, that, you know, the harmonica kind of came from Germany. But of course, originally, the Chinese show was the first sort of harmonica. So do you feel that Was it part of that connection to that original Chinese instrument or, you know, what other reason for the harmonica being chosen?

SPEAKER_01: 6:52

Actually, if you stand on today's scene, you know, the shang and the harmonica basically had departed from each other for so long a time. People even missed the interpretation that shang is actually the ancestor of harmonica as far as sounding mechanism is concerned. You know, harmonica is seen to be cheap. Yes, it could be in the ten-hole harmonicas, the diatonic or the chime could be, but bear in mind that even, you know, the ten-hole harmonica diatonic or tremolo harmonica could be particularly expensive. I would say non-economical. And then when talking about the chromatic, prices could be comparable to a western standard instrument. I quote in the, you know, sterling pounds, in the range of a thousand pounds or even ten thousand pounds. Particularly coming up with those latest customizers, designers, or you know, the certain, the you know high-end you know the models coming from the factories back to harmonica you know asia versus the west it's a matter of cycle if we look back into the i mean a typical trio setup like the marie's you know the harmonic cat or many other big names, like the Father McGonagall of the Netherlands or the Adler Trio of Israel. They were, you know, the top of the top in the 50s, 60s, 70s. And then when the, you know, Western age, aging situation had not, been as serious as nowadays. People are having more time in playing this humble instrument in their backyard, school, home or social arena. Asia, Hong Kong follow the footprint very much closely. Similar evolution of the aging situation. Even nowadays we are seeing quite a big group of people playing harmonica. I'm not sure in 20 to 30 years time whether this instrument would be stepping onto their sunset era following the rest. I have no idea but can hope that this moment would not come so soon.

SPEAKER_04: 9:05

One thing which is probably notable is that there's lots of orchestral orchestras harmonicas being used in Hong Kong yes all chromatics and chords and basses because you're playing in trios and up to orchestra sizes so is that fair to say that most people are playing orchestral and chromatic harmonicas and not so much diatonic or you know how popular is the diatonic harmonica over there

SPEAKER_01: 9:26

I think it is quite related to the cultural evolution in this part of the world say when the Filipinos they are good at rhythm good at singing good at guitar good at drumming but many of the Orientals are less good in these areas so if you talk about Asia or even Hong Kong as a mediator playing ten holes diatonic harmonica are quite a minority but it does not mean that we don't have you know the excellent player but in terms of quantity we are less comparable to the States or the Europe I mean by large because you know by default you know playing jazz or blues are not the mainstream over here. The second third of the three thirds of harmonica is the tremolo, which is more for the folk playing, like, you know, the Chinese folk songs, like, you know, Korean folk songs, Japanese folk songs. By Chinese, it includes the mainland, the Taiwanese, and also other parts of the world where Chinese community are everywhere. So those kind of folk songs are best deployed with the tremolo harmonica. Back to the chromatic harmonica, where you described that more people are playing It is thanks to the evolution in the past 30 years that there are uncountable harmonica festivals being held in this part of the world. The Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival since middle of the 90s, every even years. And it is so international harmonica festival since 2013, every year since then. And we have these harmonica festivals. We have people coming out to work on to harmonica music, playing harmonica music, teaching or nurturing you know the schools as their main career and the people are starting to take the you know the harmonica performance in the choice of education in university or other music institute people are making a decent life by way of earnings comparable to 10 to 20 or 30 years ago composers are starting to write original music dedicated to chromatic harmonicas for the past 20 or 30 years all these added together helped to create a bigger group of, I would say, decent audience so that we have better stages for people to grow around harmonica music making circles so that it is becoming bigger and bigger when comparing to other parts of the world.

SPEAKER_04: 12:09

Other instrument-wise, I think you played some double bass. I do. Did you start that after you started playing harmonica?

SPEAKER_01: 12:17

You know, my very first musical instrument lesson started when I was still a teen, like at my age of 12, as I first admitted to the Hong Kong King's College. Of course, you know, I then was admitted to the harmonica band, and then the people were talking about something as a diversification away from just playing harmonica. So I started my double bass lesson when I was 15. And then by 16 or 17, I was admitted to another Western instrumental orchestra playing the double bass part and also playing in certain Chinese, you know, the orchestra. So all this worked out for me as a double bassist since I was 15 all the way until I was mid-20s or late-20s, whereby I totally stopped for career reasons. I don't have the time to deploy anymore for too many things at one time.

SPEAKER_04: 13:15

Sure, yeah. So you devoted yourself to harmonica. Good to hear that. I think I've talked to the Asian players and people who visit Asia. Competitions are quite a big thing over there, aren't they, for the people? And you won a competition yourself, well, various competitions yourself in the 1980s when you were young, yeah?

SPEAKER_01: 13:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 13:34

So what role do competitions play in the harmonica scene over there?

SPEAKER_01: 13:39

Competition is basically a very important element for the musical instrument learning journey. Particularly good for starting during the teens age. Like for myself, my very first champion was data all the way back. when I was 15. And then, you know, for my own, as a soloist competition, I participated in a solo competition in the Hong Kong Festival when I was 10. And then I participated in the World Harmonica Festival in 1995 and 1996, winning a certain position, although not the first three. And then thereafter, I started to be judges for World Harmonica Festival, Asia Pacific, Seoul International, and also certain of the Hong Kong local harmonica competition or festival competition. So I saw my own shadows, like the later comers. of my students, students, students, students. So they participated in the competition as part of their learning. Certain non-harmonica players are invited as well. They are musicians, they are vocalists, they are conductors, they are music teachers, not necessarily in the area of harmonica. So if you talk about the function of competition leading to further enhancement of the harmonica playing, Competition is basically a very indispensable element, but the more important thing is involve more people who are not harmonicists, and then they yet share your joy and share your philosophy of enabling harmonica to be a full, recognizable instrument comparable to the violin or flute or the guitar or the saxophone whatsoever.

SPEAKER_04: 15:32

Talking some more about your own playing then. So you've been part of the King's Harmonica Quintet for a while since, I think? 87. The

SPEAKER_01: 15:56

quintet collaboration has actually started almost 10 years before 87, when we five were still, you know, the common alumnus of the same secondary school. Why? Because we are all coming from different years of the same school. And then we are playing a little bit better than the others. So we play and play and play. Even we graduated from secondary, we enter into different universities. We make use of the weekend and play together. And then soon when we are approaching graduation, I mean, at the age of 23, 24, so we are facing a threat that we are no longer having good opportunity of coming to play together. So we started off with an idea of continuing the hobby. So we created this King's Harmonical Quintet in 87. And then since 87, we practice, practice, practice. to prepare for our premier concert in 90. And then we do concert and concert and concert again until we step overseas in 95 and 97, the competition in World Harmonica Festival, gaining good position. We return back to Hong Kong, talking to the government, and it's actually starting 97, which is the 10th anniversary of the establishment of the quintet. We receive whatever kind of government support. We were given, I mean, a monetary reward whenever we took our students overseas for attending festivals we were given a good venue like the concert hall or the theatre whenever we are organising the concert or we are using the venue for festivals we got the venue support and then as time goes on the Quintet interacts with the professional orchestras and then we perform both in Hong Kong and overseas and it is like a layer after layer we are overlaying onto our part I mean accomplishment. So that nowadays we are still keeping on the effort and the fire is still on. And then we are taking our students of the students of the students of the students of our own students to overseas. So it is like a kind of a generation after generation. For myself, the King's Harmonica Quintet is a major segment. I myself still, you know, involved in certain solo engagement, both locally and overseas, but in a less massive scale when compared to the quintet. And V5 also collaborated with other, you know, sort of enthusiasts in operating the Hong Kong Harmonica Association. I mean, they're working on to an even bigger scale than a chamber group. We are organizing the regional festivals, international events, both taking Hong Kong people outside or taking overseas people into Hong Kong.

SPEAKER_04: 18:50

That's fantastic. So you get government support for your activities, which is amazing, you know, great to see.

SPEAKER_01: 18:56

Very much, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 18:58

Yeah, which again, we probably don't get to see so much in the West, certainly in the UK where I am. And so the group's been going now for what, 36 years this year? Correct. So you all live in Hong Kong, do you? So you can all physically get together to practice? I think you still practice every week, do you?

SPEAKER_01: 19:13

Correct. Normally, our practicing time would be either Saturday evening or Sunday afternoon.

SPEAKER_04: 19:32

So, I believe one of your members left recently, but have you had basically the same members for all that time?

SPEAKER_01: 19:38

Since 87, we have been together all the way until 2015, when one of us, you know, they elect to immigrate to Australia for good. For the first, you know, 28 years, since 87 to 2015, we have been playing together. And occasionally, due to work commitment, certain of us may not be able to turn up. So the refund replacement, having regard to the technical ability and the musical cooperative, you know, the quality we have replacement for the first 28 years already. So this time with the departure of one of us, you know, we selected very regularly another one who is able to go along with us for the West. So starting 2015, this replacement have been with us for more of the occasion than the other replacements.

SPEAKER_04: 20:29

So talking about the lineup of the quintet then, so I understand you play the tenor harmonica, which is...

SPEAKER_01: 20:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_04: 20:35

Explain what that is and the other harmonicas in the group.

SPEAKER_01: 20:38

Okay, the quintet journey started back in 87. We have been arranging different types of music formations for 10 years before we started the quintet formation in 87. So the very first music we arranged are basically string quartets. Why string quartets? First, they are more challenging than other pieces. And then, why not others? Because others are less applicable for our quintet formation. Back to the formation, you know, with a quintet, we have two persons playing the 12-fold harmonicas, which we name them as treble. We have two persons playing the 16, we name them tenors. Why tenors? Because, you know, the first two missed the lower registers when we go for the middle voices, which is an accent of the music. depending on what music it is. So the fifth one is a bass. We don't engage the double decker. We engage the tombo blended single decker, you know, the bass having two octaves from middle C all the way down to the double bass with two staff line on the below. So the five together embraces something like six octaves, if not more. The reason for not using the double decker is that single decker can enable the bass to play more legato melody because there is no drum between the decks, no lower deck and upper deck, where the physics of moving from one to the other must involve a separation of the notes. And then the reason why we have two tenors when compared to a string quartet, which is violin, violin, viola, cello, is because of the natural limitation of harmonica. Middle voices are lower in voice, in volume, I mean. So we have to double up the tenors. And then another reason for doubling up the tenors is that the two trebles, some cannot go together beyond the middle C on the lower direction. Then in these cases, the two tenors would pick up whatever that are missing from the two trebles. So the two tenors sometimes would move up, sometimes would move down to bridge up the gap between the bass and the tenors. So the five all together work up as so specific a formation in the harmonica world. We don't use chord. We don't use double decker. And most importantly, we don't use a microphone. So in a hall of 300, 400, 500 audience, we use the true sound of harmonica for projection.

SPEAKER_04: 23:06

No microphones on stands. Correct. Unplugged. So they must listen very closely, the audience. So what about tuning the chromatics, particularly if you're playing the same range of chromatics, do you have to make sure that they are really tuned very closely together? Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 23:22

And then we all turn on to a frequency of 442 for whatever, you know, the physics. reasons or for whatever, you know, the musical sense reasons. We tune. And actually, you know, we are tuning every instrument whenever there is any concert upcoming. We tune for everybody, you know, two to three sets. One being the, you know, the default usage and the other two being backup.

SPEAKER_04: 23:46

Yeah, so tuning is, as you say, very key. That's good to hear. So let's talk about some of the great things you've done with the Quintet and also by yourself as well. So, you know, you guys have done some great shows and, you know, you've been on the radio and television over there in Hong Kong and elsewhere So, you know, picking some of the things out that you've done. So you did the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region, a solitary handover. Is that when Hong Kong went back to China?

SPEAKER_01: 24:11

Correct. You know, that was the year 1997 when British government hand over the administration of Hong Kong back to China. And it was in 2007, the 10th anniversary of the handover. The Radio Television Hong Kong, which is supposed to be the official radio for Hong Kong. The government runs the stations, having many channels and many radio and TVs, and now it's also onto the internet segment. They compiled, they set the title being gifted, CD audio compilation. The Quintet was one of the invitees, and so the five of us, we have a special arrangement for Enescu's Romanian Rhapsody, number one and then there is a very special arrangement where five of us play together picking up all the parts of the orchestra together with one of our juniors who is also a world champion in the world harmonica festival 2005 in trotsingen germany so the six of us you know then make up that uh you know the recording

SPEAKER_04: 25:37

And in the same year, in 1997, you mentioned the World Harmonica Championship. So you guys won the championship. That was with Dvorak, the American quartet song.

SPEAKER_01: 26:06

Another glorious story for this world champion. You know, in 1997, shortly after the handover, which was June the 30th over to July the 1st, the quintet joined the World Harmonica Festival in Trotsingen, Germany in 1997. We were commented that world champion was the very first Hong Kong world champion after the handover. Because we don't have too many world champions in the olden days. But the world champion of the quintet was the very first Hong Kong special administrative region world champion since the Hanover in July the 1st, 1997. A very glorious thing we always have in mind. Still having some sour feeling on my nose.

SPEAKER_04: 26:52

Great, yeah. So what's the population of Hong Kong?

SPEAKER_01: 26:55

Now it's 7 million and a little bit. Between 7.2 million to 7.5 million. So

SPEAKER_04: 26:59

you got a lot of attention in the press then. It was big news, was it, in Hong Kong when you won the competition?

SPEAKER_01: 27:08

Put it this way, in the year of 1997, we were not known that that was the very first world champion after the handover. I mean, we were not that socially connected by 1997. So it was only the news. Because, you know, we were also having our 10th anniversary concert. on 97th December. So we make up a proposal to the government telling them that, oh, we just won a champion in the World Harmonica Festival. Hey, listen, this is a champion in the World Harmonica Festival, not necessarily the same as a world champion in a harmonica festival. But the government make it as a world champion. I mean, we have no good reason to refuse. And then as long as they, ah, this is a world champion of Hong Kong, why don't we reject your application? And then we extend our invitation to you. So you will be paid artistry. Let us take care of all the propaganda, promotion, brand new, ticketing, whatsoever, news, media. And what an honor to be converted from the application into invitation.

SPEAKER_04: 28:14

Another great achievement you guys had is you played in a canto pop concert, which is in front of 20,000 people. Played saber dance there.

SPEAKER_01: 28:40

Since 2001, we started to be having collaboration with the professional orchestra, including but not limited to the Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra, the Hong Kong Chinese Orchestra, the Hong Kong Sinfonietta, and also two to three second-tier professional orchestras in Hong Kong, Western or Chinese. And then by 2011, a certain of our mutual friends, is quite a, you know, the famous Canton pop singers in Hong Kong, who is known to the region. And he is having a world singing tour every couple of years. His name is Hakan Lee. And then singing quite some Canton pop songs, not necessarily in the popular manner, but also in a very classical manner with Western orchestra accompanying. His manager approached us. And then saying, hey, we have a big brand new thing in the Hong Kong Coliseum, which is having a big capacity, like in the region of 20 audience seats in one go. And then this is a one week occasion. Are you happy to go along with us? We were a little bit puzzled. Then the manager kept on saying, oh, this is a 15 minutes, 20 minutes per night only, not the whole length. which is three hours per night. And then we were more than happy, and then we reconfirmed. And then only upon when we were staging on the Coliseum, we came to know that it is all full house in a row of six to seven nights. So 20,000 audience a day at night times seven, it is in the region of 150 to 160 audience in one go in a week in a row. And then the one extra thing that very few harmonic harmonica player we got the chance of this experience is that every player of us are having a earplug monitor and every one of us are giving a clip microphone on the chest and then the conductor shout out okay let's follow whatever rhythm and then let the volume be handled by the sound engineer at the top of the top of our auditorium so we took this with pleasure okay play the rhythm Okay, and then the second statement from the conductor is that whenever the drums comes up, don't look at me, listen to the drum because the drum will be dominating over whatever body motion of the two hands of the conductors. And then the other story is that The sound engineer only arrived three hours before live staging. We don't know what the volume is. And then within an hour, the sound engineer try with all of us five minutes for each song. So in 10 to 15 minutes, okay, this is done. Count on me. you have no worry, just play the rhythm. And then the Seven Knights was made up in such a manner. And then later on, CDs, Blu-ray, DVD, radio, are all publicly sold in the market.

SPEAKER_04: 31:39

Great to play to such a big audience. That must have been quite nerve-wracking. Yep. Another thing that you've done, which is very monumental, is that you played to a live global broadcast when the 2008 Beijing Olympics Olympic torch was passed through Hong Kong. So this is a song called Voices of the Mountains.

SPEAKER_01: 32:16

In early 2008, we were approached by the Hong Kong government for a certain staging commercially. We were scratching our heads, hey, what kind of story is it? And then later on, with certain, you know, clarification, the government said that, okay, the Olympic torch will be passing to Hong Kong, first time into a Chinese place, because at that time, Hong Kong is already part of China. So, Hong Kong, we are organizing the so-called torch passing closing ceremony, Olympic torch landing. We are lighting up, you know, certain pop song singers, you know, the Chinese orchestra, Western orchestra, I mean, a superb soloist, violin, or other, you know, instrumentalists. We want the quintet to play a live 60 seconds, no less than 58, no more than 62, just 60. The rest would be onto the editing team, to cut out whatever so as to suit the commercial time on TV broadcast live. So we locate our good friend composer, hey, the song of the mountain, we need 60 seconds, please help. And then the composer just make up within days that tune, and then we play live in front of the television shooter. We believe that, you know, that is part of the Beijing Olympics. You know, when talking about China, 100 millions is the starting point. So we humbly quoted, hey, we were playing to 100 million people. And then for certain other programs, if you talk about China, hundreds of millions are easily touched. Our 100 million is just the minimum. So that was the number story behind the 2008 Olympic torch, a Hong Kong ceremony with the King's Harmonic Quintet playing for that 60 seconds.

SPEAKER_04: 34:09

That must be one of the largest audiences a harmonica has ever been played to, Rocky.

SPEAKER_01: 34:13

I believe so, but that is not live. Live in one goal should be sometime in Taiwan 96. We were playing to 25,000 people in one goal in a stadium. I mean, the open air and cover with loads of microphone and then loudspeakers. 35 or 25, 35, I can't remember exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 34:34

So while we're on these sorts of numbers, let's pick up on the, so you've been involved in setting the Guinness World Record for the most harmonica players played at one point. So this was on November the 13th in 2000 You were involved in 6,131 people playing the harmonica together. So, yeah, tell us about that. That

SPEAKER_01: 34:53

is a very interesting story in 2009. Now, 2009, it just happened to be, I mean, of the same month as the Trotsingen Germany Philharmonic Festival. So we were having one of the largest, you know, delegation going from Hong Kong to Trotsingen, something like 90, if not 100. in the year of 2009. So we divided our effort. In Hong Kong, in order to jack up the November 13th evening event, quite some, you know, the liaison work has to be done in the four to six weeks before in Hong Kong. So the Hong Kong Harmonic Association, of which I was still a vice president in 2009, I became the president for 11 to 16. So we lined up people in Hong Kong via whatever kind of announcement. Hey, whoever wants to join, make an enrollment, and then we will take you in. So at the end of the day, we lined up with Horner, who was sent off. two to three representatives. They sponsor the four-hole harmonica, the bigger one, not the little lady one, to gift every of the participants one such harmonica, four holes. And then the distributor in Hong Kong also gave out a certificate to whoever participating. And then we work with the Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra in the racing course of Hong Kong, which is capable of hosting 30, if not 40,000 people I mean, uncover on the grassland in one go. So just like an hour before the play, I coached the, I think the people attending the coach was something like 8,000, if not 9,000. because of the registration they previously done. And then that was the number we have in mind. And then of course, you know, teaching them the tunes. It is like 32 bars of music repetitive. So the play is that the Hong Kong Philharmonic would continue playing along with us two minutes. and then they fade out, leaving only the harmonica people continuing playing the tunes for five minutes, and then the Hong Kong Philharmonic Orchestra joining again, playing the finale, you know, the verse. Why less than the 8,000? Because some of them were forgetting to bring their Hong Kong ID? or are not able to show their passport, and then their identity cannot be anchored. So with the certification coming from the Guinness Record, and also two notary public certifying the 6,181, so that becomes the Guinness Record all the way kept till now since 2009, a row of 13 years already.

SPEAKER_04: 37:42

I believe it was 31, Rocky, so just to check.

SPEAKER_01: 37:45

6131, you are correct. I mean, 6131, you are correct.

SPEAKER_04: 37:50

Right, so there were more than that. It was just they weren't all registered.

SPEAKER_01: 37:55

Yeah, registered to have taken a harmonica gift, to have taken the search, but their registration was, you know, I would say default because their identity was not complete.

SPEAKER_04: 38:06

Yeah, and this was in Hong Kong that this was...

SPEAKER_01: 38:08

Correct. And then the further last one was in Trotsingen, which is 2005, in the 2004 or 2003. So we broke the record by folds.

SPEAKER_04: 38:17

Yeah, and how did it sound when we had these thousands of harmonica splints again?

SPEAKER_01: 38:22

I would say very warm, because harmonica, when blowing long notes, by a lot of people playing together, unplugged the sound could be very warm and very harmonious

SPEAKER_04: 38:38

great that it sounded good and not bad

SPEAKER_01: 38:40

yeah

SPEAKER_04: 38:40

so that the fantastic achievement there so you've still got this world record that you're involved with

SPEAKER_01: 38:45

yeah and then we may be thinking of another even bigger record in the years to come let's see

SPEAKER_04: 38:51

Yeah, no, that'd be great. Yeah. So as well as playing in the groups and the harmonica, the King's Harmonica Quintet, you also play some solo harmonicas, as you mentioned. So got some clips of you playing with a harp, a real harp player.

SPEAKER_01: 39:04

That was a sort of a prelim trial with the harpist, with the renowned harpist, Dan Yu. She was renowned as a northeastern Chinese, been neutralized to Hong Kong for more than a decade, having educated in the States. I would say she may be having the highest number of students around the world, if you are talking about the hub. So she has 100 to almost 1,000 HUB students after teaching in Hong Kong for 12, 13 years. So the quintet was having an idea of inviting her for collaboration, but not having the confidence of whether compatible or not. So I took the courage of trying out. Would it be a good idea if we try out some simple pieces so that we know each other well? And then we came up with that collaboration in her student concert, which was held annually. So we played two simple tunes, Nightingale, and also the everlasting amazing grace.

SPEAKER_04: 40:20

So as well as this, you've also had a lot of involvement with the Hong Kong Harmonica Association, which is over there in Hong Kong, which is a group organising harmonica activities, etc. So you were the president of the association from 2011 to 2016. Now the director is still involved? Correct.

SPEAKER_01: 40:39

I mean, some three to five statements about the history of this organisation. It was established in 2002, January. Counting our fingers, it's 21 years. I mean, complete. The reason why we have to have this organisation is that all the way back to 2004, actually 2000, when the quintet was discontented with the way how a bad Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival could be. We take the courage of organizing to 2004, back in Hong Kong, four years after that discontent. And then we established the Hong Kong Harmonica Association. We lined up a lot of similar enthusiasts so that we have a big group of 50, if not 80, I mean, we all are willing to sacrifice our evening time, sleeping time, midnight time in order to go through all those emailing, communication arrangement, whatsoever, whatsoever, da, da, da. So there comes the Hong Kong harmonica up in the scene. for the past 20 years. The Asia Pacific Harmonica Festival, the fifth one, 2004 in Hong Kong, was said to be the role model of many of the harmonica festivals. So from then on, in the past 20 years, many of the festivals were copying that protocol, meaning Try your best to have government support. Try your best to have venue support, commercial support, and also outsourcing management, event management company. And then you involve more people with the standard venue rather than a simple, I mean, the community hall. Better to be concert hall, this kind of high ranking. So it was to raise the image of harmonica. So a little bit back to the normal business of this Hong Kong Harmonica Association. The three of the five of the quintet have been president for 20 years since 2002 until now. But we don't want the quintet to be overshadowing the Hong Kong Harmonica Association. So apart from the three, we are having much more non-quintet members than quintet members. Okay, what is this organization doing? Harmonica Festival, correct. But whenever we are having a harmonica festival, it is talking about a nine-month continuing effort. From the organizing the Delegation Enrollment Teaching music arrangement, more competition, and also taking the delegation to overseas, back Hong Kong, organizing the celebration concert, you know, dinner we kept, and then the evaluation. Every four years, well, every two years, Asia Pacific, almost every year sold. And on top of this, we also have community project where government give the money and then we give the effort in deepening the reach of harmonica music, making culture onto the community level. Say, teaching them casual playing, teaching them social playing like folk tunes, teaching them all this kind of simple playing so that within weeks, people can stand up onto a humble stage to play some tunes in front of friends. So that has been done in the past 15, 20 years under the umbrella of the Hong Kong Harmonica Association. And further to that, we also have international invitations like the World Expo in Shanghai, where we play seven different concerts with orchestra. And also certain other international non-harmonica related events, 15 if not 20, apart from the Harmonica Festival Arena. Fantastic.

SPEAKER_04: 44:19

And you've got an orchestra as well?

SPEAKER_01: 44:21

Correct.

SPEAKER_04: 44:40

Another role that you have is that you're an international endorser for Honour. What does that involve?

SPEAKER_01: 44:46

That was in 2010 when Honour officially started to send over representatives to Asia Pacific Harmonica festivals. Shortly after Honour acquired the Hub Online business. And that was nowadays when we see the eShop, which is the descendant of the Hub Online, where Horner acquired in 2009, 2008. And then in 2011, when the quintet was having a, when we were having an Eastern European concert tour in the station of Munich, and then certain of the Horner management came to our concert playing. And of course, you know, before that, they talked with us to see whether we, I mean, I myself and also my buddy, Johnny Kwan, bass player of the quintet, and also the current president of the Hong Kong Harmonic Association, he succeeded me. So Horner was sincere in a way that he asked whether we are pleased to join Horner with some different missions, like joining the team of the research and development on the product, joining the deepening of Horner in Asia, whenever talking about product penetration or music penetration or event sponsorship, et cetera, and also sending local Asian Here's

SPEAKER_04: 46:27

a quick word from the podcast sponsor, Blows Me Way Productions.

SPEAKER_00: 46:31

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SPEAKER_04: 46:48

Another thing that you have, you were a collector of harmonicas, yes? Yeah. Quite a significant collection of harmonicas. Yeah, so tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01: 46:57

For collectors, I mean the off-the-shelf models or unit models dedicated to me. I have something like 800 pieces, of which 500 to 600 are chromatics. And of the 500, a third are unit. People are not able to buy in the outside world. So as to say the branded ones are off-the-shelf, you name it, a brand, I have all the models chromatically. So onto those unique models that may be, you know, of different material. It may be like a stainless steel or titanium or gold-plated brass or silver-plated brass or alloy or, you know, acrylic or one of the latest model is quartz. You know quartz?

SPEAKER_04: 47:43

No.

SPEAKER_01: 47:44

It's the umbrella family of crystal.

SPEAKER_02: 47:47

The transparent one.

UNKNOWN: 47:49

And then certain of these are having a different mechanism or unit mechanism like totally no school. you can swap your cover within seconds with another harmonica, no screws. And even no screws for replay, you can change your replay within 10 seconds.

SPEAKER_01: 48:04

And then there are certain special air chamber or certain comb enlargement for volume building or certain being modular in structure and then you can make up your own harmonica just like a Lego. I mean, all these kind of funny things that I will be exhibiting in April 2023. when the Hong Kong Harmonica Association is launching the first international chromatic harmonica competition, which is delayed for a year. due to COVID in 2022. So many of my unique models will be exhibiting in the exhibition hall in April 2023. Yeah,

SPEAKER_04: 48:45

fantastic. And you mentioned there the competition. So yeah, there's a competition coming up this year. The launch

SPEAKER_01: 48:50

was all the way back to 2020. And then inviting a big group of fans globally. I mean, the jurisdiction coverage is more than 10, you know, participating with a video submission. We have a panel of super players of big names, musicians, conductors, not just necessarily, you know, harmonists. So they selected a total of 26 who will be fully course cover to Hong Kong with the government budget. They will play in Hong Kong for stage 2, 3, 4, live, not the video shooting. Stage 2 is unaccompanied and also piano accompaniment. 26 would be trimmed down to 8. And to the age will be playing with a string quartet to demonstrate the ability of collaboration with true musicians. From age, they will be chosen four to enter into the final, which is supposed to be a true concert arena. They will be playing with the standard orchestra, a test piece together with a chosen piece. And then in order to make the competition even more challenging, they are given four choices. but they can only choose when being sorted out, shortlisted after the 8th, meaning in the evening of April the 7th, they know whether they are entering into the final four, and then they start to pick up the choice. If you are the lowest mark in the string quartet, you will be choosing only the latest, then you will be left with the most difficult piece after the three choosing. So this is the competition, and it is open news that the cash prize for the final four is very attractive. In terms of HKD, it would be HK$100,000, HK$70,000, HK$50,000 and HK$30,000 per each of them. HK$100,000 is the equivalent of HK$12,500 for the soloist as the first prize.

SPEAKER_04: 50:45

Fantastic. Yeah. And you've already got your finalists for this. So people can't enter now. I can't

SPEAKER_01: 50:51

enter now because the 26th had gone through the video submission in 2021 and then shortlisted in 2021-4. Because of COVID, the 2022 section has to be delayed for a year. And that's why we are picking up by quarter for 2022. And then we needed the engine. So it will be launching in no more than two months time.

SPEAKER_04: 51:13

Great. And there's also a composition competition. That

SPEAKER_01: 51:16

composition is another project funded by another Hong Kong government agency called the Art Development Council. And then they have a mission to fulfill that they can give money for sustaining or regrowing of certain art forms. So again, in 2020, we made the application by pooling a sitting fund of HK$300,000 and then the government matched So we got a whole bunch of money. And then we invited a global submission. And then altogether, we have 25 jurisdictions from even small countries that we may not have encountered, like Iran. And then from the 25 jurisdictions, we have altogether 58 valid submissions, 25 of such. piano accompaniment, another 30-odd orchestra accompaniment. So after the selection, after the debate of the panel team, the prizes are given. You can browse into the website to see who are the winners.

SPEAKER_04: 52:19

Yeah, I'll put the link on for

SPEAKER_01: 52:20

that. Eight of the 60 were selected to compile the audio CD album, freely distributed. We are in the course of organizing the next performance staging for the rest of the composition. Because composition, once submitted, being good, is making no sense by keeping in a library or keeping in a computer folder. You know, publishing them, playing them, sharing them is the indispensable principle in order to make the promotion for this instrument to be a great one.

SPEAKER_04: 52:52

So the question I ask each time, Rocky, is if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing? Before

SPEAKER_01: 52:59

the practice, of course, you know, you spend some minutes in warming up your chromatics, particularly the wind savers, allowing them to gain your body temperature closer rather than just in the room temperature. That is the pre-10 minutes. And then the first 2-3 minutes must be scales. Chromatic or diatonic scale, starting from whatever would be F sharp or A flat, starting with whatever scale, going up two octaves, coming down two octaves. So that is the unavoidable part of your practice. And then the remaining, you know, eight minutes could be four minutes for the fast passages, four minutes for those, you know, long notes and, you know, the nice piece that you love both. And of course, you know, the five pieces would be your most favorite of three. The soft pieces would be another three of your most favorite. So it is two, three, three, three, three.

SPEAKER_04: 53:52

And what about the chromatic harmonica that you play? I see there's a link where you talk about some of your sort of five favorite chromatics. I'll put a link onto that. And you've got one of the polyharmonicas made in Norway and a silver concerto. So what's your favorite chromatic to play? This is one question

SPEAKER_01: 54:10

that would never having an answer. You know, the reason is that, I mean, if you ask me, What is my favorite? And then you ask another who is a teen or a lady. Having the same 600 collection, the three answers will be different. Why? Because different piece would call for different, you know, the better configuration of the harmonica in order to express well. Wood and metal are definitely two dimensions. And then the in thing, they're having less, I mean, having a stronger bow and draw than a mature person. So back to my collection. I mean, I won't quote all of them, but, you know, what I quoted in the website of Yvonne Prine. You know Yvonne Prine, the Frenchman who lives in New York? And then in the email dialogue with him, he was trying to convince me to nail down to three. I said, never. It is not a good direction for people to learn. So the answer to that one is that there is no best harmonica in the world. there could be a most suitable harmonica for your most favourite piece.

SPEAKER_04: 55:19

Sure, yeah. So yeah, you use the right one for the right situation.

SPEAKER_01: 55:22

Yep. But of course, it makes no sense for you to talk about 20 or 30 harmonicas in a go. Some three to five, you know, are the best. So if you really want me to quote one, I would say something being a mix of wood and metal.

SPEAKER_04: 55:38

And what number should you use playing the chromatic?

SPEAKER_01: 55:41

I am more onto the plucker. Tongue blocking is in those, you know, really legato demanding and also fast moving that I cannot handle with a plucker. I'm at 80% or even 90% plucker versus 10% to 20% tongue blocking.

SPEAKER_04: 56:00

Are all your chromatics in the key of C?

SPEAKER_01: 56:03

No, 70% of mine are C, many in A, quite some in G. and then a fill in B-flat or even E or even D, even the tenor tune.

SPEAKER_04: 56:15

You're reading music, at least initially, to learn songs, and so you choose the key that is appropriate to the piece, do you?

SPEAKER_01: 56:22

Yes or no, depending on your orientation. I used to be a bass player, so I read the bass clef to start with my music reading when talking about notes and stuff. So bass clef to me is easy. And then soon, later on, I revert back to my treble clef for reading. So reading treble clef is also one of my abilities. But the composer made me a joke that they wrote me tenor clef, the C clef, for quintet playing. And then certain composers are written in alternative ways, say, written in the treble clef, but with an 8 underneath, meaning playing an octave lower. And occasionally, I bought my... wrong key harmonica so I have to play right away with practices I developed the ability of reading into whatever clef written you know the music and then trying two three minutes on my different scale with the different starting getting familiar and then I read music for two three minutes having that in mind and then I play right away even if I don't bring the correct keyed chromatic and the written music is not in the clef that I wish it to be

SPEAKER_04: 57:30

final question then Rocky and just about what coming up you've got a show with the King's Harmonica Quintet on February the 17th so just a few days after this podcast episode coming out so what else have you got coming up this year

SPEAKER_01: 57:43

back to this you know Hong Kong Art Festival but affected by COVID that is delayed to this so this is our third time staging in the Hong Kong Art Festival which is one of the most prestigious occasion in Asia so we are honored to be invited again for the first time and then of course you know the We are playing a full-length concert with the quintet formation. Further after this would be, as I said, the April occasion where we have a master concert after this, you know, the International Chromatic Harmonica Competition week. So there would be a collaboration with Sigmund Gruven.

SPEAKER_04: 58:21

So... That's fantastic. Great to speak to you today, Rocky, and tell us all about the wonderful harmonica scene in Hong Kong and Asia and beyond. So thanks very much for joining today, Rocky Locke. My pleasure indeed. Thank

SPEAKER_01: 58:32

you very much, Neil,

SPEAKER_04: 58:32

for the

SPEAKER_01: 58:33

invitation.

SPEAKER_04: 58:35

Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out the great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Many thanks to Rocky for joining me today. What a harmonica scene there is in Hong Kong, helped by excellent support from the government, and it would be great to see some more harmonica groups performing around the world. Remember to check out the podcast website at harmonicahappyhour.com, where there is the option to make a donation to help with the running costs of the podcast. I'll leave you now with Rocky playing us out with the King's Harmonica Quintet, joined by another player to make up a sextet group.

UNKNOWN: 59:23

Thank you.