Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Hendrik Meurkens interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 84

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Hendrik Meurkens joins me on episode 84.
Hendrik is a German chromatic player who has been living in New York since the early 1990s.
Toots Thielemans was Hendrik’s inspiration to take up the chromatic and he performed a live radio show in Germany with Toots.
Hendrik is also a vibraphone player, which he studied at the Berklee College of Music. Shortly after this he spent a year in Brazil to immerse himself in the music there. This helped him form his brand of Brazilian music, Samba Jazz.
Hendrik has a large album catalogue, including six albums with the prestigious jazz label Concord, and has performed and recorded with some of the biggest names in Brazilian and jazz music.

Links:

Hendrik's website:
https://hendrikmeurkens.com/

Bandcamp site:
https://hendrikmeurkens.bandcamp.com/

Hendrik’s album catalogue:
https://hendrikmeurkens.com/portfolio/

Tutorial site:
https://www.mymusicmasterclass.com/artist/artists/hendrik-meurkens/


Videos:

Hendrick playing vibes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbIMf3iMNkQ

Tribute To Toots concert in Uruguay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jcUG7RTNWQ

Playing with WDR Big Band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzyE4Yv2xlo

Playing at the Blue Note in New York:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuIAVFDAmqA

Sambatropolis with WDR Big Band:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_G2RuvtyMI

Dolores Claiborne movie clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSMimK5uUik



Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS

Support the show

SPEAKER_01:

Hendrik Merkens joins me on episode 84. Hendrik is a German chromatic player who has been living in New York since the early 1990s. Toots Thielmans was Hendrik's inspiration to take up the chromatic and he performed a live radio show in Germany with Toots. Hendrik is also a vibraphone player which he studied at the Berklee College of Music. Shortly after this he spent a year in Brazil to immerse himself in the music there. This helped him form his brand of Brazilian music, Samba Jazz. Hendrik has a large album catalogue including six albums with the prestigious jazz label Concord and has performed and recorded with some of the biggest names in Brazilian and jazz music. Please excuse the background noise behind Hendrik in the first nine minutes of the episode. The noise does abate after that point. This podcast is sponsored by Zydal Harmonicas. visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas. Hello Hendrik Merkens and welcome to the podcast. Hello, nice to be here. Thanks so much for joining and great to have you on. I think it's fair to say that you're a serious jazzer.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, I guess I am a jazz musician first and a harmonica player second. At least that's how it started chronologically. I played vibraphone first, so I'm really a jazz musician who then picked up the harmonica.

SPEAKER_01:

So just starting out a little bit about your early life. So you were born in Germany and now you're living in New York, yeah?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I was born in Hamburg, Germany, and Dutch father, German mother. But I traveled a lot. After high school, I actually went to America for the first time. I studied at the Berklee College in Boston for three years. Then I went back to Germany for a minute. Then I went to Brazil for a year because I liked Brazilian music and I wanted to get to the source. And then I came back to Germany for a little bit. And then in 90 My wife and I, we finally immigrated to the States. So I've been here 31 years now.

SPEAKER_01:

Great, yeah, so we'll get into your travels around, as you've just mentioned there, to Brazil and then back to the US, and we'll cover all that. But before we do that, let's start about your music career. I think you started off initially when you were younger playing some piano. Was that your first instrument?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, as a kid, I had piano lessons, you know, the usual parent-forced piano lesson. I wasn't really into it, but I also didn't hate it, but it didn't last very long. I had that for a minute, but I never followed up on it. That means that we had a piano in our house. So when I finally got interested into music as an early teenager, there was at least a piano for me to fumble around on. But the first instrument that I actually was serious about was the vibraphone. Actually, before that, I played drums a little bit in the school band, just a little bit. But the first instrument that actually meant something to me was the vibraphone. Also because it is kind of right between the piano and the drums. It's a percussion instrument. You have sticks or mallets. But it's a keyboard. So that was the first instrument that I seriously practiced. And that came before the vibraphone. I started before the harmonica. I started on vice when I was 16.

SPEAKER_01:

Great. And so this is Milt Jackson is the vibraphone player that I know.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, actually, before Milt Jackson, there was Lionel Hampton, the swing vibraphone player that was actually a superstar in the 40s and 50s. Benny Goodman, Carnegie Hall, the whole connection, that was the first guy that I, that was actually a guy who triggered my interest in the vibraphone, Lionel Hampton. Later on, when I got more into, deeper into jazz, then Bill Jackson took over, but it started with Lionel Hampton.

SPEAKER_01:

You then picked up the harmonica after that, as you say, so what got you into the harmonica? I think you heard Toots, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. That's the one and only reason. I was never really into the harmonica before that. I was really a jazz fan, you know, sack saxophone, trumpet, you know, the classic jazz instrument. Then, I don't know how that happened, I heard toots and I said, wow, that's great. That was the reason. I went to the music store, I got a harmonica and I self-taught myself how to play the instrument. But the reason is I heard toots.

SPEAKER_01:

So what about any similarities between the vibraphone and the chromatic harmonica?

SPEAKER_00:

Zero. It's a question that I get all the time and the answer is I have no idea why it's the two instruments. There is no overlap in any kind. I just like both of them at different times and they stayed. I also like other instruments that i tried for a minute but they didn't survive but the vibes and harmonica they stayed and i you know i i went the path of investigating but harmonica still to this day is connected to tooths the he is the guy that i do like on harmonica he is his the language that he created the sound the sensitivity the whole thing that is what i like about the harmonica

SPEAKER_01:

and so you mentioned there that you you moved to the us i think in 1977 to study at the uh the Berklee School of Music there, yeah. So did you do that on the vibes initially?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Actually, one of the reasons I went there was back in the day, in the 70s, vibraphone is a percussion instrument. So you had to be a percussion major or a drums major, but you couldn't really be a vibraphone major anywhere in those days because, you know, either you were a classical percussionist or you were a jazz drummer. That kind of was the picture. But Berklee let me be a vibes major. So that was one of the reasons I started there. The harmonic I already played a little bit privately, but on harmonica, I'm completely self-taught. I never had a lesson or anything like that. It's all self-taught. My jazz education comes through the vibraphone.

SPEAKER_01:

So, Greg, you're there at Berklee there, and you played some chromatic while you were there, so you never got it out in the college or anything like that.

SPEAKER_00:

I played it at sessions. I tried it out, but of course it wasn't part of my education. It was my private hobby, so to speak, but I practiced it. Actually, I practiced Yeah, and...

SPEAKER_01:

Around this time, did you see Toots performing in, well, either in Europe or the US?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I went to New York and I saw him. I went to his gigs. Not too many because it was still, I was in Boston and the gigs were usually in New York. I saw him maybe a couple of times. I went up to him, said hi, maybe. I was very, almost afraid of the guy because he was such a legend.

SPEAKER_01:

You did do a Toots tribute concert in 2017 in Uruguay. I've got a...

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, Toots had just died that summer. I think he died somewhere in the summer of 2016, and they asked me for Uruguay to do a tribute to him, which I did. They got Brazilian musicians, which is very good for me because Brazilian jazz is a big part of what I do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, of course, Toots did the Brazil album, didn't he?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, Toots did two albums, actually, the Brazil project, two editions of that. But the real news here is, or the real important fact, is that harmonica works really well in Brazilian music. It has its problems in jazz. It's not really a jazz instrument. You can make it happen like Toots if you modify the music to the needs of the harmonica, but it's not really a classic jazz instrument. That problem does not exist in Brazilian music. It's perfect for Brazilian music. It's melancholy, it's beautiful, it's romantic. Toots, of course, did those two albums, but he also participated before that in lots of other projects where he played, you know, in the background or played a little solo here and there connected to Brazilian music. So, That's another discovery that Toots made. He found that. He found everything that has to do with jazz and the harmonica. There were other guys, but he was the one who discovered what sounds good and what doesn't.

SPEAKER_01:

So was it... hearing Toots play Brazilian music that turned you on to that on the chromatic, or did you already like the Brazilian music before then?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, Brazilian music started for me kind of the same time that jazz has started. I was living in Hamburg with my parents, a teenager, and they had maybe two jazz albums in their record collection. One was Penny Goodman at Carnegie Hall, and the other one was Astro Gilberto singing Bossa Nova. And I heard those two, and my interest was starting in both of these fields at the same time, kind a parallel. Toots came later. The Toots connection and the harmonica connection with Brazilian music came later. I actually didn't hear much harmonica in Brazilian music until later. So this is independent.

SPEAKER_01:

You actually, I believe, recorded a live radio show and broadcast in Germany with Toots.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, that was even before I moved to the States. That must have been 92 or something. In Germany, back in the day, they still have some, but back in the day, they had all these great radio big bands. Every major city had a radio big band. big band funded by the government and they needed projects so Toots was a frequent guest and on one of these shows in Berlin Toots was the guest and I was the guest so we played together and I got to meet him again so that was great that was before I even came to America actually I would love to hear that recording I have no idea where that is that must be in some file somewhere but that would be definitely something interesting to hear

SPEAKER_01:

great and then finally on Toots you also appeared at the Toots 100 birthday celebrations in Brussels in 2022 yes Toots

SPEAKER_00:

is is a hero in Belgium. He is actually, I think they knighted him. He's a baron and he's a national hero. You know, he's the pride of Belgium. And last year they had a whole bunch of events for his centennial and lots of stuff that I had nothing to do with, but I was part in one of them, which is that the WDR big band from Cologne, one of those great radio big bands, they did a show there with me on Ringtooth. Yeah, that was in July last year.

SPEAKER_01:

So you mentioned obviously there that you went to the US in 77. Are you there for three years. Did you then go back to Germany to live for a while?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I went back to Germany for two years. Then I went to Brazil for a year. Then I went back to Germany for maybe eight years, something like that. And then I finally came to America for good.

SPEAKER_01:

And then during this time in Germany, you were, you know, you were, you know, you were working, you know, sessions and you was playing, you know, the jazz scene in there in Europe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I was a musician back in those days, living, playing, living the dream, playing jazz in Europe. I was part of a swing band that played lots of gigs and I did all the freelance stuff. Back in those days, there was also still a lot of studio recordings. That changed after the synthesizers took over, but early on there, there was lots to do on the harmonica. They still needed a harmonica in commercials and film music and all that until the synthesizers took part of that away, but Yes, I was a musician doing touring and concerts and radio shows, recordings, all the good stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

And did you play some big band stuff there as well during that time?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I played with several of these great European big bands. Danish big band, then they have two in Berlin, Hamburg. These big bands back in the day, they always needed projects. You know, they invite a singer or they invite a saxophone player or somebody and they do a show and a radio thing. They had the budget, government funded. So I was a frequent guest, not frequent, but I was a guest once in a while in these great projects. That was a good thing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it must be great. What's it like playing the small, humble harmonica in a big band?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, if you play harmonica in a big band, you play it not in a big band, you play it in front of a big band. You are not really part of the orchestra. You are the solos. It's like a singer. You are the featured soloist that plays a solo and the melody, and then the big band is roaring behind you. It's not really that there's something written for the big band with you included. I mean, that's possible, but usually you are the solos. But it is a great thing. It's very inspiring, obviously. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

it must be great on that wall of sound behind you. Are you generally just playing kind of solos and improvising in that setting then?

SPEAKER_00:

I would say so. Melodies and solos. Look at it as if I were a singer. You know, you are the featured melody guy. You take your solo. That is kind of what it is. And that's great because that's what the harmonica does best.

SPEAKER_01:

So now you're still, when you're recording, you're still, you're playing the vibes and the chromatic often on your recordings, yeah, probably more chromatic, but definitely the vibes is still on there, yeah?

SPEAKER_00:

I play the vibes, it depends on the project. Actually, next week there's a project, there's a gentleman coming from Hong Kong who's recording a project and he wants both, so I will play both. It just seems to... happened that I get more calls for harmonica because I think I'm more known for that, which is, I don't know why. I mean, it might also be a consequence of me not having a car in New York City, so I don't really bring the vibes to all of my gigs. It's hard. So you play more harmonica, and that means I'm more confident about harmonica, and that means I play and record more harmonica, and that means people call me for more harmonica, but I do play vibes. But it seems like the harmonica kind of is what people know me for.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so let's get on then into your, you know, your Brazil connections, as you've mentioned already. So you play a lot of samba and bossa nova, you know, so you got into that, you moved to Brazil in 1982 and you still, you know, so you could immerse yourself in the music, yeah?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, exactly. Well, I play what is known as samba jazz. I don't really play the original, authentic Brazilian music. I take the music and I make my own something out of it. It's what people call samba jazz. It's the instrumental version. It's a style, actually. I wouldn't say that I just play bossa nova. If you think about bossa nova, you probably need a singer. You know, the classic Brazilian music always evolves around singers because the songs are written for them. But that's not what I do. I do the instrumental version. So that is what we call Samba Jazz. But that's what I do. That's one of my projects. Not the only one, but a strong thing of what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and like you say, the harmonica works so well in that setting. Well, certainly in Brazil, do you usually have people dancing while you're playing? Is that a feature?

SPEAKER_00:

No, not really. I mean, it might happen for once in a while, but it's really, if you do samba jazz, you know, the minute there's the word jazz in it, you get a different kind of audience, you know, you get people that listen.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So I've touched a little bit on previous episodes about Brazilian harmonica players. So, but there's definitely a tradition, isn't there, of Brazilian harmonica players?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, that is actually quite surprising for me. Brazil has a very strong tradition of harmonica players. There are young guys now, but before that, there was the great, and there still is, the great Mauricio Einhorn. And Ido da Gaita and Ido Horta, they are classic Brazilian harmonica players, some of them more jazz, some of them more Brazilian. And then now there's a new generation of great players. I don't know why that is, but Brazil always had a lot of harmonica in its culture. I don't really know why it could be the German immigrants in the south. I don't really know how that happened.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and they've got their own, you know, they're playing Brazilian music, they're not playing blues, for example, which is obviously what the harmonica's taken to in many other countries by blues, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's true. The harmonica, the chromatic especially... especially the chromatic, seems to go well with certain Brazilian styles. And, I mean, there's always the explanation of money, you know. If you want to get a vibraphone, you've got to put a few thousand dollars on the table. And if they even have a vibraphone in the country we live in. But a harmonica is cheap, you know, compared to other instruments. So there's that thing too. It might be something that was easy to get so people had a better chance to get it. I don't know. I never asked or found not why brazil has so many harmonica players but it definitely does

SPEAKER_01:

so what happened in your decision to go to brazil you know very envious of this end you just think right i'm just going to go and move to brazil and play harmonica over there you know how did that go

SPEAKER_00:

exactly like that i always believe that if you want to learn a music style you got to go to the culture that produced it i think if somebody wants to play classical music they should spend years in germany that doesn't matter if it's 200 years after the event it's about the culture the food the language the way people talk to each other the weather especially the language because the language kind of makes for the rhythm of the music so i could learn brazilian music at home but i thought it was much better to go to live there and also you have to remember this was all pre-computer pre-internet pre-youtube pre-anything the best you could hope for was getting a record You know, these days you can stay at home and go on YouTube and learn about anything at home without ever leaving your apartment. You know, there are sources. That wasn't the case back then. So going to Brazil was, I mean, it was kind of a clear path that I had to do.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And so I believe you went to a sort of a regular Monday night gig you had there in a club in Rio. And that's what got you into the scene, is it? And you were well accepted, were you, by the Brazilian musicians?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I had a Monday night gig with some of the great samba jazz musicians there and they liked it and that was that. Back in those days, I didn't speak much or maybe even any Portuguese, which was not great because back in those days, a lot of Brazilian musicians didn't even speak English. You know, that changed. The world was becoming closer and back in those days, not a lot of people spoke English. So I was, yeah, it was interesting. You know, a gringo in Brazil playing their music but not being able to communicate gave much.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, really tough, yeah. Great. And then, yeah, so as you said, then you went back to Germany and got here that you won in 1983 when you went back to Germany. You won the first prize of the German Phono Academy for Jazz.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that was a competition. It's so long ago I don't even remember much what the details were, but they had an annual jazz competition and that particular year I actually did win, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

All this stuff helps you, gets your name on the map and, you know, help your career. Of course, yes. Yeah, great. And that was on Harmonica, wasn't it? was it?

SPEAKER_00:

That was only harmonica, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So let's now get into your extensive recording catalogue. So I believe you've got 26 albums in your own name, so a great body of work you've done there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I did, and I still do. It's just something that I'm comfortable doing. I really like to record albums, you know, think about the material, make sure it sounds good, do the recording, mix it and all that.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_00:

We are in a little bit in a problematic situation with the event of streaming. Back in the day, an album was like the normal way you would get your music out. You know, either an LP or in my days, I started in the age of the CD. So you would do a CD and people would buy it or not, and it would be played on the radio. And that was it. These days, you can do other things. You can record a song and record that one song and release it as a song. That wasn't possible decades ago. So for me, doing an album was always the standard way of producing something. I just like to do it. Also, another thing is that the harmonica in the studio, you can get much better results than live. Live, you depend on the sound system, on the grace of the sound engineer, if he understands what you want or not, and then if your rhythm section is very loud or not. Harmonica can sound pretty bad live. You can never destroy a vibraphone or saxophone. They always sound good because they have a sound, a strong sound on its own. But harmonica needs help. Harmonica needs a good microphone, a good sound system, some reverb. Other than that, it sounds just like a squeak box. In the studio, I have control over that. So in the studio, I can make the thing sound really nice. That's another reason why I always like to record.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'll just pick out some of the albums that I've been going through. I probably can't get through all 26, but the first album you had out, I believe, was in 1989, was Samba... importado

SPEAKER_00:

yeah that one i actually recorded in brazil i went to brazil to record it there yes

SPEAKER_01:

obviously you'd been there previously what some some seven years before is that the first time you went back specifically to record this album

SPEAKER_00:

yes i think so

SPEAKER_01:

i mean already on this first one you've got songs that you composed yourself yeah so it's something that you've always done you compose your own songs

SPEAKER_00:

i sometimes think i consider myself more a composer than a player that seems surprising for a Everything I do, there are my own songs on it, not exclusively, but they're always there. It's just something that I do naturally. And yes, and of course, the first Brazilian album was to finally get my Brazilian songs recorded.

SPEAKER_01:

And another song off this first album, which is an interesting title, is Space Burger.

UNKNOWN:

Space Burger

SPEAKER_00:

That's one of my tunes. I don't even know why I came up with this name. That must be my German humor. But that is, yeah, that's one of my tunes. I re-recorded that later here in New York again. Don't even know why that name, but yep, that's the name.

SPEAKER_01:

Good name. Well, it certainly stood out to me. So it had the right effect. So and then in 1991, I believe, you signed with Concord Records during a trip to California. So this was pretty early in your recording sort of career. I think you'd only had the one album before then, had you? So how did this come about?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, my wife, my Brazilian wife, we were living in Berlin at the time. My Brazilian wife went to San Francisco to do a language course because she needed to learn English. So she lived for three years in San Francisco in the summer doing that course there. And I visited her and while she was in the school in the daytime, I was just looking at stuff. And then I saw the subway map and then I saw, oh, there's a stop called Concord. That's interesting because there's also a label called Concord, a jazz label. And then I found out that actually Concord Records is in Concord, California named after the town. So I called up the record label and said, I came especially from Germany to meet you guys because I want to present you a project. So there we go. That was my early toughness as an ambitious guy. So I got a meeting with the record company and I played that first album that I read for them. And they liked and said, well, if I have something else, can I present it to you? I said, of course. And then a year later or at some point later, shortly after that, I did have another production that I produced myself. I sent it to them and they took it on. And that's how that happened.

SPEAKER_01:

Great. And this album was the Samba Here.

SPEAKER_00:

That was Samba Hier with Paquito de Avea and Claudio Dittia. That was recorded in Europe during a tour. They were in Europe with the Dizzy Gillespie United Nations Orchestra. I was in Europe with my Brazilian rhythm section that I had there. And then we met and recorded the album. I sent it to them. And then I remember that very well. Those were the days of the fax machine. One day I go to my bedroom and there was the fax hanging out of the machine offering me a record deal and there was that.

SPEAKER_01:

And Paquito de Rivera there, as you mentioned, he's a saxophone player, yeah?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, he's a superstar, plays alto saxophone and clarinet and Claudio Ditti, he passed away already, he was a trumpet player and he was kind of the father of samba jazz, the most respected practitioner of samba jazz here in New York, Brazilian guy.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, fantastic. Yeah. So Concord were a pretty prestigious jazz label, yeah?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. Back in the day, I mean, they still are. But back in the day, they were definitely one of the major, major, non-major labels. The way the records industry was set up is there were a handful of major labels. I don't know, Warner Brothers, Sony, whatever, one of these. And they, of course, had a whole budget and they had hundreds of people working for them. So that was that. But except for those handful of major labels, there were a lot of smaller independent labels and a lot of jazz labels were smaller independent labels and Concord was like the top of the line from those so getting signed with Concord was a major deal it really put me on the map and also got me into the country Because I told them, well, now we have a recording contract. If we want to promote our albums, you should let me come to America. So you got to get me a visa. So they arranged for an artist visa for Concord Records. That's how I moved to America. And then the visa became a green card and the green card became the citizenship.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, fantastic. And then, so yeah, so then you moved to New York in 1992 on the back of this. So New York is a jazz heaven. Yeah. So that's why you went there. So, you know, what was it like being, breaking onto the New York jazz scene?

SPEAKER_00:

New York is New York. If you're interested in jazz or if jazz means something to you, there's nothing like it. Even these days, 2023, after the pandemic, when the whole world is complaining about how everything is different, New York is just bubbling with jazz clubs. I don't know how many we have, 30, 40. I don't know. I have no idea. Yes, jazz and New York, they are connected. And one of the reasons is, I mean, first of all, it's a lot of stuff created here and it is one of the homes of jazz, but it's also something that tourists do. You know, if tourists come here, they go to see the Empire State Building and they go see a Broadway show and a few museums and the Statue of Liberty and they go to a jazz club. And that means the tickets are being sold. So these jazz clubs are all in good shape because there is actually an audience. You know, it's not like a year of government subsidized. They don't need that.

SPEAKER_01:

So you have played at the Blue Note Club, the famous jazz club in New York?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I have.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_01:

you know what's it like when you first went i mean is it you know here it's very competitive and you know was it was it tough trying to break onto the scene there or well

SPEAKER_00:

it's still tough i mean it never ends You have to fit in, you have to speak the New York language, you know, how people interact and how they react to your personality and this and this. It's a very tough city in a good way. Everything here is built on respect and on results. You know, you have to be good or great in what you do and you have to also be sociable and professional in what you do. You cannot have an attitude or be a prima donna or be difficult because then they just call somebody else. Because on each instrument and For each profession, people have choices here. That makes it tough. You want to be great and you want to be the one that they think about. So you also have to be out there a lot and have to be part of the scene so that people don't forget you. It's tough, but it's great.

SPEAKER_01:

Good timing. We can hear that New York siren going off in the background. That's very atmospheric. So then your next album in 92, I think when you were in New York at this point, it was Clear of Clouds.

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Actually, Clear of Clouds, I was still living in Germany when I recorded it. That was partly recorded in Rio and partly recorded in Berlin. That was still an album recorded in Berlin. The first New York album is, I think, A View from Manhattan.

UNKNOWN:

A View from Manhattan

SPEAKER_01:

So, a view from Manhattan then. Was this then your first sort of non-Brazilian album?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that was half-half. Half-Australia had jazz, the other half-Brazilian. By that time, I had lived in New York, I had met people. I had been part of the samba jazz scene in New York, and I had been part of the jazz scene in New York. That album is a combination of both styles, definitely.

SPEAKER_01:

Great. And so the next album I've got you down in 1994 is October Colors, which I've read described as your desert island disc.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. i mean after that there were other ones that became more important but that was one of my favorites for a while that one was recorded on the road in europe i had a brazilian band in new york and we went on the road in europe that was all pre-9 11 there were lots of jazz clubs so we had like a three week tour i guess gigs every night in different city and towards the end of the We went into a studio in Holland and recorded that album. I like to do that a lot back in the day because when you're on the road with your band and you play every night for a couple of weeks, the music gets really tight. So this album was like that. That's both harmonica and vibes because on the tour I was playing both harmonica and vibes.

SPEAKER_01:

And then in 97, you did an album with the New York Samba Jazz All Stars. Was this a band that you formed? And, you know, is this a first album with them?

SPEAKER_00:

Kind of. The rhythm section is basically my quartet that went on the road with me a lot back in those days to Europe. And then I added guitar, Romero Bambu and a percussion player, Ciro Batista. And then we called that the Samba Jazz All Stars. But it was basically my quartet augmented by a couple of players, but all Brazilian musicians living in New York.

SPEAKER_01:

A song I picked off there was Luisa.

SPEAKER_00:

That is one of my hits in live performances. This is a Jobim ballad and I play that in a duo. With my piano player in live concert, it's one of the things that goes over really well. You know, this is a very romantic tune and here we go again. Those kind of things work great on the harmonica.

SPEAKER_01:

One thing I really noticed about that, he's played some high notes and it sounds really beautiful. And I think that's what drew you to the harmonica, right? The chromatic, you can see that real beautiful tone you can get out of it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, but you're interesting that you speak about the high notes. I'm actually not a fan of the upper register of the harmonica. It's okay, but I think you have to use it really carefully at the right moment because it can get very squeaky and very intense. The lower two octaves, especially the lower octave and a half on a three- of harmonica are full and fat and beautiful. That's where I try to stay most of the time because that's where I get the fat sound. If there are high notes, then they have to have a reason to show up because they are intense.

SPEAKER_01:

And then in 99, you did an album with Mundell Lowe, who's a sort of guitar legend as well. So how did this come about?

SPEAKER_00:

Same thing. There was a tour in Europe back in those days. I went to Europe many times a year, three, four times a year, always for a few weeks with American artists or Brazilian artists. And we played concerts all the time. And when you have a tour, you know that you will sell CDs because in those days, people did buy CDs. They go to a jazz concert, they like the band, and then they take a CD home. So if you know that you have a three-week tour, you could risk to produce a CD because you know that you're going to sell all of them. So that's another reason that we did a CD, knowing that that there would be a tour. Actually, I did two CDs with Mandelo. One I did before the tour to sell on the tour, and one I did during the tour, which was picked up by a record label later on.

SPEAKER_01:

So does this, you know, you mentioned streaming earlier on, we talked about this on the podcast before, but is this putting you off making new albums, or you still feel it's really important to get them out, even though you're probably not going to get your money back?

SPEAKER_00:

No, the money is, those days are over. If you do an album now, it's to document your music, you take the loss, and they are not dead yet. For instance, if you send it to radio stations, they still want a CD. If you send it to magazines for review... they still want a CD. That can also die at one point and they accept downloads, but not yet. So the actual CD is still there and it is the format I know. It's the format that I'm comfortable with. I will, until something drastic happens, I will continue producing CDs. I will try to not spend too much money on it and make it, you know, stay within a low budget to not get hurt too much. But if you don't have a CD out, you are not really alive, especially in the jazz world. Jazz world is still traditional. People still read Downbeat magazine and they still have CDs. Other styles already are in another century. The jazz fans, most of them are older and they are still comfortable with the old medium.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then a really important album that you released. Would it be a concept album? Is your Amazon River?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, well, here we go again. I had a tour in Europe with those gentlemen on the tour and Oscar Castroneves was the special guest, the Brazilian star. And we started talking and we recorded an album. So having Oscar Castroneves on board, brought a different perspective because he is a brazilian he is from that era he knows people and he produced it and arranged it so it is my album and my harmonica but a lot of a lot of his is oscar castaneda's work as an arranger

SPEAKER_01:

yeah and so i read i think you called it your ultimate statement about me and my music you still feel that about this album

SPEAKER_00:

it is a special album i mean there's other things have happened after that it's it's already 20 years old but also other things important things have happened but that album is still special in certain ways. It's not really much of a jazz album. It's a Brazilian album. It's not about playing and about solos. It's about Brazilian music and Brazilian songs. So for my Brazilian side, I would say that might be a special album.

SPEAKER_01:

I really enjoyed listening to it. It's very atmospheric, isn't it? The sort of noises, I guess the river and the sort of...

SPEAKER_00:

Well, that's Brazilian stuff. They do these things, you know. Strings sound great in Brazilian music. All these percussion effects and those jungle effects, it sounds great. It's perfect for that music.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's great. And you've got some vocals on there as well, singing in Portuguese, I guess, Brazilian music.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, Portuguese. We've got Dodi Caimi on it, who is a big deal in Brazil, and Oscar Casaneves is singing on it. This album, although I'm a jazz musician and there's lots of solos on it, but the concept is probably my most Brazilian album of all of them.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then on a later album, I pick a song out which is Chorino, which is another type of Brazilian music, a song called Chorino No. 14.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, Chorino is a Brazilian style. It's an instrumental style that is very old, older than Samba and older than Bossa Nova and no vocals on that style. It's all instrumental. It's very virtuosic and a lot of jazz musicians like Choro because it kind of sounds a little jazzy. I don't know. It's something that instrumentalists like and I have a whole bunch of... original shoulders that i wrote all of these brazilian albums they always have a couple of my brazilian shoulders and the number 14 is that's one of them yes

SPEAKER_01:

another of the albums i think you like a lot is uh junity

SPEAKER_00:

That's beautiful, too. And that's Misha Tsiganov on piano and his arrangement. He's a Russian piano player who lives in New York. We play together a lot. So that album is his brainchild, his arrangements and his Russian romantic sensitivity. Russia is, of course, not the home of jazz, but they have a serious soul over there for music. You know, if you listen to Tchaikovsky and all that, that is all very dark and very beautiful, very romantic. And here we go again. works was the harmonica. So Junity is that, a product of that.

SPEAKER_01:

And I've got you playing Ruby My Dear on here, which is a Thelonious Monk tune. So you're doing a cover. You do covers too?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, we cover a lot of stuff. We have a couple of Beatles tunes on it, but the arrangements are all by Misha. And that's important because he has that Russian thing. He added that to my language.

SPEAKER_01:

Harmonicus Rex is a more modern album, I think 2016. I do a song on there, which is one of my absolute favorite jazz melodies, which is Dine That Dream.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, Harmonica's Rex is one of my three albums that I did with the great jazz drummer Jimmy Cobb. Jimmy Cobb, of course, is on Kind of Blue, the classic jazz album he played with everybody. And he passed away a couple of years ago, but he was here in New York and he made it to, I don't know, 92, 94. And he was playing great until the end. So it was my pleasure and my honor to... Play with them a few times. Harmonica's Rex is one of them. It's the middle one out of the three. So this is a real jazz session, straight-ahead jazz, nothing Brazilian on it.

SPEAKER_01:

So, wow, I mean, playing with, you know, someone who recorded, like you say, the drummer from the Kind of Blue album. What was that like? Did he talk about Miles Davis at all? Give you any stories?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, we also did tours with Jimmy Cobb. I did several of these long tours in Europe with Jimmy Cobb. And that's when you really talk, because if you're together all the time, you know, you're on those long bus rides. And yes, he talked. I mean, sometimes you had to ask him, but he was a very social guy and very open. And I got a lot of my jazz education as a listening to his stories, because it's not only the notes, it is really understanding, as I said before with Brazil, it's understanding the culture that makes the difference. That helps you play the music right.

SPEAKER_01:

The final album on my list is Cabin in the Sky from 2018. Is this your most recent album or have you done another one since?

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, that's not my most recent. That is the duo album with Bill Cunliffe, a great jazz piano player who lives in Los Angeles. That is a duo album except for one cut where we added strings on it afterwards. But since then, there are a few albums. I think there's Manhattan Samba, a jazz album. Well, actually, now that you say that, I have not updated my website in a while. I'm building a new one, but the one that you can see or that is public kind of ended there. After that, there have been two or three albums under my name and another three or four albums where I'm the featured artist. So it's time for me to work on my website. There has been other albums after Kevin and Scott, especially the new one was the WDR big band, Samba Jazz Odyssey, which is a Samba Jazz album with big band. Last one, but there are other albums. I did a Christmas album. Actually, no, my Christmas album is new. What is that called? Christmas Vibes. And there are other albums with Rufus Reid that are not under my name, but I'm the featured soloist. So there's always something coming up.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, brilliant. And so what's it like doing a Christmas album? There's a harmonica on that as well as vibes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, that's evenly divided. Lots of vibes and a lot of harmonica. course we recorded that in the summer as all christmas albums but that was released last year but the the christmas albums especially in america is something that never dies because every time the holiday season comes around you promote it again and the radio stations play it again so this is probably something that will stay for a

SPEAKER_01:

while you mentioned there obviously you've you've recorded lots of your own albums though we've just been through but um but then some of the other people you play with um charlie bird austrid gilberto james moody i've got you doing a¶¶ Is this all from the sort of New York session scene?

SPEAKER_00:

Most of that, those things, yes. Those are definitely New York sessions. Astor Gilberto, Olivia Newton-John. Sometimes there are other things where I fly out and record something for somebody somewhere else, but...

SPEAKER_01:

Manfredo Fest, he's a Bossa Nova piano legend, so you've got recording with him as well.

UNKNOWN:

.

SPEAKER_01:

So this is an example of outside of New York, is it?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Actually, we did a few albums recorded in New York under his name. I think we did three albums or he did three albums where I'm on. That was recorded in New York. But the one that you're probably referring to, Dig That Summer, that was recorded in Europe again in one of those famous tours that we did.

SPEAKER_01:

You seem to do a lot of work in Europe. Maybe you should consider moving back to Europe, Hendrik.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know. I like it here.

SPEAKER_01:

Another thing that you did is you wrote a song for

SPEAKER_00:

a movie. That was a Hollywood movie, but I didn't write the whole music. I just wrote a song that they played in the music, but I'm actually in there on screen playing vibraphone. They hired a Bossa Nova band and they wanted an original song. So I wrote the song and I played it on screen. That is also a while ago. That was 1994, but there's still royalties coming in. Not much, but there's always something coming in.

SPEAKER_01:

There is a YouTube clip of you on screen on that movie, so I'll put a little clip to that so people can see you in action. You mentioned about the fact that you see yourself as a composer. first and foremost and um you know so what about that you also write lyrics as well yeah

SPEAKER_00:

i write lyrics occasionally because i don't really there's not much happening for my songs being sung by people because they don't really know me for that and sometimes other people write lyrics to my songs i usually just write songs and or tunes and some of them work well for singers that's how that develops but i really write mostly instrumental stuff

SPEAKER_01:

so how do you go about composing a song then do you do this using you know the whole harmonica or the vibes or you know anything else

SPEAKER_00:

no never on the harmonica vibes anything i compose is at the piano i sit down at the piano or a keyboard whatever i have play around and then something happens later on i see if it sounds good or light lies good on the harmonica the vibes but the song starts at the piano

SPEAKER_01:

so you're a good enough piano player now to to obviously do that you know how would you say your piano playing is

SPEAKER_00:

every jazz musician plays some piano i don't play piano but i can sit at the piano and play the chords and the melody and and find the the right chords. Every jazz musician, with few exceptions, can sit down at piano and play something to figure out what to improvise, really, for the theory. And so you end up playing some piano, but I definitely am not able to play a gig on piano, no way.

SPEAKER_01:

And then talking about teaching, you've got some lessons on the chromatic harmonica on mymusicmasterclass.com, which I'll put a link on to the podcast page.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that is a company that records educational videos. I did a video for them and we set a topic. My topic was jazz phrasing on the harmonica. And then I went to a studio and talked about how to do that, what I find important. And it's a pretty popular video. People like that. And I also teach online private lessons on chromatic harmonicas so I've been doing that for a while.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, and if people want to contact you, is your email address the best way to do that?

SPEAKER_00:

Sure. Email, website, whatever they find. Facebook, Instagram, the usual. If they find me, they can get in touch with me somehow.

SPEAKER_01:

Great, and then we mentioned, obviously you played at the Blue now. You've also played at the Trossingen in Germany there. Have you been there a few times? I

SPEAKER_00:

played once at their festival. That's also forever. I don't even know how long that is ago. That is 1999, 1998, something, 2000. I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01:

What do you think now of the chromatic sort of players that are out there, you know, particularly the jazz ones, you know, they've certainly got some good players now and, you know, what's your assessment of the healthiness of the chromatic jazz scene these days?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there's a new generation of great chromatic harmonica players. When I was coming up and I was, you know, in the 90s when all that started, there was really a handful at most. There was always toots, the big toots, overshadowing everything and then there were a handful, I would say, jazz harmonica players at most around that has completely changed. There's a whole new generation of very capable harmonica players. And it's interesting. It also has to do with the fact that jazz has changed. I was still a straight ahead jazz player and harmonica is not really the right instrument for that. So that was a little bit of an uphill battle. But since music is more modern and more global and incorporates other styles, it's also easier for the harmonica to find a home because, you know, there's not much of a resistance as it was in the old days. There's a new generation of great players. For my money, I still believe that Toots is the man. I have not heard anything that would knock him off his throne.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think he's always going to be up there, isn't he, for sure. A lot of people who play chromatic aspire to play jazz. It's a challenging form of music. What are the challenges you'd say for the chromatic to play jazz?

SPEAKER_00:

The things that are needed in jazz, just playing legato and connected and making smooth lines are just difficult on the chromatic because of the in and out blowing, the nature of the instrument. It's not impossible, but it's not a natural thing. If you play a little bit saxophone, you can sound pretty jazzy very soon because it kind of lies natural on the instrument. On harmonica, it's an effort and it's just a hard instrument in jazz because of the way the harmonica is set up. It's not impossible, but it's not something that falls into your lap. So if you want to be a really good jazz harmonica player, you've got to be really dedicated because there will be a lot of problems that you have to solve along the way.

SPEAKER_01:

What would you bring out as a kind of the good parts of the chromatic for jazz then? What's it suited for?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's a horn. It's a wind instrument. It's an instrument where you can find your own voice. It's an instrument where you can express emotions very well, like violin and saxophone. It's just the sound is just not what you expect in jazz. But there is, you know, as I said, Tooth's found it. Maybe there are other people finding something else that is as valid, but the potential of the instrument is there. It's hard technically to play jazz on it, but it's made up by a lot of other things that other instruments don't have.

SPEAKER_01:

You've had a great career so far. Obviously, we talked through your extensive catalogue of albums and recordings earlier on. So how have you found getting into the jazz scene? Obviously, you've gone to New York, as we mentioned as well. Has that been a real challenge, particularly with the chromatic harmonica?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it is, but... Oh, it was... But what's the choice? You know, that's my instrument. I want to play jazz. So you go through the motions. Nobody was really, I mean, very rarely did I actually encounter resistance. There are a couple of experiences where somebody actually expressed something about harmonica not being the right thing for jazz. I remember a couple of things there. But other than that, sometimes, you know, the novelty... makes up for that people always think oh my god i had no idea you can play that on harmonica those are things that i don't really enjoy hearing this is not a novelty it's my instrument but there's always somebody who says oh it's unbelievable i couldn't how can you do that such a small instrument and you play so fast i mean that is a very unmusical comment you know it's not about that you master difficult instruments about that you play some something musically valuable but the harmonica it's not a mainstream instrument so you have to deal with the good and bad there are some things that are not great and reaction and other things are overly positive if you like them or not.

SPEAKER_01:

And like you say there, I think the fact that it's not another saxophone gives it some uniqueness of sound, doesn't

SPEAKER_00:

it? Yes, totally, definitely, yes. There are the good and the bad, but they are both there and there's no way of brushing that aside. You have to arrange yourself with the situation.

SPEAKER_01:

And so what about diatonic? Do you play any diatonic harmonica at all?

SPEAKER_00:

Not at all. I could not play the diatonic to save my life. I don't even own one.

SPEAKER_01:

What about any of the orchestral

SPEAKER_00:

harmonicas? Nothing. I'm a jazz player who plays chromatic and that's it.

SPEAKER_01:

So a question asked each time, Hendrik, is if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it changed over the years. Now, if I just sit down, I just play... long tones and maybe slow ballads I just like to enjoy the sound of the instrument if I have something challenging coming up I will make sure that I practice fast stuff you know and get back in shape but I play harmonica for the sound so first I want to get the sound so I would probably play for 10 minutes just something nice and in the low register just to get reacquainted with the instrument that's what I do now and back in the older days I was practicing all the hard and difficult stuff

SPEAKER_01:

So like you said back then, obviously jazz is pretty serious stuff, so lots of scales practice, and I think you were transcribing Charlie Parker solos and all that good stuff, yeah?

SPEAKER_00:

That's what I did early on, in my Berkeley days when I learned the language. I did everything any other jazz musician would do, except I applied it to the harmonica, but that's what you do. You transcribe the masters and try to copy it. That's part of the learning process.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, great. And so we'll move on now to talking about gear in the last section. I believe you play a three octave chromatic only.

SPEAKER_00:

That's it. In the old days, one of the earlier albums, there's Samba in Portado. I think I still played a four octave 16 hole, but I've been playing the 12 hole chromatic in the key of C ever since. And that's all I need. And that's all I like. So you never play any other keys? No, I do not. I always tell myself it's cheating. You also don't play a flute in D or a piano in F or whatever. But I understand the benefits of having a harmonica and a different key because there are some keys in general on harmonica that are less comfortable than others. All the keys where you have to inhale and exhale all the time are the uncomfortable keys and they exist. So if you actually take a harmonica that's in a different key, you might make your life easier. But I never did that because I thought, why would I do that? this is my instrument, why would I try to take a shortcut? Other people's do, I do not.

SPEAKER_01:

And I believe you do have your chromatics set up by a customizer.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I have a gentleman, Michael Easton, here in Harrisburg. I send him my harmonicas and he works on them. He sends them back. It's mostly just, you know, tuning them, exchanging the valves and making them smooth again. And it's a battle because I like my old horners and they are mechanically, they have problems, but they have the sound. So we have to make sure that they play smooth.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm sorry, you mentioned obviously playing honers. Any particular types of the honers you play?

SPEAKER_00:

Just the 270.

SPEAKER_01:

So the older 270s or the new ones with the screws?

SPEAKER_00:

Whatever I get. I haven't bought a harmonica in ages, so these are the old ones. We always recycle them and make them playable again. So far, I play the old ones. I'm happy to try the new ones. So far, there was no need.

SPEAKER_01:

What about the embouchure that you use with the chromatic? Are you... Lip pursing, tongue blocking, anything else?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I don't use tongue blocking. I use the spit position, the pursing thing, because I need the tongue for other stuff. I need the tongue to bend. I need the tongue to attack. The tongue blocking, I try that. It's not for me. I don't think it's a very jazzy way to do it, although people are doing it. So God bless them, I don't.

SPEAKER_01:

Have you ever tried out or at least come across the DM-48 MIDI chromatic and what do you think about that? I

SPEAKER_00:

haven't played it. I've heard it and I have students who play it and they play it for me. It's interesting and maybe one day I might try it, but I play the harmonica because I like the sound of the harmonica. I like the acoustic sound of the harmonica. If you do the other one, if you do the digital one, then you play a synthesizer trigger and And you sound, that's nice and interesting, but I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_01:

What about any particular favorite keys when you're playing on the C chromatic? Do you stick to certain keys or are you quite happy to play any key?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there are definitely good keys, you know, like F, B flat, F minor, C minor. There are keys, it's all the keys where you have the choice of staying on one breath for as long as possible, which means all the keys that have C or F in it, you have choices on those notes, which means you can stay in the same direction of breath for the longer time, which makes it easy. Bad keys are like E major. I just hope I don't.

SPEAKER_01:

And what about amplification? You mentioned some of the challenges about playing live, but when you are playing live, are you just generally using the PA?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I have a little amp that I bring around if I can. Yeah, I play through the PA if it's necessary, but then you have to have some kind of communication with the sound engineer. And what about any effects? Well, I definitely like reverb, obviously. You know, if you think about Toots Telemans and the ballads, so I definitely like reverb. And some EQ to make it less shrill and less trebly. I try to create some body, you know, boost the bass or take out the mids. But anything that makes it warm is welcome. And some tasty reverb. And then the harmonica starts sounding good.

SPEAKER_01:

So final question then, just about your future plans. I think you've already mentioned you've got a few kind of recording projects coming up.

SPEAKER_00:

Next week, I'm do an album here in New York with a gentleman who's coming in from Hong Kong. After that, I have a tour in Germany for 10 days. Then I come back here. Then there is a recording in Miami. Then I'm going to Toronto for a recording or gigs, actually. Then I teach at Berklee in the summer. And during that time, there are another recordings. There's always something. There's another thing in Germany. Oh, there's a harmonica summit in Hong Kong in September. Traveling and recording, yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Fantastic. Great to hear you're so busy, Hendrik, and doing so well. Yeah, I can't complain. So thanks so much for joining me today, Hendrik Merkens. Yes,

SPEAKER_00:

thanks for having

SPEAKER_01:

me. Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Thanks for listening again. Please remember to subscribe to the podcast if you haven't already. And thanks to Robert McCraw for donating to the podcast. What a great player Hendrik is. If anyone has a recording of Hendrik playing with toots on that German radio show, please do get in contact with me. The contact details are on the podcast website And be sure to check out Hendrix's website and Bandcamp page to find his extensive album catalogue. There are links on the podcast page. I'll sign out now with a song from Hendrix's Amazon River album, The Peach.

UNKNOWN:

The Peach Thank you.