Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Erland Westerstrom interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 92

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Erland Westerstrom joins me on episode 92.
Erland is from Sweden, where he studied Swedish folk music on the harmonica at the Royal College of Music in Stockholm, with Filip Jers as one of his teachers there.
Erland released a solo harmonica album in 2020, Andas! (Swedish for breathe), where he makes use of drones, polyphonic rhythms, tongue spilts and other techniques to create self-accompaniment to the melodies of the traditional tunes he plays.
Erland’s latest band is with the trio Västanvinden. This sees the harmonica combining with great effect with the clarinet and cittern, with the harmonica used as much for chordal accompaniment as for melody.
A big part of Erland’s music is playing for dancers, who are part of the show in Sweden.
Erland also does some harmonica maintenance work as well as teaching in Stockholm and online. He is touring with the Västanvinden trio in Europe later in 2023.


Links:

Erland's website:
http://www.folkmunspel.se/english

Contact:
erland.westerstrom@icloud.com

Blog:
http://www.folkmunspel.se/blogg

Custom harmonicas for sale:
http://www.folkmunspel.se/till-salu

Great resource for traditional Swedish tunes:
folkwiki.se

Audio-Technica ATM350 mic:
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-gb/atm350

Videos:

From Andas! Album:
https://youtu.be/6E3jK0Hj71I

With Bjorn Gardner:
https://youtu.be/6E3jK0Hj71I

With Vastanvinden trio:
https://youtu.be/eNDmadf1k0M

Tremolo playing:
https://youtu.be/7CXqJ4-v1wU

Graduation concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKKNMHmeR6o


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

or sign-up to a monthly subscription to the podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/995536/support

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS


Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

Orland Westerström joins me on episode 92. Orland is from Sweden, where he studied Swedish folk music on the harmonica at the Royal College of Music in Stockholm, with Philip Jers as one of his teachers there. Orland released a solo harmonica album in 2020, Andas, she's Swedish for breathe, where he makes use of drones, polyphonic rhythms, tongue splits and other techniques to create self-accompaniment to the melodies of the traditional tunes he plays. Arland's latest band is with the trio Vastanvinden. This sees the harmonica combining with great effect with the clarinet and sittern, with the harmonica used as much for chordal accompaniment as for melody. A big part of Arland's music is playing for dancers, who are part of the show in Sweden. Arland also does some harmonica maintenance work as well as teaching in Stockholm and online. He is touring with the Vastanvinden trio in Europe later in 2023. This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

SPEAKER_02:

Seidel Harmonicas

SPEAKER_00:

Hello, Arland Westström, and welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00:

Great to speak to you. So you're based in Sweden? Are you sort of mainly focusing on Swedish folk music?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, that would be. That's the thing I'm working with. I'm mostly specialized in folk music and traditional music.

SPEAKER_00:

Whereabouts are you based in Sweden?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I'm in Stockholm, in the capital. So that's where I was born. I'm from here.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. Is there a good... music scene in Stockholm and Swedish folk music specifically?

SPEAKER_05:

It is but the folk music scene is a bit how to say it it's a bit secret maybe actually I didn't discover it until in my early 20s so before that I played music but I didn't really find the Swedish folk scene but it is definitely here and there are many great musicians living in Stockholm.

SPEAKER_00:

Great we'll get into that so a really interesting thing I discovered and I have talked to a couple of other swedish players but the swedish for harmonica i believe is uh munspiel yes i checked out the google translator this and uh mun stands for mouth and spiel stands for game so it's mouth game is that a correct pronunciation

SPEAKER_05:

not really game it's more like it's spiel it also means to play like the the word to play and to like to play an instrument so it's more like you play it with your mouth the literal translation

SPEAKER_00:

So mouth play is a great way to think about playing the harmonica, I think. Exactly, it's a

SPEAKER_05:

very accurate one, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's beautiful, yeah. So what got you into playing the harmonica?

SPEAKER_05:

My first instrument was the clarinet in the public music school here. So I played that for many years, but I started playing harmonica, I picked it up maybe in seventh or eighth grade, I think, in my early teens. Mainly I was fascinated with the sound and I also listened to some blues music, so... That's how I started. And I remember I had like one summer I started playing the harmonica. I had the harmonica and a book. I don't remember which one right now, but I was just trying to pick up some melodies and some blues licks and really trying over and over again that summer. And I learned to bend some notes and took some steps and then it stuck with me. but I mostly kept it as a side instrument for many years.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Did you have sort of classical sort of, you know, training on the clarinet?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, more or less. My first teacher wasn't really like, I mostly played a variety of things and he was not pushing me that hard. So we tried many different things and played various tunes together on the clarinet. But later on, I had a classical teacher who was very inspiring. So then I started playing more classical things. I have I played clarinet in a symphonic orchestra, for example.

SPEAKER_00:

So do you still play the clarinet now?

SPEAKER_05:

Not really. I keep one in my closet, more or less, and sometimes I pick it up to try if I can get a tone, and it usually works, but then I put it back again. Now I play almost exclusively harmonica.

UNKNOWN:

.

SPEAKER_00:

What about any similarities between clarinet and harmonica? Anything that, you know, helped you with the harmonica that, you know, you'd learned on the clarinet?

SPEAKER_05:

Many things, I think, but one is the breathing, because I had like a good breathing from very, very deep from your diaphragm. I knew how to do that. But it's, of course, also different because on the clarinet, you need to have a very high pressure. And for the harmonica, you don't want to have pressure. You want to just breathe, relax. But I had good control over those breathing muscles and also to get a good tone i think it's also important on under wind instruments like the clarinet so you know how to shape your mouth to get a good tone

SPEAKER_00:

but you know so you're obviously playing in an orchestra she said there so you you were reading music to quite a good level yeah so is that something you've carried forward onto the harmonica

SPEAKER_05:

yeah when i started on harmonica i i used some tablature and but I quickly like left that behind and just played by ear so for me mostly I mostly play by ear but it's really good to to be able to read sheet music for two reasons mainly one is to find new repertoire from sheet music and the other is to if you have like very complicated arrangements and stuff it's it's good to have it written down for me at least

SPEAKER_00:

for reading would you you know play say the chromatic and and diatonic more by ear or anything like that or do you not really distinguish them too much?

SPEAKER_05:

I don't really play the chromatic harmonica I tried it a few times I'm kind of almost intimidated by the chromatic because I feel like if I started playing it I have to start learning all the scales and it's like too much work for the music style I play and also the diatonic really fits the style I play but I learned to read sheet music for the diatonic and to switch between different keys and even different tunings I suppose it's a good like practical music theory to have the music theory like by heart the intervals and that helped me a lot to start to read music I know which harp it is and which position, and I just identify the root, the fifth, etc. in the sheet music, rather than thinking about note names.

SPEAKER_00:

So going back, so you have a higher education in music. You went to the Royal College of Music in Stockholm. Was this mainly on the harmonica?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes. I didn't have a second instrument, really. I played only harmonica there.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. And so was this specifically a folk chorus?

SPEAKER_05:

It was on the folk music, the In Stockholm, it's because you can apply either in Swedish folk music. And when I say folk music, I mostly mean traditional music. So it's not like folk songs and stuff like that, like later. I mean, the term folk music is very broad, but this is for the traditional music industry. here in sweden and you can also apply for for a more like if you play traditional music from other parts of the world so one of my classmates he for example he he he sings like english folk and and stuff like that so he he applied for this other course but we had we studied together in one class but most of the people there study swedish folk

SPEAKER_00:

so yeah great that you can you know, you can study folk music there specifically. And so Philip Jers, it's someone else I had on the podcast previously. He also went to the Royal College of Music in Stockholm. Yeah. And he was one of your teachers there. Is that right?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, that's right. He was my teacher for three years. For me, they did the special arrangement because I play the harmonica and all the teachers there, they play other instruments, of course. So I had a split Most other students had one main teacher every year, but I split my hours, so I had half of the time I had. First year I had a violin teacher, and the second year I had a flute teacher, and the third year I had an accordion teacher. And they all taught me how to play in the traditional style and how to learn tunes and all these things. And then I had Filip also, so he helped me with all the harmonica-related stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

Great, yeah. Again, picking on the other instruments there, you mentioned violin, accordion, flute. But you were playing obviously the harmonica. So what about translating what they were teaching into the harmonica?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, it was great because, for example, when I had the violin teacher, she... She might wanted me to play something and she asked like, can you do this? It could be like an intonation thing to do a quarter tone, for example, or some kind of ornament. And then I could bring this question to Philip and we tried to figure out together how to solve this problem, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00:

So you mentioned, obviously, you specialize in Swedish traditional music and in folk music specifically. So could you tell us a bit about that? And I know that's something you're interested in. You're interested in the history and culture of the music here.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, that's correct. Yeah, I play the Swedish traditional music or folk music scene. It's very much like a living tradition. There's a lot of music that's been played continuously and taught from person to person over generations and there is also a very active dance scene which is quite different because in many countries there is like a kind of folk dancing that is a reconstruction or like you show folk dance but this is an active dance where you go to a dance night and you dance these folk dances together in a very improvised and spontaneous way So this is something I really like about the folk scene in Sweden. Well, some more about the music. We have some different types of tunes that are specific to Sweden, mostly the different types of polska tunes. And it's a dance that comes from Poland originally. That's the name, polska. But that was several hundred years ago, and since then it has evolved a lot.

SPEAKER_02:

so

SPEAKER_00:

is that polska is that related to polka or is it something different

SPEAKER_05:

yeah it's something different it's it's easy to mix them up but no not really polka is more like a 19th century thing and it's uh it's a two beat so we also play polka here but uh Polska is really the thing. The most common type of polska is a three beat and it's not really even. So it's the way you dance. It's like you walk on the first and the third beat and then there's a pause in the middle. So it's kind of a special kind of rhythm to the three beat. Quite different from waltz, for example.

SPEAKER_00:

So, I mean, how much do you perceive that Swedish folk music is played outside of Sweden? I mean, obviously, you know, Irish music is kind of very famously probably played as a main traditional music. There's quite a lot of American type folk music. And so, you know, is Swedish folk music played in many of the places, do you think?

SPEAKER_05:

It is played in many places, but it's a very small scene outside of Sweden, I would say. But I know there are some people and some enthusiasts in Japan, for example, and in other countries in Europe, like Germany, and also many... Many people come to Sweden to learn this, to study in the music academy, for example, at the folk music department. I knew many people from France and Belgium and etc. who come to the Nordic countries to study because the folk scene is much more active here.

SPEAKER_00:

Sure, and as we go through some of your songs later, hopefully people will hear a song that they might want to learn, a Swedish folk song. So that would be great if we can get some people learning a few Swedish folk songs. So it's like a resource besides your own music, which you'll listen to where, you know, people can find Swedish folk music like, you know, the tablature, for example, or the music or, you know, in recordings.

SPEAKER_05:

I think tablature will be difficult. So if you can read sheet music, it's possible to find a lot. But it may be mostly in Swedish, so you need to either do some guessing or use some translation software. But there are some great resources online to find tunes.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, if you share that link with me, I'll put that on the podcast page so people can find that. That'd be great, thanks. So what about playing Swedish folk music on the harmonica? Are you mainly playing in first position or are you moving into playing second position and others?

SPEAKER_05:

Well, for me, I mostly play in in first position. And that's kind of the traditional way of playing. I think it gives the biggest sound. It fits the music very well for this style. But I do, for example, if it's a different mode, like a Mixolydian mode with a flat seventh, I might use second position. If it's a Dorian mode, I use third position. And some other minor scales, I might use third position as well. So it depends, but mostly first position. And I also use minor harmonicas in a few different tunings.

SPEAKER_00:

And, you know, one thing I've been reading about your music is, you know, you kind of put a sort of modern approach to the traditional music, your interpretation, and obviously playing it on harmonica as well. So what about that?

SPEAKER_05:

Well, the modern stuff that I bring to it, I think, is some extended techniques like overblows and bending that I use to complete the scale on the instrument. So that's one thing. And I also try to explore some more sounds on the instrument to use. For example, I play using the overtones of the tone to kind of a bit like a yaw harp. I use that for accompaniment a lot. That's not really a traditional thing. But the, in quotation marks, modern parts, that's mostly the overblows and the bending. That's not done by traditional players.

SPEAKER_00:

So are there... quite a few other people in Sweden playing the traditional music on harmonica.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, there are some older players traditional playing in traditional styles and also some younger not many who are like active and playing concerts a lot or in bands and etc and there are players like Philip Gers who you mentioned and he plays a lot of folk material and he also did this recording with Joko Kihle from Finland for example playing traditional music so he definitely does that but he is mostly a jazz player I would say and I think he would agree

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I noticed Philip, I've seen his post recently, he's doing very well with the Toots tribute album he's just released. So yeah, he's definitely playing jazz at the moment. And so what about your transition to folk music? You mentioned that initially... The first thing you heard on harmonica, like many of us, was blues harmonica. So how did you move then across to the folk side?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I discovered the folk scene. through some some friends and i i started going to there is there are some places where you can dance and jam and hang out with people so i started going to these places and parties and like trying to jam along with the tunes and try to learn how to play initially i brought my clarinet but it was really i found it difficult because i had played so much from sheet music so i was not that used to to learning by ear some of it can be quite challenging to play uh folk music on clarinet also, because the tunes are very busy, you're playing all the time, and the clarinet is kind of demanding to play, so you get tired quickly. So I started using my harmonica instead. Yeah, it kind of stuck with me, and I really liked it, so I kept working on it. Transition from blues, it kind of helped me that I had already learned how to bend notes, for example, and also do some I had tried that. I had that technique before I started to learn. folk music. So I incorporated that quite early on.

SPEAKER_00:

So how did you develop from there? You started, like you say, going to these parties, these get-togethers. Did you then start playing in any bands, playing this type of music?

SPEAKER_05:

Well, at that time, I was not going all in on music. I was studying at the university. I studied language and art history. So I had a lot of other things going on. And I also had my first daughter at that time. So in my early 20s, well, I played like on the side and that When I was in a student band, or we call it Spelmanslag, that's like a gathering of traditional players. Spelman is like a fiddler or like player of traditional music. So I joined this student group and that helped me a lot to learn a lot of tunes. If you join a group like that, you quickly get a big repertoire.

SPEAKER_00:

Going on then to your recording career. So the first person I've got you recordings released with is Bjorn Gardner. Is that right?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, we met at the Royal Academy.

SPEAKER_00:

So this type of music is, well, certainly on the first album, which is the Ballads and Lullabies album. Yes. You play on a song called Autumn Bell.

UNKNOWN:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

This is more of a kind of folk singer-songwriter type of music, yeah?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, it is. Bjarn is quite an interesting... musician because he has he's like a folk rock musician but he is he also studied composition like in a modern classical composition and he also did did a degree in folk music in traditional singing both nordic and and in other styles like english and american so so he has a lot of different influences but but it's mainly in a singer-songwriter style i would agree on that

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so you're playing this kind of melodic kind of uh ballad on this first one but but the second album with him. I guess, is it more kind of traditional folk sort of sounding?

SPEAKER_05:

It's more of a traditional music, but it's also more of a folk rock album. And he is working with the sound engineer and producer. They do a lot of work on the recordings and add effects and some electronic sounds also to the music.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and of course singing in Swedish as well, which I think is great. And you do some playing in between the lyrics.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_04:

Bända oss en säng När sängen den var bedatt Och rosor ströda i jaja

SPEAKER_00:

And then in 2020, you released a solo album, so a solo harmonica album called Andas, which means breathe in English. Yes. Great. So was this a kind of a pandemic project and hence maybe one of the reasons you did a solo album?

SPEAKER_05:

No, actually, it was recorded in 2019. There was a delay before I released it. It was going to be released in April 2020. So we had to postpone the release concert. The album was kind of the conclusion of my studies at the Royal Academy. So I recorded it just at the very end of my bachelor studies in music.

SPEAKER_00:

Was it part of your degree? Did you submit it for anything?

SPEAKER_05:

Not really, but it was part of it. We had some courses you could take where you could do a musical project that was very free and open. So I choose to make this album and to do the recording and everything. So it was the result of a school project, but not really the release of the album that I had to do afterwards.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so tell us then something about recording a solo harmonica album. So there have been other solo harmonica albums, quite a few of them, you know, so what did you have to do to release a solo album? Well, for

SPEAKER_05:

me, it was not that difficult. The thing is, if you play in this traditional traditional style and you play tunes. The harmonica is actually a very accomplished solo instrument. You have everything you need. You have the melody. If you play with tongue blocking, you can add rhythm and chords, and you can make small arrangements with extra notes. And since this Swedish traditional music is very melody-based, if you work on your melody playing, you have all the components you need, more or less.

SPEAKER_02:

¶¶

SPEAKER_05:

So it's quite common with solo albums for different instruments, where solo fiddle albums are very common here. So it was not that difficult to do solo pieces, but then I had, of course, to pick together a collection of tunes that I like and to make a variety for the album. So that's, of course, a challenge, but I think playing solo is not that intimidating if you play in this traditional style.

SPEAKER_00:

We should mention as well that you do do one song with another instrument, which was with a harp. Yes. So, you know, why did you choose to record with a harp?

UNKNOWN:

piano plays

SPEAKER_00:

It's been done before where a harmonica player is recorded with a harp. I don't know if it's just because of the, you know, the name harp goes with the harmonica harp. Is that your motivation?

SPEAKER_05:

It's a bit of a coincidence that it was the harp I did. It was, that is my former wife who's playing the harp there. Okay. So we wanted to do a tune together. Yeah, she plays a lot of different instruments, but I thought the harp would fit nicely.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely does. Yeah. So, you know, let's go into some detail on the songs in here then. So the first one I picked out is the Send Polska Eftergården Lang. Göran Long. So this is a very sort of mournful one. You're playing lots of drones and double stops.

SPEAKER_05:

That one is the Zen Polska. It's also a Polska tune, but it's a very slow Polska. And that's one I played with my flute teacher. I learned from him. Or it's not really flute. How do you say it? It's more like a tin whistle, but made from wood. Yeah, he plays all kinds of flutes and recorders. things but i learned it from that teacher and i've been working on this drone technique for many years before i i was able to use it for an entire tune like that it's it's uh it takes a really long time to learn to play a consistent drone. I don't know if everyone knows this, but since there is, if you have a standard tuned harmonica or a minor tuned harmonica, you can use the two draw and the three blow. They are the same note. So you can, if you are very precise with how you move your mouth and use tongue blocking, you can keep this note all the time to create a drone effect. So this was one of the first tunes where I really learned how to do this technique

SPEAKER_00:

Again, this being a solo album, you've used something which is polyphonic harmonica, where you're playing, as you say with the drone, you're playing more than one note at a time and accompanying yourself by doing tongue blocking and that sort of thing. Is that something you use quite a lot in this solo album?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, I try to use a variety of techniques like that, either like this in a polyphonic way or to use tongue blocking in a more rhythmic way. I really try to... explore the different ways to make arrangements for the solo harmonica without kind of harming the melody playing. The melody playing is always the most important thing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so if you maybe give people a few ideas about polyphonic playing or other techniques, as you say, to sort of accompany yourself in this way, if people are interested in that sort of approach on harmonica, because it's not used that much. It is used quite a bit, but yeah, it's a reasonably unique and unexplored area of the harmonica thing isn't it?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah it is I really enjoyed exploring it I think others should do it too it's I think the reason might be because so many players they play like in a traditional blues style and that style has has a lot of these techniques but it's used only in some specific ways for example you play octaves or you might play the two draw and the five draw to have this seventh sound but there are so many other intervals you can play but those don't really fit in a blues context they fit in in many other styles so that's maybe one reason for me I kind of I try to find for example how many chords can you play on the harmonica if you allow yourself to play only two notes you can play almost complete chord. You can play the root and the third or the third and the fifth, for example. And then I wrote down all the notes on one harmonica and tried to find all these combinations and how to make them using tongue blocking or using only two notes. That's really helped me in accompanying and also in adding notes. effects to the melody playing.

SPEAKER_00:

And to do this are you sometimes using different tuned harmonicas so that you can get chords to the chords that you need and that sort of thing?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, mostly when I use retuned harmonicas it's mainly for major key tunes I always use the normal Richter tuning but for minor tunes they are in the Swedish tradition they are most of the minor key tunes they are in the kind of harmonic minor or melodic minor minor kind of scale so it uses a major seventh but there can also be like a mix of a major and a minor seventh and a major and a minor sixth so you need to have access to all these notes and on the normal harmonic minor harmonica it's almost impossible to play the minor seventh for example of the scale in the higher register so I needed to retune my harmonicas mainly in the top end to be able to bend more notes and to have extra notes. But that also created some additional chords that may be useful.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, sure. I always think that when people are trying to learn songs, obviously they've got to know that If you're using a different tuned harmonica to play a certain song, they might not be able to play it. Well, they wouldn't be able to play it on their standard Richter-tuned harmonica yet. But most of the songs on this album are played on either a standard or a minor-tuned Richter. They're with just a few variations in tuning on the minors.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes. For example, one simple modification you can make to a harmonic minor harmonica is to raise the sixth draw. A semitone. The only thing different from a normal Richter harmonica are the minor thirds for the blow notes. So the rest is exactly like the normal standard tuning. And then you can bend the sixth draw. So you get both the major sixth and the minor sixth. And then you can also overblow on whole sixth to get the minor seventh. So that's a good one if you want to play minor tunes.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So I know another thing you mentioned is that you're using... tongue blocking for different combinations not just the usual octaves or like the seventh octaves as well so is that something you're using a lot in your playing as well

SPEAKER_05:

yeah i certainly do i use a lot like to play fifths or then i block only one hole or to play a sixth interval for example it's very nice some of these sounds like these polyphonic sounds they are come from the fiddle style so fiddle player often use drone strings or they they add they use double stops, and so many of these intervals that the fiddlers use, I try to copy on the harmonica to get the same sound.

SPEAKER_00:

And is that something you picked up from your fiddle teacher in your course?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, and from listening to a lot of fiddle music and how they play.

SPEAKER_00:

Great, so a lot of the time you're just blocking one hole instead of two, are you, to do a lot of these tongue blocks?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes,

SPEAKER_00:

so

SPEAKER_05:

I... I also use sometimes, I don't think I recorded it on any albums, but one thing you can do if you get good at tongue blocking, you can create a drone tuning if you have the same note in and out on the first hole, for example. But then you need to be able to stretch your mouth a lot. So I use that as well. So I just keep the hole number one at the left end of my mouth and then play the melody on my right end and then just stretch my mouth to reach the notes.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, so you're keeping the wand continuous and changing the right side of your tongue to change to play the entire melody. Exactly.

SPEAKER_05:

How challenging is that to do? It was challenging at start, but now it feels like I can do it almost without thinking. I only focus on the melody and just keep that note. In a way, it's much easier than doing the two-draw, three-blow drone, because then you have to move on both sides continuously.

SPEAKER_00:

Fantastic. So yeah, so is this, this is a technique and approach you definitely recommend people explore further, yeah?

SPEAKER_05:

If you want some additional sounds like that drone note, yeah, maybe I should play some.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, great. Give us some demo. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

So I have here an A harmonica. It's just the only thing I did, I changed the one draw. So it's also an A note. So then it sounds like...

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Great, so as you said, so the one blow and the one draw are tuned to the same note, so that means you can obviously play the melody on the blow and the draw and maintain that sort of drone note on the A note, yeah?

SPEAKER_05:

Yes,

SPEAKER_00:

and also

SPEAKER_05:

the note, the A note that has the same tone, having two reeds of the same note, it adds a lot of overtones and resonance to the sound, so it creates a really different tone for the whole instrument.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not aware of someone, of anybody else doing that. Did you hear about somebody else doing that or did you come up by yourself with that one?

SPEAKER_05:

I'm sure I'm not the first one, but I, yeah, I did come up with it myself, but there have to be someone else who has done it before. I talked about it with Brendan Power, but he is mostly like, he doesn't play so much tongue blocking. So he, it was not quite the kind of concept he wouldn't have done, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so that's a brilliant idea. That's something I might well try myself. And so, as you said, the rest of the harmonica is to just well usually just ripped to tuned and then you've just got that um that one draw uh retuned

SPEAKER_05:

yeah and you can even do it with with blue tack or something if you want just want to try it

SPEAKER_00:

no that's that's a that's a great approach yeah so you must get a really different sound than a lot of harmonica players you know as you say particularly you know sort of blues you know it's you can sound you know you're getting the same sort of sound so you must be getting really sort of unique sounds by doing these octaves and these you know sort of retunings that you've done

SPEAKER_05:

yeah so i mean playing octaves and intervals i have I have heard examples of that from some traditional players. So there is a traditional style where you are playing almost, it's a bit inspired by accordion music, I would say. So you play the melody on the right side of your mouth, and then you play a rhythm with tongue blocking, with tongue slaps, and then you add bass notes from the left side of your mouth with octaves and other intervals. And that style is, it is part of the traditional style. But that bass note thing, most people don't do that. They do only the melody and rhythm part. I encountered it when I listened to some old recordings.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's fantastic. Yeah, so we'll return back to your album then, just pick out a couple more songs. So an interesting one on there is a song called Man's Olsen.

SPEAKER_05:

It's by Polska after Man's Olsen, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so this is where you're interpreting an old recording of a singer, and so you're playing the melody of the singer on the harmonica, and you've got a recording of each one. for comparisons. Did you just learn all that by ear by, you know, picking up the singing, you know, to the harmonica?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, exactly. So I just studied the recording. played it over and over and tried to copy the sound of the singer and use it as a starting point and inspiration for how to interpret this tune. I mean, depending on the source where you learn the tune, you can get quite different results. So if you study a style of a singer or a fiddler or a clarinet player or any other instrument, it gives a different starting point and a different inspiration for how to interpret the tune.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and there's some other great tunes on here for people to check out. And you actually were nominated for a Swedish Independent Music Producers Award for the Manifest Scholar in 2021 for this one.

SPEAKER_05:

Yes, I was.

SPEAKER_00:

So well done with that. It's a great album. And again, that solo harmonic, it's always really interesting to listen to and the approach you have. So then moving on to another album that you've released is with, I think, your main project now. You're playing in a trio called the Vastanvinden. Is that how you're saying it? Yeah, Vastanvinden. The main group I'm playing with. This is with a clarinet player in a siturn player yes so how did this come about and what about that combination of instruments which i've got to say it sounds really beautiful i really love this album uh and you know it's a great combination with those other two instruments

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_05:

it actually is. It is a great combination of instruments. It is mostly a coincidence that we ended up like that. It started when I met Albin, the clarinet player. He studied actually the nyckelharpa, the key fiddle. It's a special instrument in Sweden at a school north of Stockholm. So he moved close by and he appeared at some jam sessions sometimes and some other places. So I got to know him and we had some nice jams together and I really enjoyed playing with him. He's such a great player and really fun to play with. And then he also got into the Royal Academy of Music the same time I was, after I finished. So I felt like I have to ask him if he wants to play in a band with me before he starts. Otherwise someone else might ask him before and he will be too busy. So I asked him before he started and he was really happy to come and play with me. And then we wanted to have someone else who plays more of a accompaniment instrument so we thought about Louis who is a really amazing sit and play and plays in the style that we really liked so and then yeah we started playing together and we really liked doing it so we kept playing together but the combination of instruments is more like we like it as people and not like an idea about the sound from the start.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but again, it's a beautiful combination of instruments. So sit-in, obviously, is a stringed instrument. And you used to play clarinet, so I guess you've got some understanding of how that works. That maybe helps out with the combination. Yeah, I know what's going on. And so I think a lot of the time you're playing a lot of the sort of chordal stuff beneath the other two instruments as well. That's quite a lot of approach you take to playing that on the harmonica, isn't it?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

The thing is, the clarinet, it obviously can only play one note at a time, but it has a more powerful tone. It's more loud and more clear and more articulated than the harmonica. It's hard to match that, but that gives a lot of punch to the melody. Yeah, so I try to use some other qualities that the harmonica has, like the ability to play chords and rhythm and to add harmony to the melody. Many people would consider playing two holes at the same time when you're playing melody. That's like something beginners do, and you should learn how to play one note at a time. But I use it all the time to add texture to the melody. So if you are doing that carefully and with an intention, it can be a really powerful tool.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I mean, you also... there's a song where you're playing some unison with a clarinet as well is that again something you're using your knowledge of the clarinet

SPEAKER_05:

yeah we we like to play in unison a lot and it's Of course, we played for so long together now, so we kind of know how each other's phrasing. So it's really nice to try and play really tightly together. If you combine two instruments with a different sound you create, it almost becomes like a third instrument. That's the effect we want.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and then you do also play, you know, sort of more, you know, expected kind of melodic parts on the harmonica as well. You know, picking out the tunes on the harmonica, which, you know, because you're doing a lot of accompaniment, you don't do that all the time. But yeah, interested to hear that too. You get your sort of solo sections, I guess.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I do. Actually, I play a melody a lot, but sometimes the clarinet cuts through more. But most of the time I play the melody and add some harmony and rhythmic effects at the same time.

SPEAKER_00:

So again, this is a great album with these. And so this is your main project, she's saying. So have you got plans to release another album with this outfit?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, we have some plans. We want to collect traditional tunes from different parts of Sweden. So we started a project doing that. So we're looking in archive recordings and in all the sheet music where they transcribed some players 100 years ago or more. So we are collecting tunes for this project and the plan is to release three albums in the future. but it's a really ambitious project, so it might take a while before we get there. But that's the plan right now. We have been working a lot with two dancers recently. That project is not very practical for recording. It's more like doing live gigs and video and stuff like that. Is

SPEAKER_00:

that where you're playing at a dance where people will come along and they'll dance to you as playing in the band? Not really. It's the

SPEAKER_05:

same idea, but we are trying to bring that to the stage. So we are working with two dancers. They had formed their own dance And we always felt, because the music we play is mostly dance tunes really. Sometimes when you play for a sitting audience, you feel like some component is missing. If you had someone dancing, some people dancing, the music will make sense and it will be complete in a way. And sometimes you feel like you're missing that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's great. So part of the show then is you play with the trio and you've got the two dancers as part of the show. That must be adding a really interesting visual spectacle to the music, as you're saying, and connecting that connection to dance, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, so the music will make sense in a and we also try to experiment with this format so we try to enter this project as equal participants rather than three musicians and two dancers we are just five people doing music and dancing together so we all move around at the stage and we all sometimes we follow the dancers they take the lead and we follow or one of them does that and so we try to bring some elements from the dance and some elements from how to make musical arrangements and find our own way to make arrangements in this group.

SPEAKER_00:

I noticed another instrument that you do play is the harmonetta, and I got a clip of you playing that at your graduation concert from the Stockholm School of Music.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_00:

Tell us about the harmonetta. I think some people are familiar with it, but is it a harmonica? Well,

SPEAKER_05:

the harmonetta is quite a unique instrument. I would say it's a harmonica instrument. But it's a harmonica with a keyboard. It looks like some kind of Enigma machine from the Cold War, maybe. It was made by Hohner in the, I think, 50s and 60s, maybe 70s. So there are not that many instruments available, but you can quite often find one on eBay or somewhere else if you look around. Basically, it's meant to be a chord harmonica, and that's really what it does best. But you can also use it like a normal harmonica if you use... The style I recently discovered is you can use the chords just like you use breathing in and out on a normal harmonica, and that way you can play melody on it, but with any combination of chords. So it's a really versatile instrument.

SPEAKER_00:

So you're blowing and drawing and pressing buttons at the same time to play it?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, so it has the same notes on blowing and drawing. So, for example, if I picture that I'm playing in... a normal 10-hole diatonic in C. I have the C chord in one finger and then I have the G chord, for example, in another finger. I can use this to emulate me playing a 10-hole to get the melody. And then I add the F major chord when I climb up to the other holes on the harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's a way to play. So pressing the buttons activates a chord, does

SPEAKER_05:

it? Yeah, it's like one button is one note. So it activates that note in three octaves at the same time. And then you use your mouth to select the octaves. So it's like the whole mouthpiece has a lot of holes, but most of them are silent unless you press a button. And the buttons are shaped in a way so you can press three of them together and a triangle that will form a triad, for example. And then other types of chords has another shape. It's really complicated, but it's also a brilliant system.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I've never played one and it probably shows. So yeah, I think you'd have to try it. But you also do maintenance of harmonicas, don't you? And it's available for your website.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, the harmoneta is really a nightmare to put together. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

I noticed that you had the harmoneta on there. But you do offer maintenance of other harmonicas as well, don't you, by your website?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I do. I started out servicing my own harmonicas and then I realized I could do this for other people. They are an many people doing this here in Sweden of course there's Joel Anderson who you featured on the podcast but he mostly he's very busy making custom harmonicas so I do yeah I offer maintenance and I like to rescue old harmonicas to give them a second chance a new life that's one of the things I do yeah

SPEAKER_00:

Great. And you also do some teaching as well. I think one of the things you obviously teach is Swedish folk style. So if people are interested in playing Swedish folk music, they can come to you.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, definitely. Of course, if you come to Sweden, you can look me up. But I also do online teaching. And I teach quite a lot. I have many beginners groups and also more advanced here in Stockholm. And I travel to different parts of Sweden too. to teach. But not only folk styles, but also in a more general... Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I know you're also teaching already a sort of regular... evening course at stockholm folk university there too yeah i i worked there for a long time

SPEAKER_05:

it's actually i think i really like having these beginners groups it really helps you i think if you if you have the time and to to put the effort to teach beginners it's really a great thing it will help you as a player to always stay connected to the basics of the instrument if you have to over and over again yeah question like what is the most important thing to learn and what is the most important thing to get a good sound. It helps a lot to teach beginners.

SPEAKER_00:

Definitely, yeah. And another harmonica which you do play is the tremolo. You didn't play it until you visited a sort of Finnish player, Juuko, and then you've been turned on to the tremolo.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, as part of my studies at the Royal Academy, I just very much like Filip, he basically did the same thing before me. And he really encouraged me to do it as well. I went to Finland, there is a play layer there called Yoko Kyhele. He actually has a PhD in harmonica playing from the Sibelius Academy. And he is working there, teaching. So I learned a lot from him about Finnish folk music. And they use the tremolo harmonica a lot. but in it's tuned in a different so this uh do you know this uh double tremolo harmonicas where you have one key on one side and the another key on the other side so you can flip it

SPEAKER_00:

yeah the clip i put on it's got you playing exactly that yeah

SPEAKER_05:

yeah those those are really fun to play and in finland they had they were sold honer mostly made them in in gc or like two major keys like that but in finland you could actually get them with a major key and a minor key on the other side like the relative minor so you can have c and a minor for example and if you do that you can use both harmonicas in the same tune to get some really nice effects and also to get some missing notes from the minor minor harmonica so i learned about this from yoko and i thought it was really fun so i started playing tremolo harmonicas and but before i was not that into tremolo because you cannot bend notes and you cannot add the extra notes you need and it's it's hard to shape the tone as much as the diatonic so the diatonic is still my main instruments, but it's fun to do some tunes on the tremolo from time to time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely good to have that different approach. A question I ask each time is, if you had 10 minutes of practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

SPEAKER_05:

Well, it depends. I would do probably one of two things. Either I would try to learn a new tune, because I think learning new tunes and songs and melodies, it really helps you If you are always improvising, everything has to come from your own mind, so to say. But if you learn a tune, you might have to learn something that you didn't think about. So it's always good to learn a lot of tunes. And I mean, 10 minutes is not so much, but at least you can get started. Either I would do that or I would just do breathing and tone exercises, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So we'll move on to the last section now and just talk about gear. So what's your harmonica of choice?

SPEAKER_05:

Well, I play both Seidel and Hohner harmonicas. I play the Seidel 1847 mostly model and also some Hohner Marine Band models. And I also use the Joel Anderson Combs for these harmonicas. And I do some customizing of my own to the harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, great. Interesting. We talked about Combs quite a lot in the last podcast episode. So what what do you find about the uh you know using different combs rather than the stock ones

SPEAKER_05:

yeah i find like there is a slight improvement with these performance combs that joel makes first of all they are they are really really nice craftsmanship and they are very stable they have a stable material they are flat they have smooth edges so i like all those details and i think the he does a a kind of shaping of the comb chambers that adds just a few percent maybe, but it gets a bit easier to play and everything is just a little bit better. That's my general feeling about it. It's hard to say pinpoint exactly what it does, but it may be five or 10% better and that can make a big difference if you add all these things together.

SPEAKER_00:

And so you mentioned that you do play overblows a little bit on some of the traditional stuff earlier on so elbow blows you use in much

SPEAKER_05:

i try to use it quite sparsely i i use it for passing notes a lot and also for some main melodic notes when it's needed in the melody so Sometimes I tongue block when I play overblows and sometimes I use the pucker embouchure, but yeah, that depends on the situation. But I'm not really that kind of player who plays in every key on one harmonica or a lot of different positions, but I like to be able to play those missing notes.

SPEAKER_00:

And what about amplification? Are you mainly going for sort of clean sound and so you don't use any, you know, using PAs and things?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, most of the I play through the PA I use a small condenser microphone Audio Technic ATM 350 or 350 so I just hold it it's a like a small instrument microphone so i hold it between my ring finger and little finger so i can add a lot of hand effects and hand tone to the sound

SPEAKER_00:

great and you find holding a small condenser like that you don't pick up a lot of extra noises you know from that because they're very sensitive aren't they to sound you find that works well

SPEAKER_05:

yeah i never had any feedback issues or anything and i and the the i hold the mic in a cup or in my hand so it's really doesn't it isn't picking up any any other sound really i really like it i think more people people should try it even for blues and these if you want to have the acoustic sound it's it's a great a great way to to amplify the harmonica

SPEAKER_00:

yeah you find you get a very pure acoustic sound rather than obviously a lot of people using dynamic microphones for that type of cleaner sound. But you're finding the condenser is a really good way to do that.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, especially if you find the right one. I mean, many condenser microphones have a very sharp... That particular model, I was recommended to try it from Philips and from Yoko as well. They use it a lot for these traditional styles.

SPEAKER_00:

And what about any effects, pedals or anything like that?

SPEAKER_05:

No, not yet at least. I... I try to make the effects with my playing. That's what I've been focusing on mostly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you keep it nice and clean. So not even any effects on the PA, like even touches reverb?

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, a little bit of reverb. Yeah, maybe some compression as well. I leave that to the sound engineer most of the time. But yeah, a little bit of reverb is nice. It depends on the room.

SPEAKER_00:

great and so final question just about your future plans we obviously already talked about your trio and you've got plans there but what about you getting out playing much can people come and see you playing around Sweden or anywhere else

SPEAKER_05:

yeah we will play in Sweden in Malmö the Malmö folk it's a folk club in Malmö with this extended band with the dancers with Vestavinden we are also making a tour a European tour in Belgium and Germany in October so I'm playing for dancing and some other stuff so we have some stuff coming up we will also do a collaboration with an accordion player there

SPEAKER_00:

great and again are these dances where people can come along and dance to your music or is it more that you've got you know kind of choreographed sort of dancing

SPEAKER_05:

uh in in belgium that would also be like social dancing just show up and they often have like a crash course uh before the dance night starts so you can get started even if you don't know all the dances

SPEAKER_00:

yeah we have something in the uk i don't know i have to have them elsewhere called kaylee's where you have a sort of dance call and they they talk you through all the dance moves before the song starts and then you do it is it a similar sort of approach

SPEAKER_05:

but those are more like group dances right yeah yeah so we don't do that a lot it's mostly like couple dances here in sweden so not really but the result mostly like in in a folk club they would start the night with a crash course so you can can learn the basics of the dance before the actual dance night begins.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. Well, maybe you should try your hand at getting some Kaley dance gigs in the UK. That'd be great. I'd love to come along and dance with that, some harmonica.

SPEAKER_05:

I actually, I love those group dances. It's really fun. It adds another dimension because everyone can participate together. Yeah. So we are kind of missing that here in Sweden.

SPEAKER_00:

So thanks so much for joining me today, Arlan Westerström. Yeah, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Great to talk to Arlen today and learn all about Swedish folk music and his approach to playing it on the harmonica. That was Arlen's baby daughter could hear in the background, by the way. She clearly wanted to take part with her daddy. Thanks to David Light for supporting the podcast with a monthly subscription. If you'd like to do the same, click support the show from the link at the end of the podcast show notes. The next episode won't be out for a month or so, as I'm taking a holiday, where of course I'll be taking along my trusty harmonica. So over to Ireland now to play us out with another tune from the Lasting Linden Trio.

UNKNOWN:

. do

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you.