Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Jason Ricci interview: part 2

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 94

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The interview with Jason Ricci continues on episode 94, part 2.
Jason shares how he has matured into his music, including on his 2021 album, City Country City, playing jazz, funk and blues with New Orleans musician Joe Krown. 
Jason goes on to share what he considers to be his best work on harmonica, and the elements that make up a great performance.
He’s recorded two albums with JJ Appleton, and Bad Kind is Jason’s current band, having released two albums so far, and a new album coming out with Bad Kind at the end of the month: Behind The Veil.
Jason has a big social media presence, with Patreon the place to go for his teaching material, with over 600 harmonica related videos available.
And Jason has just released a signature harmonica in partnership with Blue Moon harmonicas.

Links:
Jason’s social media links::
https://mooncat.org/
https://www.instagram.com/jasonricci93/
https://twitter.com/jasonricci93
Patreon page:
https://www.patreon.com/jasonricci
Tip Jason:
PayPal.me/jasonricci
Bandcamp:
https://jasonricci.bandcamp.com/
Harp Gear amplification:
http://harpgear.com/

Videos:

Paul Butterfield induction into the rock ’n roll Hall of Fame:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zix79vpAjG0

2023 SPAH concert:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKPuDDJz66M

Pedal Board (2019):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8CeSabvTy0

Hip-Hug Her with Bad Kind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMlB_rL8REU

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

or sign-up to a monthly subscription to the podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/995536/support

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Ins

Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

The interview with Jason Ritchie continues on episode 94 part 2. Jason shares how he's matured into his music including on his 2021 album City Country City playing jazz funk and blues with New Orleans musician Joe Crown. Jason goes on to share what he considers to be his best work on harmonica and the elements that make up a great performance. He's recorded two albums with JJ Appleton, and Badkind is Jason's current band, having released two albums so far, and a new album coming out with Badkind at the end of the month, Behind the Veil. Jason has a big social media presence with Patreon, the place to go for his teaching material, with over 600 harmonica-related videos available. And Jason has just released a signature harmonica in partnership with Blue Moon Harmonicas. This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, you seem to be very innovative and you've got a great reputation. You know, do you feel that pushes you on, you know, to keep exploring, coming up with new things?

SPEAKER_02:

I also, I think actually to a degree, I've relaxed a little. Like I've, there's, I have very little ambition now. in terms of career these days. I have a drive that is motivated by getting the music heard in a really organic way and also financially supporting the band members. That's the primary motivation. But in terms of solidifying my reputation as a harmonica player, I think I've I've sort of stopped worrying about that. I've stopped thinking about, like, will Howard hear this recording? Or what is Kim Wilson going to think if I play this, you know, too many notes? I really don't care anymore. I just want to make good music. So I think that, you know, like when we get into, if I was to jump ahead to the record I just did with Joe Crown.¶¶ i think that's really the very beginning of really listening to me going like you know i'm not trying to show off anymore right i'm just trying to play music and if there's elements of it that are show-offy that's great i think that's good so I think as musicians, we should explore that area of virtuosity or an attempt at it anyway, or just being good on our instrument, right? And making it fun. I mean, when a painter paints something very realistically, we don't say, well, that's too many lines, too many pixels, you know? We don't say, well, that's too many lines, too many pixels. We just look at it and go, oh, wow, that looks just like a photograph. You know, I still have that in me, but I'm less concerned with trying to make an impression on the music world or get my name out there. It's something that I think is motivated The underlying theme is an area of spiritual growth being the primary focus and an underlying belief that if that is in place, everything

SPEAKER_00:

else will work out. So as you mentioned the album, let's touch on that one, then we'll jump back in time again. So you've done this album in 2021 with Joe Crown, it's called City Country City. So he's a Hammond organ player, right? And it's a trio, you've got a drummer. Yeah, yeah. Really interesting album. So you live in New Orleans so it's kind of new orleans bass it's jazz and funk and blues lots of instrumentals and

SPEAKER_02:

yeah yeah it's very new orleans sounding very yeah

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and it did really well yeah it was in the in the top 10 of the blues albums for for some time

SPEAKER_02:

i was really pleased with it and i'm very grateful to the guitarist michael zito mike zito who owns a record label for taking a chance on a harmonica lead organ trio. What a nutcase, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No, fantastic. Yeah. And the, and the song city country city, the, the, the title. Yeah. That's a war song, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And what a beautiful one.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a great album. Any more coming out with your crown?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, God, I hope so. I really do. Joe and I had a disagreement over a booking situation with an agency. And the industry kind of got in the way of our relationship. And I hope that's temporary. Because I was talking before about father figures and big brothers and male role models. And Joe certainly is that. So I'm sort of in a place of mourning right now. I'm kind of reaching out to him and trying to make things better. And that's not because It's, it's stuff, you know, that, well, I mean, maybe a couple things I said, actually, you know, but I've apologized and, you know, but, you know, stuff happens in our industry and people make decisions and. that other people don't agree with and mistakes and you know there's financial incentive involved and money and you know and and clout and all these different things and sometimes uh relationships that should never end get interrupted or or ended and it's tragic but i certainly hope that joe and i get to do another another album i did get him to play on my record

SPEAKER_00:

well it's again really interesting in a different direction you know for you and the music and the use of the harmonica so it is great to hear definitely recommend people to check it It's a really interesting album, yeah. Thank you, Neil. So we'll jump back then. So after... think you formed bad kind in uh in what year was it around 2011 exactly So where were you based at this stage?

SPEAKER_02:

I was still serving out a probation sentence in Indiana. So I was not allowed to leave Indiana, but I was eventually allowed to tour out of Indiana. So I could leave if I had a job, but I couldn't live anywhere else. And I couldn't return to New Orleans. So the bad kind started driving up from New Orleans and picking me up. And then we would go out tour. Eventually I moved back here after I finished my probation and we started touring and living here in New Orleans.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So I think you've had, is it two albums out with a bad kind now you've had approved by snakes um and then uh my chops were rolling right and then now the third is coming out september the 29th yeah sure yeah then the third one's come out yeah so so your first one with them was approved by snakes yeah

SPEAKER_02:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

really dark album yeah really dark album i i almost can't listen to it really so broken toy is a good example of that you got these kind of tortured i guess autobiographical lyrics on this song yeah

SPEAKER_02:

yeah Yeah, those are heavy-duty lyrics. I think they're channeled. I wrote them in about a minute and a half, the entire song.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Listen

SPEAKER_00:

here. There's another one on there. She's got, you know, you do a lot of kind of big, long-ranging kind of songs. They're quite like epic sort of eight-minute songs, aren't they? Lots of really long solos by Ewan Harmonica and the guitarist and obviously the other instrumentalist. So how do you approach playing these kind of really long solos and maintaining the interest when you're doing that?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, shucks, I don't know if I do. I think what we're trying to capture is the nights when that does happen. And trying to get that in the studio isn't always easy. But I think I've always been somebody that's maybe a little too brave, a little too ambitious musically. And I'm always going after that. So I don't know. Every now and then, I think we get it. And I would say more often than not, I think I fail.

SPEAKER_00:

You've released at least one live album with New Blood, maybe two, I think, isn't it? And so is it that, like you say, you're trying to capture that live sound? Oh, we haven't

SPEAKER_02:

actually made a live album with New Blood. I mean, with New Blood, there was one that a fan, Gary Hodgson, made called Down That Road. Yeah. Which was a collection of various live recordings that he... Yeah. Live at Checkers Tavern as well. Oh, that's true. I forgot about that one because it was stolen from us by the record label. Right. Yeah. Yeah. You've blanked that one out.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, like you're saying, you're trying to sort of emulate that kind of live show in the studio, as you say, for these long-ranging songs.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I've never been a big overdubber. I philosophically don't believe in crafting the perfect solo. I'm struggling to think of a single solo that I've written. Ever. Everything that you hear out of me for better or for worse is completely improvised. I have never written a solo out and played it the same way ever. So I try to do that. I believe that's how this music is supposed to be played. And I think that whether it comes out good or not, it doesn't matter. If it comes out bad, that means you need to practice more.

SPEAKER_00:

And on that note, it's something, again, I've read about. Obviously, you're trying to push it and not sound the same, not have habits. I think we all feel that, right? Yeah, we all feel that we play the same things, you know, because that's kind of your style in a way, right? But, you know, what do you do to try and break out of that?

SPEAKER_02:

A lot of scales and arpeggios. That stuff forces you to not play the same notes. And, you know, you got to make a decision at the beginning of the song. I'm just going to listen to the first note I play and then decide what the next one is. sometimes my ego doesn't allow me to make that decision because I don't trust in God or whatever you want to call it, your higher self or the moment or whatever. And then I, I end up playing some bullshit or some Pat Ramsey stuff, you know, with some Jason sprinkles influence from 30 years ago, you know? So I try to just be in the moment. I think I did a very good job on city country city of, of, playing in the moment on some of it anyway yeah If you can't tell, I'm pretty hard on myself. But it's not in a bad way. Believe it or not, it's not self-deprecating because I'm just as likely to tell you when I think something is exquisite that I've done.

SPEAKER_00:

Would you care to share what you think is your best work then?

SPEAKER_02:

You called me on it. I think the solo on Loving Eyes off of Rocket No. 9, I think it's next level.

UNKNOWN:

Music

SPEAKER_05:

The

SPEAKER_02:

playing on Enlightenment, the Sun Ra song off Done With The Devil.

UNKNOWN:

Oh!

SPEAKER_02:

as well as the solo on Broken Toy. I'd say there's some work I've done with J.J. Appleton that's really good. I think the solo on the song Down and Dirty, the opening track of City Country City, I think that that rhythmically swings very, very hard.¦On the new record, there's a number of both, I think, vocally and harmonica playing wise that I think are very, very sincere and very heartfelt. And I think in the end, that's what really matters. And I'm trying to get more into that.

SPEAKER_00:

So what do you think, you know, what place were you in when you did these good performances? Do you think it, you know, it was improvising and it came out great? Was there something magic that happened to those recordings?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, that's a really good question, Neil. I'm really, I think maybe just, you know, like I said earlier, it's like a sense of abandonment. You know, it's like, have you ever had a dream that you're flying? And, you know, I do. Sometimes in my dream, I imagine like, oh, I'm not supposed to be able to fly. And then I start to fall. Or I want to show somebody that I can fly. And that's when I can't, right? Or I can barely do it. Like I can hover a little, but I can't fly anymore. And I think it's sort of that... It's that faith that you have to have. And I think that's why practice is so important, as I think it gives us confidence so that we can abandon everything that we've practiced and just sort of be in the moment. I think what we're all after in life, whether it's in music or in life, is a sense of freedom. of careless childlike exploration, the same way that a child goes up to a piano for the first time and pushes one of the keys on the piano and it makes a noise. And then that child, you know, learns that if they Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of people would, you know,

SPEAKER_00:

sort of describe you as being quite a technical player. Obviously you talked about playing scales and arpeggios. I mean, you know, how important is the, is the technique behind, you know, playing with soul? I

SPEAKER_02:

think it's everything. I

SPEAKER_00:

think

SPEAKER_02:

playing with soul, first of all, soul is very subjective. It depends a lot on a person's personal experiences. I think people that haven't had a lot of, this is just an example, exposure to Latin culture are going to have difficulty hearing soul and Latin music. Like for example, I used to get more defensive than I do now, but I I used to get really defensive over people that would criticize Howard Levy as being too technical because... I hear a lot of soul in Howard's playing, but I didn't always kneel. I had to move to Florida. I had to be around Brazilian people, Haitian people, Trinidad, Cuban, black, everything. I had to listen to a lot of bebop. I had to listen to that. And I had to have a lot of personal experiences in my life, both good and bad, for me able to hear that soul. So when somebody maybe critiques my playing and says, oh, well, this is all technique and it's no soul. I think there are times when that person is critiquing accurately. And I would certainly agree on some cases that it is very cerebral and flashy. But there are many times when people say that where it's simply not true at all. And that music is very heartfelt, very sincere. And the frequency or amount of notes should be no more significant than if I look at a rainforest and say, well, I find this rainforest beautiful. A rainforest is very busy. There are lots of ferns and plants and roots and trees and birds and insects. But then do I look at a desert and say, well, that desert is more beautiful because less is more. And there's not all those busy insects and rotten ferns around to clutter up everything, right? I mean, that's just life, right? Life is both sparse sometimes and melancholy and other times it's very elaborate and busy. And I'm in a very elaborate and busy cat in general. My thoughts, I have bipolar disorder. Is it a disorder? I don't even know. It's certainly something to be checked, but I'm expressing my personality authentically. And sometimes that personality is still. As I get older and wiser and more spiritually centered, I'm finding more stillness and more calmness. But my less is more is not cerebral. It is soulful. It comes from my heart because I've heard people play less notes cerebrally, like they're trying to be sparse on purpose, trying to play less notes to impress somebody. It's garbage. So it's completely subjective. And I think that the only thing that's not subjective is technique. And whether you like it or not, we can measure technique. You can't measure art. You can't say this is better because I like it better. No, you like it better because you like it better. Art is subjective. Soul is subjective. Okay. But technique is not subjective. I can listen to any instrument and if it's not played well, I can say, well, it's not played well. I can also say it's not played well, but I like it. Or it's not played well, and I don't like it. On top of the fact that it's not played well, I think it sucks, right? But that's just my opinion. But what is not open to debate is whether or not a note is in tune, whether or not a scale can be played, whether or not an arpeggio can be played, whether or not I can communicate in language with the musicians that I work with when I call myself somebody that has dedicated my life to music. Yeah, that is not open for debate.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I mean, I definitely think you do combine the technical with the soul, for sure. You know, there's many examples. You're playing a great fast lick and then go into a beautiful soul tone, you know, coming out of the harmonica. What about the tone on the harmonica? How have you worked at that?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know. I think, you know, initially, that's what everybody wants. the most, and certainly me. But amplification, and I think I play well through a vocal mic. I think that my sound is big enough. Dennis Grinling likes to say, you can never have too much tone. Right? But I don't know. I don't even actually know if I agree with that. I think you can focus too heavily on anything. You can focus too heavily on melody. You can focus too heavily on harmony. And you can focus too heavily on rhythm. And you can certainly focus too heavily on how something sounds like, okay, like put it this way. So if you have a harmonica player with great tone, but he doesn't have any chops, you're going to walk in and you're going to go, oh my God, this is incredible for about three songs. And then you're going to get here all the same licks over and over again. And you're going to get used to that tone, no matter how good it is, your ears will adjust and you're going to go, what's on TV. Let's get out of here. Let's go see another band. Conversely, if you walk into a club and you see a guy who has all the chops in the world, but his tone's not very good, you're going to go, oh, my God, this is amazing for about three songs the same amount of time. Right. So what you want is a preferably a little of both or a lot of both. Same thing with technique and soul. If a guy plays everything in the key of A and the minor pentatonic scale, it's going to be amazing for, you know, a certain number of songs before the audience starts to say that. Remember, I told you about the naivety and the beautiful nature of the listener that doesn't play music that they'll say, well, I don't know, you know, man, I really like it, but it all kind of sounds the same to me. And that's what happens when we don't learn how to express ourselves with different musical ideas. Musical ideas that are, in some cases, potentially 6,000 years old. Why wouldn't we learn things that are that old? I mean, certainly the major scale is at least 3,000 years old. Why wouldn't that be something you would learn and explore?

SPEAKER_00:

Definitely.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Something else I'm reading about you is that you've, you know, become quite obsessive. And I guess a lot of people get to a high level or, right. But, you know, you're obsessive in your learning and, you know, you mentioned bipolar. Do you think that's sort of influenced the way you play and how you developed your, your playing such a high level? Definitely.

SPEAKER_02:

Definitely. And I think I'm, One of the reasons that I haven't advanced further technique wise is because I'd spend so much time teaching now and doing things like this and booking gigs and paying bills and going to the grocery store. It's only very grown

SPEAKER_00:

up now, Jason.

SPEAKER_02:

Hey, Neil, you're a sweetheart. I love you. Yeah, man. I mean, like Jack D. Jeannette said, the great jazz drummer said, the music business ruined my job. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But I mean, your teaching's good. You're learning. We'll get into teaching later. Yeah. I'm being

SPEAKER_02:

silly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, a question, if you don't answer this, you don't want to, but obviously you're quite possibly the most successful harmonica player. You're talking about the business side of it now. How kind of a good a living have you managed to sort of make for yourself?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. No, I don't mind answering it all. I've always believed in full transparency. I am absolutely struggling week to Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. No matter what. And I have no health insurance. I have nothing. I'm pulling in a lot of money. I would say a lot of money. But the bills are astronomical between the van, the car insurance, all of the subscriptions. And I'm also a big Patreon supporter. I don't just collect money from Patreon. I also give out money. Every month, you know, I am supporting other artists as well. And and and the repairs on the van and the travel expenses. And I mean, there are tours that I do where YouTube and Patreon are the only income I'm going to make. The band is going to get paid, but I'm not. I'm not going to make anything. I have a manager now, an agent, and the more money you make, the more money you have going out. So it's like I was actually probably making more money a month because my overhead was lower in the earliest days of my performing than I am now. The more awards, the more you have to hire a publicist to make sure you get another award and all this other nonsense, right? So I'm barely staying alive. That being said, I live a life of 100% luxury other than having time to really enjoy the luxury. But I mean, I have an unbelievable cigar collection that would rival many millionaires. So I'm not rich. I'm irresponsible, Neil.

SPEAKER_00:

Good to hear you're spending your money sensibly there. this might be a good time to point out that you've got people can tip you on a PayPal link I'll put that on the podcast page oh my bro my bro I hope they tip you too but you know that's like you said the reality of all the costs you know it's kind of depressing that someone that you know you know the top harmonica player quite conceivably for some years now you know even now struggles yeah which is

SPEAKER_02:

I find it very depressing I mean any other industry right you know if like you know I'm like one of the top five most recognizable players, I think, in the world. I mean, certainly if you use Google as a reference point, right? Like, let's take my opinion out of it. I'm just telling you, like, Google the best harmonica players. I'm usually in the top 10, 15, right? Of all time, right? You know, that's just because of analytics and algorithms and all that kind of trash. But whatever. You know, if you were to Google the top 10 best bankers or accountants or lawyers or anything. Even probably ping pong players make more money than I do. It's absurd. But I knew what I was getting into. My father told me when I wanted to play harmonica, he goes... Get used to poverty, kid.

SPEAKER_00:

Would it have been different if you played the saxophone?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah, of course. But it would have been harder to rise to the top. Because conversely, the harmonica is an instrument that you only have to get kind of good on it to make a name for yourself. I don't know. I don't think what I do is really all that technical compared to what you guys think. When I listen to Howard, I feel like I'm in kindergarten and he He's the professor teaching grad school. I mean, that's literally what I feel like. You know, you know, and Philippe shares and Constantine Reinfeld and some of these other guys. I've just I'm very moved and blown away by what they're doing. Gregory Hammer now playing on rack and playing Charlie Parker on rack while playing guitar. Come on.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Incredible what some people are doing, isn't it? Yeah. And you mentioned Philip there. He's done great. He's just won Spa Player of the Year, hasn't he?

SPEAKER_02:

And rightfully so. Yes. I'm glad you interviewed him.

SPEAKER_00:

I have. Yeah, I have indeed. Yeah. He's a great guy and done some really great stuff. I love him so much.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. He's a darling, darling, wonderful, gentle, kind, nurturing person. And I hear all that in his music.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So let's get back a little bit to your recording career. You mentioned J.J. Appleton.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

This is where you're kind of doing your acoustic thing. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

and really playing it safe. Lots of tongue blocking, single note bends, a lot of tongue blocking, some very consistent rhythmic chugging, some nice interplay between vocals.

UNKNOWN:

I can't believe it's as good. I can't believe it's as good.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, leaving some spaces. It was sort of the album I made right around that time, sort of like the one with Joe, where I was kind of done trying to prove myself. I just wanted to make good music. That was it. Was this the second one, Beautiful Slop? I think the first one's better. Beautiful Slop Now what JJ's doing and singing and playing I think is wonderful on both records, but I think that I was less grounded as an individual and I think that's audible in the music.

SPEAKER_00:

And another thing you did, which is a really great honor, is you played at Paul Butterfield's induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. So you were the harmonica player at that concert. And I have discussed this before in a previous podcast episode, but you know, so what was that like? And I know Paul Butterfield was a big influence on you as well. I was honored to be part of that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I think some people were a little disappointed I got that gig. But I think Butterfield's pretty audible in my playing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And, you know, Pat was butter on steroids, I thought. I think it's also important to mention Mark Ford, him being an influence as well, particularly after Pat.

UNKNOWN:

But...

SPEAKER_02:

And tonally, I think Mark Ford was a huge influence on my amplified sound. You know, I think I liked that real compressed, overdriven... kind of sound. Now I think my sound is becoming less overdriven. It's almost like an amplifier. Even my amplified playing is starting to sound way more like a harmonica than a guitar on most tracks, I think. If you listen to my first record that I made using a 57 instead of a bullet mic, which was Feel Good Funk.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_05:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

I think you can hear that on everything that I've done. But I think a big part of getting more organic was getting rid of that kinder anti-feedback pedal. So I loved that pedal for many years, and I still would never fault anybody who loves it now. I think it's a great sounding pedal. But it kept me very distorted for a long time, and I'm glad it's gone now.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, a lot of people see that as the holy grail of the anti-feedback pedal. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

I used to too. I had three of them just in case, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

I think, are you at a stage now where you're quite diverse in what you're playing? You know, are you playing with J.J. Appleton? You've got obviously your main band, Bad Kind. You've got the Kroner album. You've got, you're playing with J.P. Soares. Are you now, you know, being able to sort of, you know, play in these different sort of outfits?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and then now, next week, it was supposed to be yesterday, but it got moved. Next week, I'm recording with a Mardi Gras Indian band. So that's like heavy-duty funk and jazz-influenced funk jazz. Native American, too, influenced music. Anyway, yeah, I think I'm becoming more of the guy that gets called for music, not blues. And I recently got to record with PJ Morton. for a new Disney movie that's heavily jazz and Zydeco influenced. And then I just recently was in Terrence Blanchard's soundtrack for the Tyler Perry movie called The Jazzman's Blues.¶¶ So I got to record with Terrence, which is probably my favorite thing that I ever got to do. Ever. Yeah. Excellent. Because he wrote Mo' Better Blues. He did all the music for Spike Lee. He's one of my favorite modern jazz composers. Recently, I got to play with Donald Harrison in Hawaii. And maybe someday down the line, John Batiste will need a harmonica for something, and maybe I'll get the call. I'm lucky. New Orleans tends to only hire people from here or people that have lived here a long time. So I'm finally starting to get those calls. And being a diatonic player that can play chromatically, I'm getting a lot of calls by default, right? Because there's nobody else that can do it. Because we have another wonderful harmonica player here named Johnny Sansom. And if anybody wants blues harmonica, Johnny's going to be the first call over me. Certainly. He's a more established player. But for stuff that has to be played a certain way, the saxophone and trumpet players, when somebody in the session says, oh, what do you think about adding maybe like a harmonica on this? Who do we call? All the horn players in New Orleans know. Oh, well, you have to call Jason because he's the only one who can play those notes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So

SPEAKER_02:

I get to call a lot

SPEAKER_00:

just out of default. So you're coming to session man. Now you're going to be rich yet, Jason.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know, man. I need to learn to read music like, but it's so hard to translate to diatonic, but yeah, I think I'm going to maybe hopefully take lessons with Winslow or somebody. I don't know. I've been, I had to send my music for Terrence to Winslow and then Winslow had to teach it to me. So I had to spend like$150 in order to do the session.

SPEAKER_00:

So, I mean, what about chromatic? I mean, I did see that you played some chromatic. Is that something you might delve into or you're purely diatonic, man?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm going to play one chromatic song on my next record. It's an old number. It's called Cutting With The Button, but I've rewritten it. And it has a new turnaround. It's very jazzy. It doesn't sound good on diatonic. There's some triad arpeggios that really don't sound good in any position. And that's where Howard and I sort of disagree. Howard believes this is a fully, or at least he used to I might have changed his mind, actually, on an experience that we had together. But anyway, he used to say that it's a fully chromatic instrument, whereas I will say it's an instrument that can play fully chromatically. But can you play a C harp well in E flat? And I think the answer is no, not where it sounds good. If anybody could do that, it would be Howard. And maybe he'll hear this and do a whole album in E flat on a C harp and change my mind. And that's more than possible because anything in the world is possible in the hands of that man. But I'm at a place right now where an E flat major triad sounds like garbage, no matter how hard I try on a C harp.

SPEAKER_00:

There's a lot of people I've talked to on here, you know, they use different tunings for particular songs or So there's different ways to approach it, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but see, the problem with that, Neil, is when you're talking about chromaticism, there's certain songs, jazz songs, that there's no tuning in the world that's going to get you through it. You got to be able to play all of the notes. And when you tune a harmonica, you make one thing easier and now you've made another thing harder. But chromatic harmonica in general is an instrument that I don't think sounds very good in most people's hands. And of course, there's many exceptions to that. The ones that come to mind are Philippe, William Gallison, Bill Barrett, Hendrik Mierkens. I think Papa Rosie plays very beautifully But I'm talking about the heavy duty jazz cats, Gregoire. But most of them, I think it sounds very hissy. There's a hissing sound that I think is a result of those plastic wind savers. And the fact that it can't bend more than a microtone is no fun to me. The whole reason I got into this thing was to be able to go... And all the little micro tones in between. So like, you know, like on a three draw, you have... Three draw, three half step. And then three whole step. And then a step and a half. But in between those... And even on the blow bends, right? Like just even on a regular blow bend, There's spaces in between those. And I don't think you get to explore that as liberally on a chromatic. Yeah. Not too interested. I like the sound of the tongue-blocked octave, third position or first position. I like the blues-driven amplified chromatic sound a lot. Yeah. Like when Dennis plays chromatic, to me that's very exciting.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, so as you mentioned earlier on, you've got a new album coming out at the end of September. I think it's out on the 29th. It's called Behind the Veil. This is with Bad Kind. So yeah, more kind of traditional playing I'm hearing on this. Is that a deliberate approach you took?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I've just relaxed. I'm just playing what sounds good for the song. And I'm heavily moved by a radio show that is on WWOZ on Wednesday nights that plays a lot of 50s R&B. I'm also writing to the band. And so I Not just writing, but choosing songs based on the band. I have a new guitar player who is very, very capable of playing traditional music. My wife, I really enjoy the way she is singing some of that old stuff.

SPEAKER_03:

So

SPEAKER_02:

I'm wanting to record... and write and play music that is the best for the musicians that I have, rather than forcing the musicians to play stuff that they're not into. And right now they're not really into Softly as in a Morning Sunrise. So I may quote that on a number, but I'm not going to play that number until the band decides that's what they want to do too.

SPEAKER_00:

There's some great harmonica instrumentals on here too. There's also Shipwreck, which I think I'm listening to you thinking you sound quite a lot like Kim Wilson. Is that something you were aiming to do?

SPEAKER_02:

I think I was going for cotton. That's funny, but thanks.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's great. So that album is out at the end of September. So yeah, people can get it through by your website and other means. So let's talk about your extensive social media presence. So you've got lots of YouTube videos out there. You know, it's something obviously that's linked to all the teaching you're doing. You know, is that, you know, when did you get into that? And is it, you know, how much of an important part is this now to your kind of earnings and, you know, being a harmonica player?

SPEAKER_02:

I'd say it's 75% of my earnings come from YouTube, which the majority of the money I get through Patreon. So I'm asking Patreon patrons for a tip, essentially. I'm asking them for$1 a month. And most people contribute at that level. The promises that you will get two videos a month on Patreon that may or may not contain any harmonica content at all it's oftentimes me just talking about life and behind the scenes stuff and things that i'd really rather not discuss in public the belief is that if you're paying a dollar to come over and you're tipping me for four lessons a month that's which is every friday there's a new harmonica lesson no matter what i haven't missed a friday in five years the channel itself is 16 years old there's over 600 harmonica related videos on it now so the idea is you're just tipping me a dollar and there's no real promises but you get two extra videos and you already are giving me the dollar for the harmonica lesson so it shouldn't matter whether you like me or not but some people come there and then don't like me and I understand that too

SPEAKER_00:

So that's great. So I'll put the link onto your Patreon page as well. People can find that on the podcast page. Thank

SPEAKER_02:

you.

SPEAKER_00:

So obviously linking on and touching on your teaching. So, you know, you teach at Harmonica Camps and you mentioned Winslow earlier on. You do a Harmonica Collective Camp with Winslow you've done. And obviously you do Skype lessons and you do your videos and Patreon. And so teaching is, you know, it's really important. It's something you really enjoy doing as well. Is it not just paying the bills?

SPEAKER_02:

I do. I'm trying to get to the place where, really really bad though where i can take a break from teaching right now um you know with the pandemic it was like six hours a day almost yeah and uh now it's decreased to about four, three or four hours a day. But I

SPEAKER_00:

mean, that's the good thing about patron, right? You can make a video and then you don't have to do lots of one-on-one teaching. You may not get the same amount of income.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. But I do enjoy one-on-one contact. And the other thing I do too, that people might not know, and I'm not bragging, is I do a lot of scholarships. So at any time, I usually have three to four people that I'm teaching absolutely for free. So like right now I have a Ukrainian little gem of a kid who's worked And if somebody works hard and doesn't have the money, I will teach them for free. But it's at my convenience, and the lessons are only 30 minutes, and don't flood me with requests. But if you do, remember that you may have to ask 20 times before I say yes.

SPEAKER_00:

But you'll have to work very hard as well to earn the right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, even to get a lesson with me right now takes multiple, multiple emails and a very patient person. Yeah. I have to remind myself to be the same way when I'm pursuing clubs. Like, you know, our tendency is to send an email and expect an instant result. And that's not how the world works. Some people are busy. They don't hate you or they're not saying no just because they didn't respond. They might in their head say yes, but then forget and get really busy with something else. Recently, you appeared at the Spa 60th Anniversary Festival. Always an honor. My favorite organization.

UNKNOWN:

Music Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

And you've won various awards, Best Harmonica Player numerous times. You've won the Spa, Bernie Bray Harmonica Player of the Year in 2017. I

SPEAKER_02:

cried. I cried. And Michael and Winslow gave it to me. Having Winslow give it to me was Winslow's very, very special person and harmonica player.

SPEAKER_00:

So a question I ask each time, Jason, touching on the learning side, is if you had 10 minutes of practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing? Probably

SPEAKER_02:

arpeggios and just taking them out of sequence or like trying to go from the third to the 10th or the two to the nine or whatever it is, you know, avoiding

SPEAKER_00:

the root. Yeah, yeah. We'll get on now to the last section, talk about gear. And this could be a whole another two hours with you. I know, I'm such a nerd. You put lots of material out on gear. So people who want to follow up on any of your gear stuff, there's lots of videos available. And, you know, you talk about your pedals and all sorts. And I put a few links onto those, but let's talk about gear to some extent. So I believe early on you used to play, you used to, Yeah, I was Hohner, then Suzuki, then Hohner again.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. So we're hoping to have another batch or run before Christmas. I was assured that it would certainly be before Christmas. I think the second run will be even better than the first, but the first will always be the first. So those who bought the first ones will have something special. They will be distinguishable too. The new ones are going to have powder coated and then laser etched and then sealed covers, whereas the originals had hand painted covers. So you will be able to tell from the imperfections or what the Japanese call a wabi, what is something that is imperfect that makes it perfect. I think we made maybe 25 or 30 the first run in the world. But then the second run, I think we're expecting

SPEAKER_00:

60 will go out

SPEAKER_02:

before

SPEAKER_00:

Christmas. And have you been involved in sort of specifying how they're set up and all that kind of side of it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, like I wanted the phenolic resin comb, which is my favorite comb that Tom offers. Special 20 cover plates, which is what I play mostly. But this time I have good news. We're going to be featuring regular Marine Band DLCs. deluxe cover plates. So for those people that like the vented sound, and so do I, like when I play certain blues numbers, I will play intentionally. I will switch. I carry like one vented and one unvented harmonica of every key. So sometimes if I'm looking for a bluesier sound, a less compressed, less bass sound, I will go to the marine band cover plates because they make a big difference in sound. So the Black Corian comb, which will look really, really pretty and feel very comfortable to the lips. Also, it has a sort of different vibrational quality in your mouth than the phenolic resin does, which is more like wood. And the Corian is like a high density wood.

SPEAKER_00:

Are they set up for overblows? You know, the sort of how you would play them?

SPEAKER_02:

Some will be and some will be not. And they will be priced accordingly. So there will be more affordable versions that are made for people that don't need ones that are set up for overblowing, but all of them will be tuned to the immaculate detail that Tom Halcheck is capable of when he tunes these instruments. I'm hoping the whole run will be of more or less the crossover style tuning, like a modern compromise. So it's a little closer to equal temperament so that you can play in multiple positions. I've really gotten away from the Compromise Just, I ended up having to tune all of my five draws up because it was driving me crazy in third and 12th position.

SPEAKER_00:

You've got a great relationship with Tommy. I had him on the podcast recently. You played at his daughter's wedding. I listened to that one. You guys were a lot of fun. He's so funny. I love him. So how did you meet Tommy? Was it when you were down in Florida or was it after then?

SPEAKER_02:

I started soliciting him for free stuff and he wouldn't do it because of my reputation. And I don't blame him. At that time, I was less than a year out of prison. And I don't think he wanted to be affiliated with somebody like that. You know, over the years, I sort of proved for myself that I was not only going to be doing better, but I was going to use those experiences to help other people. And Tom, being a person that is interested in redemption, which he is, and through his own beliefs, was supportive of that. But it took some time of me kind of being around and being stable for that to happen. And then there were periods of time when I was unstable and he stuck with me again. He's been a very, very good friend and a very big supporter of me and my wife. I don't know what I would do without Tom. He makes all my harmonicas. He's gotten incredible as a customizer. I can't tell the difference between his work and the top customizers in the world at this point. There's subtle differences, I guess, but sometimes I can't even tell those.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'm very, very, very, very loyal. Yeah, no, he's a great guy. So yeah, so these runner harmonicas are going to be a limited edition, yeah? So people want to get in there when they come out. 60 or less. Yeah, 60 or less. So yeah, they'll be coming out at the end of the year, yeah? Next batch. Hopefully. Very soon. Not hopefully, they will be.

SPEAKER_02:

And they have cats on them. Yeah, and flying saucers.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, awesome. Ambition-wise, and you're playing a bit of both. Obviously, you mentioned you do tongue-blocking playing, but you're mainly a puckerer. Is that right?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't know anymore. It depends on who and what I'm playing with. So if I'm playing straight blues, I'm probably going to tongue-block nearly all of it, including even one blow and one draw a lot of times, especially if I'm on the way down from, say, I'm on a three-draw bend. And I'm tongue blocking, which is a lot. Like, you know, if I'm playing jazz or funk, I'm not tongue blocking anything besides octaves. Because I have to be so fast. And I have to be so accurate with the staccato on the bends. So there's no way you can tongue block that stuff. And anybody that says different, just please send me an audio of this. Right? Or... And when you send me an audio of you doing that tongue blocking, then we'll talk. All right. But until then, it sounds better and it's only, as far as I can tell, able to be produced lip person. However, when I'm playing regular blues or something slow, I'm more and more gravitating towards the tongue blocking option. I mentioned earlier that the JJ Appleton album is mostly tongue blocking. There's a ton of tongue blocking, even on the Joe Crown record. And so if I'm on my way down from three drop bend to one blow, I will end up on one blow tongue blocking the wood of the harmonica. Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, interesting though, for the, for the fastest stuff you're puckering. So yeah, that's a good approach for people who want to get a grip to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. There's certain things you can do tongue blocking. You just can't do lip pursing and vice versa. Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, sure. Yeah. Okay. And so talking then about gear, so you've got various endorsers for the gear that you offer, which is again, great to see, obviously. So you've got the harp gear amps. Are you still endorsing on using the HG50, which they don't make anymore, but yeah, you've got that one.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. But I have one of those. I actually, I have three of them. I have one in Europe and I have two here. I'm trying to sell, Tom Halcheck bought me the second one I have here in the United States And I'm trying to sell that one now to buy a twin because I really like the way that the twin sounds with the HG50. it better? And

SPEAKER_00:

it's not modified for harmonica. This is just off the shelf.

SPEAKER_02:

No, I don't even think that HG50 is really modified for harmonica. It's just a great guitar amp that sounds good for harmonica. We call it a harmonica amp. I don't get into all that modding for harmonica thing. That usually means, I'll quote Rick Estrin, modded for harmonica means sounds good in your living room. Sure.

SPEAKER_00:

And so you mentioned already that you play acoustic sort of mics, such as you've got your Lone Wolf signature, Jason Ritchie's signature mic through Lone Wolf. And you also, I think you play the Blows Me Away Ultimate 58, or you have done.

SPEAKER_02:

I designed that microphone, but I no longer

SPEAKER_00:

play it. Right. But you're playing these mics through Fender Bassman type amps, as you're saying, you know, the harp gear and the... Yeah. Because that's not something most people do, right? They would play a more acoustic mic through a sort of PA, say, wouldn't they, rather, from a tube Right.

SPEAKER_02:

I like the tonal. Look, what the advantage of the bullet is it distorts and it compresses on its own. So you don't need an outboard pedal to add extra distortion or compression. You have, I'm speaking metaphorically, a distortion pedal and a compression pedal built into the microphone, which is extremely useful because those are the two most important effects for harmonica. And then you plug that straight into the amp and it sounds great. The only problem is that's the only sound it can make. You're losing certain tonal qualities with that microphone

SPEAKER_00:

so the other thing obviously you're known for is playing with pedals you got various long wool pedals and you know you use like 11 pedals in your chain again there's a video people I'll put a link people go and listen to you talk all about your pedals so we don't need to cover that here but and you use effects quite a lot on some songs for a different sound yeah you're just trying to get that different sound different approach yeah

SPEAKER_02:

yeah I like Ottawa and then maybe the octave after that and then of course a long delay and a short conservative delay the the The pedal that's always changing is the other one. It's either a chorus or a rotary. A phaser is what's on there now. I have a phaser.

SPEAKER_00:

So thanks so much for the time today. It's been amazing to speak to you today, Jason Ritchie. Thank you. Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Thanks so much to Jason for joining me today. The podcast would not have been complete without him. Please support him by signing up to his Patreon page. The link is on the podcast page. We'll play out now with a song from his new album, Hip Hug Her.

UNKNOWN:

Hip Hug Her