Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Paddy Wells interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 96

Share episode

Paddy Wells joins me on episode 96.

Paddy is based in the north of England, where he started out as a singer playing a little harp before hearing amplified harmonica, which really turned him on to the instrument.

Paddy is also a freelance music journalist, having written regular articles for several music magazines in the UK, including Blues in Britain. He also wrote an article, Blowin’ Off The Dust, for the SPAH magazine. 

Paddy has also spent some time travelling the US, including sitting in with Jason Ricci, and writing two magazine articles on him.

Paddy has played in various bands in the north of England, appearing at festivals and supporting some notable names. His current band is called Dust Radio.


Links:
Paddy’s website:
https://www.paddywells.com/

Dust Radio music:
https://dustradio1.bandcamp.com/music

Music:
https://www.paddywells.com/music

Paddy’s article: Blowing Off the Dust:  Modern Masters of the Blues Harp:
https://www.modernbluesharmonica.com/modern-blues-harp-masters.html


Videos:

Lyndon Anderson:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26yIoZVYuVA

Interview with Paddy on the Tim Green Blues show:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yTEBIuKJGk

I’d Rather Go Blind with Poorboy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNH0Qs8GEeM

Problem and The Remedy video:
https://dustradio1.bandcamp.com/track/problem-remedy-2


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

or sign-up to a monthly subscription to the podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/995536/support

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram 

Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

Paddy Wells joins me on episode 96. Paddy is based in the north of England, where he started out as a singer playing a little harp before hearing amplified harmonica, which really turned him on to the instrument. Paddy is also a freelance music journalist, having written regular articles for several music magazines in the UK, including Blues in Britain. He also wrote an article blowing off the dust for the Spa magazine. Paddy has also spent some time travelling in the US, including sitting in with Jason Ritchie and writing two magazine articles on him. Paddy has played in various bands in the north of England, appearing at festivals and supporting some notable names. His current band is called Dust Radio. This podcast is sponsored by Zeidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world... at www.zidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidel Harmonicas. Hello Paddy Wells and welcome to the podcast. Hi Neil, thanks for having me along. You're originally from Leeds, is that right?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm originally from Hull, but I've not lived there for a long time. I spent quite a bit of time in Leeds and now I'm currently in Hebden Bridge.

SPEAKER_00:

In the north of England, so...

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, true northern air.

SPEAKER_00:

Like myself, although you're of course from the wrong side of the Pennines.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, so they say.

SPEAKER_00:

So what got you into playing the harmonica?

SPEAKER_03:

Like a lot of players, it was just something, the sound just grabbed me quite early on. I sort of chanced upon some blues records from my dad's collection when I was pretty young, and specifically BB King in London, which is still my favourite BB King album actually, and that's just got a couple of bits of harp on it.

SPEAKER_00:

Was that the first harmonica you heard?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, some of the first harp, certainly on record. There's a couple of little passages, one from a guy called Duster Bennett on Caledonia, I think, and another little passage by Steve Marriott on Alexis Boogie. Both of those tracks, the harp parts kind of leapt out at me as a sound that I just, I don't know, it was like nothing else.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you don't hear a lot of harmonica on BB King songs generally, do you? So he was just having a guest band with him as he toured over here, was he?

SPEAKER_03:

That's right, yeah. He kind of assembled, it's quite a roll call of famous people actually on that album. But the passages weren't, particularly in the case of the Steve Marriott part, it's not even that complex. It's quite simple, but it just leaps out. I think it's like the placement of the harp as well. It just suddenly leaps out and I just thought it was a fantastic sound. was interesting the sound that I was hearing on the record there in terms of harmonica but then I kind of this would in a similar sort of time period when I was maybe 14 15 kind of had a bit of an epiphany when I first encountered it live at least proper blues heart this is at home in when I was in Hull and one of the local rugby clubs used to put on an annual kind of little a little fate almost, a little kind of, you know, with stalls and a bit of live music and that kind of thing. They had a band on playing, and I remember the band were called Sliding Dog, and they were just a bunch of local guys, you know, playing kind of R&B, a bit of a mixture of stuff, but, you know, kind of older music. And the singer at first was playing some saxophone, and that was sounding cold to me. And then after that, he kind of just produced this microphone that he held in his hand, and started playing Amped Harp, which was the first time I kind of heard that coming at me. That was the moment when I kind of went, I want to make that noise. I have to make that noise. That sounds amazing. Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

I like us all on here. Grabbed us at that early age. What age were you when you first started playing them?

SPEAKER_03:

Around that kind of time, really. I kind of picked it up from, I would say, 15-ish, when I bought one and started trying to play.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it seems the same. That's the same time I started playing. It's quite a common time.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, formative age, I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So you're a singer as well as a harmonica player, so you definitely do both. Did you do that from the beginning?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I was thinking about this, actually, because... At first, there were kind of two periods of harmonica playing for me that were sort of distinct. I was possibly more interested in being a singer from when I first started playing in bands, 18 onwards. And harmonica was something, I could always get a nice bluesy line out of it quite early on. But it was that thing that a lot of singers do, that they just kind of, they use it just now and then. You know, like a lot of the rock guys do, like, you know, Robert Plant and Jagger and people like that. You know, it's kind of something that just comes out now and then. And that was how it continued with me for quite a while. Harmonica was just like, I won't say a prop, but it wasn't, it was not like the main thing for me. And then later on, I had another kind of slightly, I think it was a bit of a revelation about 20 years ago when I got hold of a Roland tube amp. I'd messed about with an amp before then, just like a little solid state thing, but never really got hooked with that. But I got this tube amp, plugged a mic into that, and that was another instance when I just kind of went, whoa, that's what it's supposed to sound like, that nice warm tube breakup. I think from that point, all of my proper learning and development and the decision to sort of take it seriously as an instrument in its own right was from then. So I think in the last 20 years, that's when I've really worked at it a lot. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So when you were singing initially, were you singing in blues bands or was it more pop stuff?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it was kind of, yeah. We were always doing, even from the outset, it was quite bluesy stuff that I was attracted to. And we would do it in bands, you know, anything from kind of like, or bluesy rock stuff as well. Anything from early ZZ Top to, you know, Hendrix and Stones and things like that. It was always that kind of thing. right from right from the off really

SPEAKER_00:

so to give people a flavor of what it's like the music scene was like in the uk then we talked to a lot of people in the us and most of them were in kind of high school bands you know they had that kind of good high school sort of music scene which i don't think we have in the uk right so how did you first start getting playing in bands it

SPEAKER_03:

was pretty much when i'd started sixth form college and i just met a You get to know more people. You go out and start playing in the pubs and things like that. So you get to know the network of musicians in the city then. And it just kind of went from there. I kind of played ever since that, really.

SPEAKER_00:

And so, as you say, you started getting more seriously into learning the harp. So how did you approach that? What sort of things were you doing? I think just

SPEAKER_03:

absorbing it and realising how it was supposed to sound when it was played well. Started getting into more records like Sonny Boy Williamson and Little Walter, obviously The Usual Suspects and all of those guys. And just kind of starting to emulate that, recognising that tone was... was really important and those kind of fundamentals, I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So how did you develop your tone?

SPEAKER_03:

It was a case of just playing to records then. Like I'm sure many people have said on this podcast before, like there was no YouTube. So like you put the needle back and you just kept practicing the passages that you liked on the record and just trying to make it sound in a sense of tone. It's just as simple as... trying to make it sound like what you were hearing. But tone to me is like everything, I think. I think it's the most important thing. I'd much rather hear a player playing relatively simple stuff, but with really good tone, than I would going all over the place, but doesn't sound like he's worked his tone enough. That to me is just not as interesting. So I do think that's the most important component of it for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. I mean, I think you can hear a harmonica player and probably many other instruments where as soon as you hear one note, you sort of know whether the tone's there, right? Yeah. It's so key. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, did you learn any other instruments when you were young? Any sort of formal music lessons, anything like that?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I never did any kind of lessons, no, for anything. I've kind of dabbled with guitar, acoustic guitar, you know, and string a few chords together, but that never really grabbed me either. It was the harmonica that kind of grabbed me right right from the start, and that's where all my effort's gone.

SPEAKER_00:

You didn't have any singing lessons either, right? You were just sort of singing instinctively and...

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, singing was something I just seemed to be able to do without much thought, really. I didn't take any lessons or anything for that. It was just, yeah, I was just able to kind of make that work.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and what do you feel about, you know, singing is a common theme on here, being kind of half of good harmonica players sing and half don't. So what do you think about singing? You know, the fact that you felt you could do it to begin with, do you think it's a natural thing? talent or you know what's your thoughts

SPEAKER_03:

i think it was just you know that was just another another case of like well i can hear what it's supposed to sound like if you're singing kind of blues or bluesy rock or anything like that so i just kind of i don't know maybe it's the uh the confidence of youth something like that you know i just thought yeah i can do that and that just seemed i didn't i didn't seem to have to think about that too much And I still don't to an extent. It's still not something... I don't approach it very technically at all, singing. I'm not somebody that kind of has to do a ton of warm-ups or stuff. I mean, I probably should in theory, but I don't kind of do that sort of stuff. And yeah, I think as an art player, it's just good. It's just good to be able to sing because if you don't sing at all, then you're probably looking at fewer gigs. It's definitely a good string to have to your bow.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. It allows you to be the band leader as well, doesn't it? That's a really critical thing, yeah. Okay, so as well as playing and getting through more of your career, so you're also a freelance music journalist. Yes, yeah. What's that involve? When did you get started doing that? Is this all part of you being in bands when you were young?

SPEAKER_03:

Not so much from me starting playing. From a young age, I'd always kind of... fervently consumed the music press from Kerrang! you know about the first issue of Kerrang! that was like 1980 I think and then kind of Q magazine and onto things like Uncut later on and I always kind of consumed those magazines and I've always had an interest in writing anyway You know, that's kind of what I was good at at school. So I just thought I'd like to get into actually writing for these magazines and do it myself. And eventually I just got in touch with the right people and started to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00:

So was this something you're doing as a job or more as a sideline?

SPEAKER_03:

Both, really. I started off doing quite a lot for the Blues magazine, the now defunct Blues magazine. When that started, I wrote for every issue of that. And it kind of spread a little bit out from there up. Like I was saying about getting in with a network of people earlier on, it's a similar thing. Once you're in, then a lot of people are writing for several different titles. It kind of spreads out a little bit then. And that enabled me to be doing... quite a bit of it do i'm actually doing less of it now and that's that's primarily because lots of the print titles have closed it's like a dying industry really so um there are fewer titles to go at at least if you want to get paid there's plenty of stuff to do which won't pay you

SPEAKER_00:

yeah like so much these days it seems to be more and more isn't it used to get paid for stuff now you don't know yeah absolutely you've written about different genres you know rock country blues right but you were writing for the blues magazine is that one of the strings to your bow, what you were writing for, and you were covering different genres?

SPEAKER_03:

I tend to only, or I try to write for the stuff that interests me personally. So that would include, of course, the blues stuff. But I also, in any kind of roots music, I'm comfortable writing about Country Magazine, which is also now folded, was really good. So I did quite a bit of interviews and some feature work for them. And rock magazines, of course, because I was a rock music fan. So I've done stuff for Classic Rock and Planet Rock when they had a magazine and titles like that. I've done quite a bit of rock music stuff as well. But I see

SPEAKER_00:

that as all sort of interchangeable. And so this involved you going to lots of gigs, writing reviews on gigs, interviewing the band members, that sort of thing? Yeah, all of that, yeah. How do you feel that informed your own music development?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not sure, really. I mean, I was kind of doing it alongside anyway. I was already an active musician then, which I think helped in getting me started, because I kind of was coming at it from both sides, I suppose. I knew the language of how these magazines wanted to present it, and I I was also a musician myself, so I kind of knew how to write about it and what was the kind of things that people wanted to hear.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so you also write, I think, CD reviews. I've done a ton of reviews, yeah, countless reviews for albums,

SPEAKER_03:

yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I think all that's got to rub off, hasn't it, to some extent? You know, you're reviewing albums, you're thinking about what works, you're kind of analysing songs. I think that's got to seep through, hasn't it, to come through in your own music. Yeah, it probably does, yeah, yeah. I mean, so obviously you said you like writing as well. And so you write some of your own lyrics to your blues songs that you perform.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, especially now, the current stuff, which we'll probably get onto, the Dust Radio stuff, that's all original material. And it's really the first time that it's been a band. I mean, that's not to say we don't do some cover stuff in the live set as well, but the records we put out, it's all... our own compositions, you

SPEAKER_02:

know, so, yeah. And

SPEAKER_00:

what about the promotion side, you know, with what you, again, you've learned from magazines and reviews and all that sort of thing. Is that something you think you've, you've learned and been able to use?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I've got some good contacts. I mean, that's why I'm able to do most of the, or a lot of the PR myself, because I kind of know the right people to send it out to now, or some of them. I'm not saying, you know, it's always good to have more, of course, but the contacts that I've made from writing have enabled me to get my own stuff covered, definitely. So that has been an advantage, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, definitely get some publicity. You know, and that's important, right? I mean, how do you think things have changed now about people publicizing themselves? You know, as you said, the magazines are dying off, right? But they've still got online presence. Obviously, it's all online these days. So what do you think about the scene from that perspective and, you know, what people should do? In terms of what people should do, I

SPEAKER_03:

don't know. I think it's a constant struggle, I think, promoting yourself. And you just have to be constantly present. And I'm not actually naturally inclined to be like that. I'm not the sort of person that can constantly be chucking stuff out there and making videos. It's just not my personality. So I don't really have any Solid advice for that. I think you just need to be visible, I think, and present. But to what extent, I think. Some people are much better at just being there all the time. I don't find that. That's not too natural for me.

SPEAKER_00:

And what about the kind of music press... in you know in general about the magazines folding and same with newspapers right you know they just do not sell like they used to do and people just read stuff on their phone and it's largely unpaid so maybe you know the quality of writing is going to be lower in some cases because we haven't got kind of professional people doing it so definitely definitely is in some areas yeah what's the view on on that side

SPEAKER_03:

yeah i mean i think it's this is where we are isn't it but i do think it's i do think it's a shame i think i think you we've lost something through there being fewer magazines, there was just something about it. It was always kind of exciting to me, like getting the latest issue of something, and that's where you got your information from, and having that kind of tangible thing. I used to love that. that's just not how people consume anymore is it

SPEAKER_00:

it's like a definitive source wasn't it it's like yeah it might have been much less of it but it was kind of like yeah there was like five choices and they were the ones you know whereas now there's like a million choices right and it's um

SPEAKER_03:

yeah i mean and that was where like that was where i would see things like glastonbury advertised before like it seems unimaginable now but like glastonbury used to just be some ads in the back of a magazine you know and you could i'm going to sort of i'm talking about early 90s something like that you know you can you'd still go and walk into a record shop and buy a Glastonbury ticket kind of like two weeks after they went on sale. And that was just from ads in the back of a magazine, because not that many people knew about it, or it wasn't nowhere near as widespread now. And like you mentioned, I think the quality of some of the magazines that are predominantly used in volunteers, sometimes the writing can be reflected in that, I think, too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and that's fair enough, right? It's not the full-time job, right? And they're often just doing it in the evenings, you know, they're not doing it full-time through the day. Yeah, of course. Completely understandable, isn't it? But yeah, I mean, it's going to impact, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. They're not getting paid for it as well, right? Yeah. but yeah, we're in a world of self promotion and the internet these days. And like you say, that's the way it is. And, um, we're fighting for attention. Yeah. So, um, obviously, you know, you've looked at different genres and I've seen, you've got some articles on your website, which I'll link to Nick Curran and Steve Earl. And so again, not just blues guys, you know, different genres. So an article, uh, which is, um, which you wrote for a spa magazine, it's, uh, I believe in the autumn or, uh, fall, as they say in the U S and in 2016 is, uh, an article called Blowing Off the Dust. And this is all about, you know, how the harmonica needs to keep relevant and people need to have a new voice, you know, a unique voice and not just kind of, you know, copy the greats. So, yeah, tell us about this article.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that was the premise of the article and it was a really good one to write because it was, like you say, it was just about the instrument being kept kind of relevant and moving on while still honouring tradition. So I got to speak to lots of players that were suitable for that kind of for that kind of article you know so it was it was a good one to do yeah

SPEAKER_00:

so yeah so that that article is available online as well i'll put a link on to that so people can read it so i mean what about the conclusion of that discussion about you know keeping the heart keeping the heart modern and relevant and you know having your own voice and what do you think i i sort of

SPEAKER_03:

broadly agree with that like for me the most interesting players or some of the most interesting players are the guys that I can... I know that that traditional stuff is in there because I can hear it. I can hear the foundation of that. But they're kind of pushing on and forging their own sound. They're kind of the most interesting players to me, some of whom are in the article, actually. There are many, many guys just emulating Little Walter down to every little nuance. And that's great. That's... but it's less interesting to me than the guys that are doing that sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

As part of this article, you list what you see as 20 essential harmonica songs, which is music to my ears. It's one of the reasons I started this podcast. I was always on this search for the kind of best harmonica songs, and then it's in my collection. So I see you listing the 20 essential harmonica songs. So that's really interesting. That's at the end of me just picking a couple out. I know you like Mitch Cashmore and a song by him called Nickels and Dimes.

SPEAKER_01:

So

SPEAKER_03:

what about Mitch? Yeah, I mean, he kind of embodies what I was just talking about, actually. In Mitch's playing, you absolutely know that he's grounded in that traditional stuff because he wouldn't be able to play... to that sort of level otherwise. But, like, what he's doing is totally his thing. And, like, I would know it was him in 30 seconds, you know, which is often the mark of the best players, isn't it? But, yeah, he's a really good example of that, I think. I just think he's a fantastic player. Very

SPEAKER_00:

unique. You mentioned Lyndon Anderson, who's a UK player.

UNKNOWN:

MUSIC PLAYS

SPEAKER_03:

Lyndon, for me, is one of the best players in the UK. And he is underrepresented, I think. Also, by his own admission, he's not a great self-publicist. He doesn't really, you didn't always see his stuff coming up. But he is a fantastic player. And he has that same thing going on of like, in some ways, it's a little bit similar to Jason, what he does. I think he's a really good player, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you've got a Paul DeLay song on there. We've talked about Paul DeLay on here quite a few times. You've also spent quite a lot of time travelling around the US and this part of your career your research into writing and meeting some of the players and doing some of the interviews. So yeah, tell us about your travels to the US.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I've kind of, I've had a few trips out there, but predominantly in New Orleans, I guess, is where I spent the most time. And that has allowed me access to some fantastic musicians and did some writing for Offbeat magazine while I was there, which is kind of the city of music magazine. So yeah, lots of great stuff came out of those travels, both, you know, musically and writing much, really, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you spent some time with Jason Ritchie in New Orleans. You did an interview with him for Blues in Britain magazine as a result of going there, yeah?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I've done a couple, I think, now with Jason. Yeah, Jason's a friend now. I've met him a lot of times now, and I've done... Yeah, the last interview... I think it was one of his favourite music sports in the city for Blues in Britain. So that was good. We got to hang out and just go to lots of these places and talk about why Jason liked him and things like that. He's always a great interviewee. He's never short of stuff to say.

SPEAKER_00:

And did you perform with him on stage, sir, in the stand?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I sat in with his band. That's when he had the bad kind together. I sat in with them at Cheeky Wawa in New Orleans. I got to sit in with a few people, actually, which is great.

SPEAKER_00:

I do notice on one of your songs from your Dis Radio album, which we'll get onto shortly, South of Nowhere, you play a lick which is, I think, pretty reminiscent of Jason's style.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So is that something you deliberately worked on Jason Lick, you think that came out? Not really for that, no. That

SPEAKER_03:

was just, I don't know where I kind of heard something like that. I mean, maybe that's just wandered in subconsciously. I mean, that's how it happens, isn't it? I didn't really have the idea to learn a lick per se. That's just kind of how that happened. How that solo came out for that song.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So, yeah, you did some other gigging and moving around the US then, did you? And got to play out there quite a bit?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Like I said, I played in Clarksdale as well, sat in with some people at Red's. juke joint in Clarksdale which is one of the last remaining sort of genuine juke joints so that was a real bucket list thing to play in there and Ground Zero Blues Club as well which is Morgan Freeman's club and I've done a little bit of playing in Austin as well so some of the spots that are great for blues playing I've managed to wangle myself in somehow.

SPEAKER_00:

Great stuff yeah so people do that quite a lot you know they go across to these places like you say go to these clubs get to sit in you know is that something you think has helped your music as well your harmonica playing

SPEAKER_03:

yeah definitely you're going back to the source aren't you so that's why it's so good so you can sort of you can kind of feel it in places like that that's why it's good to good to just absorb it and if you get a chance to play that's all the better

SPEAKER_00:

and as a British person you're well received on the harmonica over there

SPEAKER_03:

yeah as long as you are nice to everyone then mostly they'll be nice back is my experience

SPEAKER_00:

yeah great yeah so let's get on to your recording career we're going back so you said you started playing in bands around 18 and singing and picking up the heart a little bit later so the first band I've got you down is with Poor Boy which is a Leeds based Chicago blues band so is that one of your main your first kind of main blues bands after a few earlier attempts

SPEAKER_03:

yeah it was really I just I had just moved to Leeds and I decided that when I got the What I wanted to do was put together kind of a pretty classic blues band and wanted to play some of that and get stuck into some of that more Chicago-y stuff. I got that off the ground. fairly quickly that was back when like you still put adverts up in music shops on a bit of paper and pinned them to the wall looking looking for guitarists baseball etc etc that's how i found that band mainly through like just the old school way of advertising

SPEAKER_00:

you know the music shops are closing as well these days i know

SPEAKER_03:

yeah yeah

SPEAKER_00:

that's another thing is it going to stop And how was the blues scene, or at least the blues band, received in Leeds and surrounding areas?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, pretty good. I mean, there is stuff to go at around there in the north, some of the places that are still going now. So we managed to get gigging pretty quickly. And we used to do, you know, we would start up on the festivals and stuff. That's when I first started playing Kong, which I'm still playing. And we'd go to Dundee. That festival doesn't exist in the same way anymore, the Dundee Blues Festival. We used to go up there every year. That was a really good one. Mary Port Blues Festival, that also doesn't exist now. So, yeah, we used to get around, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And how did you get your foot in the door at the festivals?

SPEAKER_03:

Again, just finding out who the person was and some tenacity, I think. Just keep plugging away until they say yes or no.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Doing demos and things like that and sending them off. And so you supported some, you know, some big action. You supported Morganfield, I believe? Yeah, a couple of times, yeah. Is that when he was touring up north?

SPEAKER_03:

He was, I think we did, we supported him once in Keithley and then again in York. So that was really good to do, yeah, because, you know, we got to support an act like that and then when we'd finished we went to get to enjoy the band as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, did he have Steve Weston playing when you were

SPEAKER_03:

supporting? He did have Steve, yeah, Steve's a friend of mine as well so yeah it's always good to hear Steve play yeah of course

SPEAKER_00:

yeah and also Paul Jones who's the you know player over here in the UK again

SPEAKER_03:

yeah yeah we supported when he's with the well it's the blues band isn't it So that was good. Yeah, we met Paul. And in fact, that's how I managed to get on. This is when he was still doing the Radio 2 Blues show that Gareth is doing now. And I was able to actually put a CD together. in his hand so i didn't have to go the route of like you know trying to send it to various people i just literally gave it to him and said you think you might play something off this you know so that worked because he did play as a few weeks later on

SPEAKER_00:

oh brilliant yeah so did that have any impact getting played on the blue sean radio too

SPEAKER_03:

it was just a good bit of publicity really you know for us so you definitely yeah if you can you know if you can say that that's that it's been on Radio 2, and it all helps, doesn't it? You know, it's all PR.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely, yeah. After that, you played with a few different sort of outfits. I've got Crosscut Saw. Was that one of your next bands, also a sort of blues band based around Yorkshire?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, I kind of already knew the guys in Crosscut while I was still doing Poor Boy. That's a long-running band. They've been on the go for, I don't know exactly how long, but a long time, you know, with some line-up changes along the way. But really well-respected band in Yorkshire in the north, and it's got that quite, it's quite a hard-edged sort of bit of a Mississippi vibe that they do. So I already knew them. What I enjoyed about that was I got a chance to be a sideman. I really like just being a sideman as a harp player.

UNKNOWN:

MUSIC PLAYS

SPEAKER_03:

sometimes a little bit of a reluctant frontman to an extent. I mean, I still do it, but I enjoy just as much being the guy at the side.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, takes some of the pressure off, doesn't

SPEAKER_03:

it? Yeah, and I think it's just a slightly different way of playing as well. You just get to... Decide where you're playing and you're not having to think about being the singer as well. And you just kind of like listening to the band. It's a really good discipline for just listening to the band, you know, when you're at the side.

SPEAKER_00:

When you do that, you know, as opposed to being, you know, the singer and harmonica player, does that help, you know, with the placement of the harmonica? What are you sort of thinking about what the singer wants from you when you're a sideman?

SPEAKER_03:

It's just serving the song, isn't it? I mean, it's just as important not to play. as the playing parts I think and I think that's I think that is a discipline that's it's really to the fore when you're playing as a sideman and not stepping on vocal lines and just interjecting As a harp player, even if you are a singer as well, front of the band, I think it's really good practice to have some time playing side man. It definitely helps with your playing, I think. You know, comping and just having that range of tools kind of available to you, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

And did I read right that you had two harmonicas in this band sometimes?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, because Alex, the front man, also plays harp. He also plays guitar and sings so that he just uses the harp occasionally. That gave us like, you know, there are a couple of songs where we would kind of like have them both going.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the kind of Julian Harmonica's thing always goes down well.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and like, you know, we could get a pretty big sound getting both of those going and that was fun to do as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Some other bands you play with, you play with a Dave Hanson band?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I've known Dave since first moving to Leeds as well. And he was like really pushing his album at the time. And so he just, that was one of those where he kind of just got me on to play because he could kind of hear that there was some heart would sound good on this particular track, you know. So I played on his album and did some live shows with him as well. So that was good fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and this song, there's a song called Joanna, which has got a video.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, it's quite a nice video to watch. What was that like, making a video?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it was good fun, actually. I think the kind of narrative part of the video had already been done, like the kind of story parts. But I think the cutaways are just what's playing live, as I remember it. That was just a day of like, yeah, mime into the track. And that all being cut in, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's easier to mime in a harmonica because you can't see your lips move. Yeah, exactly,

SPEAKER_03:

yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then another outfit, which you were, you know, a certain singer and harmonica player, is a welter.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, that was, in fact, I met Matt... when we did the video shoot for the track we were just talking about for Dave Hansen. So I met Matt there, Matt Baxter, who is a great Leeds-based musician. And this was kind of something we just put together. We said, should we just put a duo thing together that we can just pick up when it fits in with both of us? It was like a side project. So we just kind of got it together quite fairly quickly and said, we'll just do, you know, whenever we can just fit the odd gig in here and there, we'll just do that. You know, we did some live video recordings as well, which were good.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so your current act and your main act now is called Dust Radio. It's a duo, what you sometimes have a drummer with you as well.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it started life as a duo and we still sometimes gig as a duo, but it's kind of expanding. We're currently sort of defaulting to like a three-piece with a bass player as well. And we've just started playing some stuff with a drummer as well. So it might, as we move into next year, it might kind of solidify into a four-piece. That's where it is at the moment. But like we kind of, we can do it as a two, a three or a four, depending on the gig really.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's always good. And so you're playing what, this is kind of roots music, blues and... swamp and country and a bit of rock is it

SPEAKER_03:

i call it like a blues and roots band really so myself or tom who tom myself formed the band neither of us are um kind of purists really so it's kind of veering off slightly into other areas so it's always bluesy you know but i wouldn't call it a strict blues band

SPEAKER_00:

either so you got uh what was your first album called problem and remedy

SPEAKER_03:

uh there was an ep before that um called shotgun shack that was the first thing we put out so

SPEAKER_00:

What year did the EP come out?

SPEAKER_03:

Summer 21, I think. And that got a lot of really good response from the Blues Press and things like that. Planet Rock picked a couple of tracks up.

SPEAKER_00:

And where did you record this one?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, that one and the one we've just released, the album, it's all quite DIY. We've just done it in a couple of rehearsal spaces, recording ourselves. We've done the whole thing ourselves, apart from the mastering. Somebody did the mastering for us right at the end, but everything else we've done.

SPEAKER_00:

What about the setup for that?

SPEAKER_03:

It's just like a case of initially maybe getting in... into the rehearsal space and getting the foundation of something down live, you know, just maybe just to keep the groove, the guitar and maybe some of the harp and put the vocals on after that. Once that's down, then it's just a case of like, you know, any mixing and arranging is just then done. We can do that by bouncing files back and forth.

SPEAKER_00:

But you recorded the, you know, some of the tracks separately then that you say vocals are put on top. You didn't record it as a sort of live.

SPEAKER_03:

Not the whole thing. I mean, certainly the foundation bit is recorded live you know the original harp stuff might be like a scratch harp track same for the vocal anything that's and then I'll go back and kind of finesse that a bit

SPEAKER_00:

yeah very good and you're pleased with the result

SPEAKER_03:

yeah

SPEAKER_00:

so yeah so after this EP you released a

SPEAKER_03:

uh

SPEAKER_00:

A fuller album, which is called Problem and Remedy.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, we put that out somewhere over

SPEAKER_00:

this year. A lot of these songs were written by yourself. You wrote the lyrics as well.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, all with the exception of there's one cover of My Walk on Gilded Splinters by Dr John on there. Everything else is original compositions and I've written, yeah, I've done the lyrics. The same across the EP and the album.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and the problem and remedy lyrics is quite a catchy

SPEAKER_02:

line. There's a

SPEAKER_03:

little bit of

SPEAKER_02:

a...

SPEAKER_03:

not a theme, but a sort of vibe that has emerged lyrically over the records, which is mostly influenced by kind of writers like, I'm a big fan of like Raymond Carver and there's another writer called Willie Velorton. I don't know if you're familiar with the band that he used to have called Richmond Fontaine, which was an old country band where he writes novels as well, which are often about slightly desperate people on the edges, you know, Things like that. I mean, I've always loved his books, and that kind of stuff seems to be coming out lyrically for this particular project. Yeah, Problem and Remedy is a good example of that, I think, the track.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so again, a topic to talk about here quite a lot, but you know, you feel that writing... new lyrics you know trying to modernize the blues is uh something you want to do yeah

SPEAKER_03:

yeah definitely yeah i mean it's not you know uh someone like chris whitley i mean the band is named after what a chris whitley track actually dust radio he had that thing of his whole approach was he wanted to keep the the quite earthy sound and arrangements of blues music but but add it to it quite quite sort of evocative lyrics and imagery and i always really liked that I'm a big fan of his stuff, especially the Dirt Floor album. So it's kind of that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, how do you feel that original blues lyrics are received? Because, you know, my impression is that you go to... do gigs, quite a lot of people want to hear covers. They want to hear songs that they know. So by going away from blues songs, you know, that's obviously quite niche, but you know, there's certain blues songs that are known like Help Me and Hoochie Coochie Man, you know, the kind of big ones that everyone knows. But by going and writing original blues, you know, how do you generally feel you're getting, you know, the audiences reacting to those things?

SPEAKER_03:

So far, pretty good, because I think it's just as important, or at least it is for us doing the dust radio stuff is that it's got to be, it's still got to sound groovy and have, and have hooks. So it's got to, there's got to be a tune there. And if you have that, that's the first thing that people respond to, isn't it? If you can get their foot tapping, then you're on the right lines. And then you can sort of, you can sneak the other stuff in to an extent. Whereas if the music itself sounded a bit boring and lumpy, I don't think that would happen as easily.

SPEAKER_02:

MUSIC PLAYS so

SPEAKER_00:

when you're writing the lyrics do you do that you know by sort of strumming yourself and the guitar or singing or playing with your guitar player or um

SPEAKER_03:

it tends to be usually that tom will have the musical framework of something that he will then pass to me it kind of usually suggests like uh i'll see how it feels And I've always got stuff written down, scraps of phrases, little lyrical ideas and things like that. I've always got kind of notes. And then when I kind of... I'm listening to that and thinking, well, it feels like this might work for this lyric that I've got, you know, or part that I've got. And it's just built up from there, really. So it's usually music first, lyrics second.

SPEAKER_00:

What of the writing you're doing these days? I mean, obviously the magazines have died down a little. Are you still writing that sort of stuff? Is the lyrics your main outlet these days? I'm still keeping my hand in with music stuff, but

SPEAKER_03:

mainly... yeah i'm kind of focusing on the music stuff we're still so we just put this album out but we're already kind of moving on to the the next ones

SPEAKER_00:

A question to ask each time then, Paddy, is if you had 10 minutes of practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

SPEAKER_03:

I'd like to say that I'd be mega-focused and practice scales for 10 minutes and then position work. I make myself sometimes, but I tend to be... I will try and play in a few different positions and try and play things that are just... slightly different that's what tends to happen really but you know what it's like sometimes you just you just pick it pick a harp up and 10 minutes you're just playing kind of what you feel like playing without trying to structure your practice that's how it is for me anyway

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so when you know you're working up a new song I mean you know do you have a sort of practice routine for that you know you were looking at you know bringing new ideas into a song and that sort of thing how do you approach that yeah I mean that's

SPEAKER_03:

another thing that I will use like recorded kind of audio notes for I'll always have a stack in fact I'm just going through some of these for the next song and that can come from a practice session if I'm just playing it and something comes out like a lick or a run or something I'm thinking right I'm keeping that and I'm going to use that and I'll kind of catalogue those just in my phone you know

SPEAKER_00:

yeah you've got a little catalogue of licks

SPEAKER_03:

saved up yeah and a lot of that makes it onto the records actually because I think right I'm definitely placing that somewhere and then it's a song develops, I think, well, yeah. So in the same way that I was talking about lyrics, they tend to get, they will get used.

SPEAKER_00:

So once you're doing that, I mean, obviously recording yourself is a, is a great tool to, you know, to listen, but is that something that you, that you, you know, you're creating new, new licks, let's call them. And, you know, is that your creative way to, you know, on the harmonica?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it seems to be, even if it's something you'd, sometimes you can do things and, and you think, well, I'm going to have to record that now, otherwise I'll forget how to play it. And then you go back, listen to it, and just make sure, play it again and again and again, and make sure it goes into your brain. I find it useful for that.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's a good idea, that, yeah. I mean, I do record myself, but I don't really build up a series of licks like that. It's a good tip, I think, too. Yeah, it

SPEAKER_03:

definitely works for me, yeah. And that just means that you will almost, in terms of recording, I almost always use them somewhere. So it's a good way of kind of... It builds up your vocabulary as well, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, then we'll get into the last section now and talk about gear. So you're a Harmonica's U player. I believe you're a home new man.

SPEAKER_03:

I am, yes, exclusively. Actually, I did start... with Leosca's alongside Hohner's when I first started buying that but yeah quite quickly it became clear that Hohner's was the one that worked for me just feels feels the best to me

SPEAKER_00:

and which models do you like to play

SPEAKER_03:

I really like the crossover that would be my my number one I think I have a few customs but that's a whole different conversation I think but just in terms of you know out of the box the crossover the Marine Band Deluxe and the standard Marine Band are tend to be most of that's most of what's in the case for me

SPEAKER_00:

definitely marine band bass there yeah so yeah so what you know so what about customizers i i know you uh you've got some joe spears ones for example

SPEAKER_03:

yeah i've got a few from joe um i've got a couple from andre as well i forget how to pronounce his surname yes that's right yeah he's making really nice harps as well Keys that I use most frequently, I've got just buyers, ones in just about all of those, I think. And then, you know, I always have backups as well, which usually kind of just standard crossovers or Marine Bandilocks.

SPEAKER_00:

So what do you think about the value of the customized ones? Do you think they are, you know, well worth it?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, I don't think you need a custom art by any stretch. And it's probably better to learn on, you know, a standard instrument that isn't customized, I think, to kind of get your chops together. But they are really nice to have. I mean, and it's more about how they feel. Do you play any custom ones yourself?

SPEAKER_00:

I have a small number, but I generally do some setup myself.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, okay. So you'll know it's more about just how it feels, isn't it? I mean, nobody's going to hear the difference in the audience, but it just responds better, doesn't it? And because it responds better, it can make you play better, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, definitely, yeah. I mean, do you do any basic setup yourself?

SPEAKER_03:

I do, yeah, but just basic stuff. I mean, I usually find that it will need regapping and tuning a new harp I will need gaffing and tuning to some extent anyway so I'll do the basic kind of reset the action on the reeds to how I like it make sure I use a lot of octaves kind of the full range of the harp so I make sure that all my octaves are in tune and that's it really once you get into the more advanced areas of customization then it's usually somebody else that has done that for me

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, I think the basic setup's definitely worth it, but I mean, as much as anything, it's the time, just doing them, especially when you've got quite a lot of money, because it's like, yeah. But yeah, no, it's definitely worth doing the basic setup, I think, so yeah. Oh yeah, I think it's important to know how to do that, yeah. Yeah. Nods, you've got some custom combs as well. Where have you got those ones from?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I've got a few from Tom Halchuk.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, a blue moon, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I really like the brass ones for the low-tuned harps because they kind of just brighten it slightly. So like a low F or a low D, I've got brass combs on those. They kind of just ring a bit more.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a good shout. Yeah, with the low-tuned ones, definitely just brighten them up slightly.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they work really well for that. And I've also got, just quite recently, got some from Todd Parrott as well. They're a plastic comb, but they're kind of like a... Is it Corian? It might be Corian. But with all the different kind of... colors and things like that they just look nice you know

SPEAKER_00:

yeah it's good that they look nice and then you know talking to Todd about you know it's also nice to be able to tell which key they are by color right that's a useful thing to have isn't it yeah it's definitely worth doing that for nothing else yeah great so you've talked about practicing positions so do you play different positions yourself when you're performing

SPEAKER_03:

uh yeah I mean predominantly in second and third I play quite a lot of third these days Occasionally little bits of first. First, second and third would be the ones. I've just started messing with a little bit of fifth as well. But all of the stuff on record is first, second and third. The really long blues at the end of the album, No More Trouble. So that's got a couple of positions because the intro is first position on a minor tuned harp. And the rest of it is third position, mainly on diatonic with one small section of chromatic. So there's a bit going

SPEAKER_00:

on in there. And what about any different tunings? Do you use any?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, like I just mentioned, that's a minor tuned harp on the start of that track. That's a natural minor. I don't use other tunings very often. I've got a couple of natural minors, which is sometimes nice to play with. Country tuning as well. I like. But that's it. I'm not a big one for lots of altered tunings. It just doesn't really work for my brain. I just kind of need to stick with pretty much the Richter.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I know you are. But the country tuning, do you use that for just the major seventh or do you like to bend down the five draw? What's your main use of that one?

SPEAKER_03:

I've only really just started messing with that, to be honest. I'm not really recording anything with that. But yeah, just with the raised five draw, isn't it? It just sounds... sounds a bit sweeter that would work for there's a track on the ep called fault line which is more like a that's definitely got like a country-ish vibe and the harp i'm playing on there's a little bit like you know the style of mickey rafael ish

SPEAKER_00:

Is that a country-tuned harmonica you're playing?

SPEAKER_03:

No, it isn't, but I'm thinking that would work for that. So I might start playing the country-tuned when we do it live.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, good idea, yeah. And what about your embouchure? What do you use?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm a hybrid player. I still use a fair bit of lip pass, but I use a lot of tongue block in the middle octave and I use tons of octave splits as well. I don't really subscribe to the dogmatic sort of you have to tongue-lock everything. I mean, you know, it's all subjective, isn't it? But, like, I just think whatever works makes it come out of you the best. And for me, it's just turned into, like, a hybrid thing. I just like to mix both.

SPEAKER_00:

And what about any overblows? Yeah. Hanging out with Jason Richer, you picked some of him.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it was probably, like, certainly it was the likes of watching... videos from jason and adam gusso that got me using overblows but this is before i'd met jason you know because he started putting videos out i don't know 15 years ago something like that so yeah for the four five and six had found their way into my playing and on some of the recordings as well i mean i wouldn't say i use them like massively all the time but they're definitely in there

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I used well-placed overblows. Yeah, that's a good use of them, yeah. Yeah, so you mentioned that you recorded a bit of chromatic on the song. Do you use that more extensively? What's your thoughts on the chromatic?

SPEAKER_03:

I do love playing the chromatic, and I kind of just... It's just from time to time, really. We recorded Five Long Years with Paul Boy years ago, and that was a chromatic song. But yeah, it's also on this one on the current album. Just the sound of, just those big octaves. I mean, it's just sort of an irresistible noise, isn't it? I do like to play it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You like the third position there?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's all third, yeah. I can't, the kind of, once you get into the more, you know, play the second position on chromatic and stuff, that's, I've not done, I've not mastered that much.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and what about your gear? What about amplification first?

SPEAKER_03:

It's the Fender Bassman that I've always gone back to. Bought my Bassman years ago and I love it. It still sounds great with just about any mic. It's a 90s reissue. I've had several boutique amps over the years and kind of eventually sold most of them on. for my big amp it's still the basement and I have a Weezer ME18 as well for the smaller amp because that's quite versatile

SPEAKER_00:

I see you had a Sunny Junior I

SPEAKER_03:

did yeah in fact it was only quite recently when I moved the Sunny Junior amp on it was the Tronshire which was a lovely amp it was kind of still in pristine condition and just wasn't using it enough you know I was always kind of defaulting to the basement so it's like that's the one for me really

SPEAKER_00:

so that wasn't a basement you know sort of modified basement was it not it's had a different speaker configuration? The

SPEAKER_03:

Sony Junior? Yeah. Yeah, it was a 12 and two eights, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Whereas the basement's a 14. Yeah. And I just, for me, the 10s are just about right.

SPEAKER_00:

And microphone wise, what do you like to use?

SPEAKER_03:

These days, it's like a good, a good crystal or strong sort of CR. I've got a couple of black label CRs and a couple of really nice crystals from Dennis Groomland. I've been using the Bullet for quite a long time now, but I was just listening back to some of those early recordings that I passed on to you, like the Poor Boy stuff. I used the show 545 exclusively for quite a few years. You can really hear it on those, like on A Driver Go Blind.

UNKNOWN:

MUSIC PLAYS

SPEAKER_03:

Quite butterfield-y sounding. It's got that real, it's really punchy, you know. And I've only recently re-bought one of those because I kind of, I used it for years, just that, and then I sold it and kind of always wished that I hadn't. So I've actually just re-bought a 545 just because I like the sound of it, you know. My default is still a Crystal or a CR these days, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. No, I have a 545, and I don't use it much. But yeah, it's got a lot of presence, hasn't it? Yeah, yeah. And a lot of power behind it. So yeah, I should get it out more myself. It might inspire me to give it another go.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah, definitely. What about any effects?

SPEAKER_03:

I'm not a huge effects guy. I like some kind of slapback delay effects. Quite often I use the EP Booster, which I really like for just about any amp. This is the one that's supposed to be based off the old Echoplex. I don't know if you're familiar with this pedal. I can't quite put my finger on what it does to the sound. I just really, I just know that I really like it. It seems to just sort of make everything sound slightly better. But yeah, I mean, that's really, you know, I've kind of, I haven't messed with more pedals in the past and I've always kind of just ended up selling them on. So as long as I've got some, I like the delay and a little bit of boost. And that's about it really for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Great to talk to you then. And just final question, what about your future plans? You say it sounds like you're recording a new album with Dust Radio and anything else?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I mean, that's very early stages yet because we've only just sort of got the last one over the line. But certainly as we get into next year, that's what we'll be working on. There's more stuff being passed between us now for ideas wise. So the focus will be on that for next year, I think. It seems to be received pretty well, so we'll keep doing it.

SPEAKER_00:

And you think it helps you, you know, getting your presence and getting more gigs and you think it's pretty critical to get an album together?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, just to keep the creativity going, I think, really. Just to keep the momentum of that going.

SPEAKER_00:

So thanks so much for joining me today, Paddy Wells. Thanks very much,

SPEAKER_03:

Neil. It's a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00:

Thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. And be sure to check out the great range of harmonicas and products at www.zidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidel Harmonicas. Thanks to Paddy for joining me today, and thanks to Peter Cook from Down Under for the donation to the podcast. There is the option to support the show with a small monthly donation of your choosing. There is a link at the end of the podcast show notes, should you wish to do this. It's been my intention all along to keep this podcast ad-free, and any small amounts really help with that. But no problem if not, it's just a pleasure to have you listening. We'll finish off now with Paddy's No More Trouble from his Dust Radio album, Problem and Remedy.

UNKNOWN:

Problem and Remedy Bye.