Neil Warren interview

Tom Ellis interviews Neil Warren on episode 101.

Neil started out playing blues harmonica in his hometown of Blackburn (with it’s 4000 holes). He progressed into learning jazz, taking jazz chromatic lessons for several years, and then folk music. Neil currently plays in two bands around his local area, an acoustic act playing blues and folk, and an electric band playing different genres, such as ska and funk and blues, including use of the DM48 midi chromatic.

He has won three categories of competitions at the UK National Harmonica League festival and helped organise the Chromatic Weekend festival for them for several years. 

The discussion then turns to focus on the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast, how it got started, how he sources the people to interview, what the podcast tries to do and some of his own favourite moments from the first 100 episodes.

Links:

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com/

Contact podcast:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com/contact/

Transcription website:
https://www.harptranscripts.co.uk/

Harp Keys: showing key of harmonica used on over 1000 songs:
https://www.harptranscripts.co.uk/harpkeys.html

Rev John and the Revelations:
https://revjohnh490546051.wordpress.com/

Greg Mayston band:
https://www.folkbluesandamericana.com/

Harmonica UK (was National Harmonica League):
https://www.harmonica.uk/

Videos:
Roseanne soundtrack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSE51IAUZ3M

Dark Eyes at UK Chromatic Weekend:
https://youtu.be/fh664YnZcFc?si=mowTd5gPtJJdBvNc

Blair Athol (Scottish folk song):
https://youtu.be/eZ-FT48q05Q

Blowing The Family Jewels:
https://youtu.be/fnOZrIr7AE4

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

or sign-up to a monthly subscription to the podcast:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/995536/support

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram

Chapters

• 1:33 Tom Ellis interviews Neil Warren on the podcast
• 1:45 Tom recently wrote an article on Neil Warren, and the podcast, which appeared in the Autumn SPAH magazine, Harmonica Happenings
• 2:04 In the article Tom compares the podcast to the efforts of Rick Beato in the US, who is documenting musicians on his YouTube channel
• 2:42 Neil is from Blackburn, Lancashire, in the north west of England, now living near Reading, not far from London
• 3:15 First inspiration for playing the harmonica was Bruce Willis
• 4:00 Then discovered blues harmonica from a low budget record label releasing albums on cassette tapes and started playing along to learn
• 5:01 Played with my friend, Philip James, after he moved to the US and started playing guitar, while I learnt harmonica in the UK, and he came back to the UK and we played together
• 5:35 No other harmonica players around in Blackburn when he started playing
• 5:51 Decent blues scene in North West of England, with Colne and Burnley festivals
• 6:08 Quite a good music scene in the pubs at the time (early 1990s)
• 6:14 First inspiring live gig was by a band called The Harpbreakers
• 6:50 Was also a big fan of Bob Dylan, and his not so great harmonica playing
• 7:34 Discovered more blues harmonica players partly through a blues magazine series featuring different artists
• 8:24 Started playing in a college band with friend who had returned from the US
• 8:31 Joined second band after a visiting workman to the house heard me playing harmonica in my bedroom
• 8:52 How became aware of the National League League (UK harmonica club)
• 9:49 Played a little chromatic when younger, and took it up seriously from age 30
• 10:10 Learned to read music a little when younger, then more seriously later
• 10:43 Had lots of jazz harmonica lessons from the great UK jazz chromatic player, Julian Jackson
• 12:01 Learnt diatonic initially by playing along with records, and had a small number of lessons on diatonic
• 12:25 Always been a dedicated practiser, and follow the Deliberate Practise model now (Peak book by Anders Erikson)
• 12:39 Started learning violin during pandemic, enjoying the classical approach to learning
• 13:07 Also play mandolin (which is same tuning as violin)
• 14:02 Like to play folk music too
• 14:38 Plays in an acoustic blues and folk act, with Greg Mayston
• 15:10 Other current band is Rev John and the Revelations, playing blues, ska, a little reggae and funk
• 15:53 Always keen to show the versatility of the harmonica and not just play one sort of genre or sound
• 16:18 Discovered the DM48 midi through the podcast interview with Erik Lekholm and Jason Keene
• 17:24 Helped organise the Chromatic Weekend festival for the National Harmonica League in the UK
• 17:49 Won three categories at the National Harmonica League competition: blues, jazz and diatonic melodic
• 19:08 Gigging 3 or 4 times a month at the moment while having a day job
• 20:04 Other bands played in, including a trio playing blues and quite a lot of gypsy jazz
• 22:02 The current harmonica scene in the UK
• 23:07 Ran a gig listing website for harmonica gigs in the UK, which allowed Neil to get to know lots of the UK harmonica players and was a precursor to starting the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast
• 24:40 Podcast covers different genres, and not just be about blues harmonica
• 25:11 How people are found to interview on the podcast
• 26:42 Qualifications for people to interview on the podcast
• 27:38 One of main reasons in starting podcast was my own extensive song collection of many harmonica players, and finding the ‘best’ harmonica songs
• 28:16 HarpKeys page shows key of diatonic harmonica used on over one thousand songs
• 29:15 Transcribing has been a part of Neil’s learning process, including for jazz
• 30:29 How structured and pre-planned are the interviews?
• 31:18 The plans to bring more of different aspects to the podcast, such as female players, and players from different regions
• 33:07 Example of sourcing Marko Jovanovic, a German player with Serbia roots
• 33:53 Podcast keeps away from the instructive side of harmonica, which is deliberate
• 34:55 Jazz player Gregoire Maret and want to represent chromatic harmonica strongly in the podcasts
• 36:04 Other research conducted for the interviews
• 36:43 Some of own personal favourite interviews from the first 100, but learns something from every one
• 38:12 Interview with Canadian Mike Stevens
• 38:36 Juzzie Smith and juggling harmonica
• 40:29 Seydel’s sponsorship of the podcast
• 41:07 Interviews with Hohner and Seydel and the gear oriented podcast episodes
• 41:52 Covering the topic of altered tunings and different approaches and development of the harmonica
• 42:31 Learning from the harmonica stories and successes of the people interviewed on the podcast
• 43:45 Podcast is documenting harmonica in our time, such as Los Angeles scene via Rod Piazza, and Piedmont style with Phil Wiggins
• 44:39 Possibility of writing a book based around the podcast
• 45:34 The podcast is a labour of love
• 46:16 Talking to so many different players about the gear they use often results in wanting to buy the gear they talk about
• 46:59 Harmonicas of choice
• 47:40 Improvement in quality of harmonicas in recent years
• 48:14 Does some basic set-up of harmonicas
• 48:24 Plays a little bass and chord harmonica, with the chord always getting a good reaction from a crowd
• 48:42 Chromatics of choice
• 49:12 Has a gig bag with all harps needed for performing
• 49:41 Amps used
• 50:47 Mics used
• 51:31 Pedals, including the Line 6 patches from Richard Hunter
• 52:14 Acoustic mics of choice
• 52:27 Plans to do more retrospective episodes, following the success of the 100th one on Little Walter
• 53:44 Top the Little Walter episode by having an interview about me!
• 54:16 The plans for the podcast
• 54:59 How playing is effected by podcast interviews
• 56:31 Spotify playlist is a key accompaniment to the podcast and other wider listening
• 57:36 Now reached the age of 50, intend to play as much music as possible, and attend the SPAH conference
• 58:46 Tom has been a great help behind the scenes of the podcast

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Tom Ellis interviews Neil Warren on episode 101. Oh, that's me. Neil started out playing blues harmonica in his hometown of Blackburn with its 4,000 holes. He progressed into learning jazz, taking jazz chromatic lessons for several years, and then folk music. Neil currently plays in two bands around his local area, an acoustic act playing blues and folk, and an electric band playing different genres such as ska and funk and blues, including the use of the DM-48 mini-chromatic. He has won three categories of competitions at the UK National Harmonica League Festival and helped organise the Chromatic Weekend Festival for them for several years. The discussion then turns to focus on the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast, how it got started, how he sources the people to interview, what the podcast tries to do and some of his own favourite moments from the first 100 episodes. This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas.

SPEAKER_01: 1:27

Hello Neil Warren and welcome to your podcast.

SPEAKER_00: 1:31

Thanks Tom, thanks so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:33

Well it's a pleasure to be given the opportunity to interview you about this remarkable effort you've put forth to document harmonica players and what they are about.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

Well, thank you. And also thanks for the recent spa article, which we're following on nicely with this one.

SPEAKER_01: 1:51

Well, you're welcome. And I think the spa article, one of the things I was trying to say there was that what you're doing, besides the fact that it's a remarkable singular effort on your part, I think one of the things that I was trying to do was to compare you in some ways to an American phenomenon named Rick Beato, who has taken kind of a similar approach to what you've been doing, and has become kind of a focal point and a very important person in documenting musicians and what musicians are about and what their music is like and what brought them into the business of being a professional musician. Neil, why don't we start this podcast with you telling us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, how you fell into your love of the harmonica and your interest in harmonica players, and then we'll proceed from there.

SPEAKER_00: 2:42

Thanks, Tom. So I'm from England, as people probably know. So I'm from Blackburn in Lancashire. That's the place with the 4,000 holes from the Beatles song that I'm sure many of the U.S. and other international listeners will be aware of, knowing anything about Blackburn, which is where I'm from. I now live in the southeast of England, sort of west of London, near a place called Reading. So I got into playing harmonica when I was about 15 years old. As it mentioned, and you put in your sport magazine article, strangely, my first inspiration for playing harmonica was actually Bruce Willis, which I'm not sure how many other people that he would have inspired to get started. But I was a fan of the Moonlighting TV show. You know, Bruce Willis was a very charismatic guy. And so, yeah, I found some video, music video of him. And, you know, as people probably know, he does play the harmonic. and sings in the band. And he had a really good album called The Return of Bruno. It's a great song on there called Jackpot. So that's what I kind of first discovered harmonica and then I got into it. Started like many other people, sort of digging into finding, you know, the classic blues recordings. There was a record label, a cheap record label then, were actually cassettes where I bought the Deja Vu label, which were quite cheap. And I started buying, you know, kind of Little Walter and Muddy Waters albums and other blues greats. And that's how I sort of first started hearing the harmonica.

SPEAKER_01: 4:22

So you're the first harmonica player I I've ever talked with or heard about who came to the instrument through a television sitcom. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_00: 4:31

Yeah. Well, Roseanne had a good bit of harmonic on the soundtrack. I'm sure that probably inspired a few people as well, but yeah. Good point.

UNKNOWN: 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 4:47

So from there, I started, you know, I started listening. And back then, like, again, many people have said on here, there weren't many resources, there weren't the internet like there is now. But, you know, I managed to find the recordings and started playing along. And that's basically how I initially started playing. But strangely, a slight link to the US is my sort of best friend then. He'd gone over to live in the United States for a little while, about the age 14, because his father was American. And so he went over there to live. And so while he was over there, he started playing guitar. and I was playing harmonica so we were sort of separately started learning and we were writing to each other and things. He sort of came back a couple of years later when we both had been playing for a year separately and then we sort of came together and we started playing together in a duo and then went on to my sort of first band with him.

SPEAKER_01: 5:35

So when you started, were there other players that you met where you lived that you became part of a scene or were you working pretty much solo and completely on your own learning the

SPEAKER_00: 5:46

instrument? That stage, yeah, I was on my own. I didn't know of any of the harmonica players. There was quite a decent blues scene in the northwest of England. So there was two quite large blues festivals in places called Colne and Burnley in Lancashire. So I went to those and I sort of think I saw some harmonica at those. So yeah, and then there was probably a decent scene in pubs then so you could play and things. So there was some music going on, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:14

So when you went to the blues festivals, did you have... have one of those aha moments that a lot of harmonica players have when they get out and actually get to see some of their some of their idols and people that they've listened to many times

SPEAKER_00: 6:26

yeah i remember seeing a band which was a british band and the harmonica player i forget the name of the band now but he sort of climbed on top of this massive speaker and he was you know kind of doing all those kind of tricks so that was probably the first you know really good harmonica concert i think i remember seeing

SPEAKER_01: 6:43

And so were you just listening to blues or were you listening to rock and roll and pop styles that utilize the harmonica as well?

SPEAKER_00: 6:51

I did get into listening to Bob Dylan. I was a massive Bob Dylan fan when I was probably about that age. And of course, I'm aware that Bob Dylan probably isn't the greatest harmonica player in the world. But nevertheless, I could hear harmonica. And of course, he had Charlie McCoy playing on them. But yeah, mainly blues to begin with.

SPEAKER_01: 7:07

And the blues, did that grow out of your love of Bob Dylan and his use of blues musicians No, it

SPEAKER_00: 7:17

was definitely the albums I bought were blues albums, you know, and then the blues. I think I probably wasn't that aware of who the blues harmonica players were initially. You know, I probably sort of bought various blues albums and I discovered which ones had harmonica on before I learned, you know, obviously about Little Walter and the rest.

SPEAKER_01: 7:34

Right. And so how did that transition happen? I mean, I know in my own playing, I started listening to some harmonica players and then I would look at the composer credits on the songs. And, you know, it would say Willie Dixon or it would say Little Walter. And that led me on to dig further and dig deeper. Was your experience similar to that?

SPEAKER_00: 7:54

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. As you say, you start digging deep and then you find the others. There was a magazine series which came out. It was a blues series. And I think probably that helped me as well by having articles about different players and things.

SPEAKER_01: 8:07

How quickly then did you become part of the harmonica scene in England, which is, I think, a lot more developed and a lot more extensive than most Americans are aware of?

SPEAKER_00: 8:18

Well, again, my friend who came back from the US, who's called Philip James, by the way, he's actually a professional guitar player now. So we started playing. We played at college, the college we were at. We started doing some gigs. Then we met some... Actually, in the sort of second band I was in after college, I was practicing harmonica at home. And this guy came around to fix something in my house and he heard me playing and he was in a band and he sort of asked me. So that's how I kind of got into that band. People say you never get discovered playing in the house, but I did that time.

SPEAKER_01: 8:50

Yeah, that's funny. So when did you become aware of the kind of the harmonica scene in England? Not only the big scene and the organized scene with the harmonic organizations, but also kind of the range of harmonica players like Paul Lamb and some of the other guys that were so well known as English players.

SPEAKER_00: 9:11

you know, I sort of discovered those as I went along. After college, I went to university. A little bit after that, I discovered the National Harmonica League in the UK, which is the UK harmonica club, sort of equivalent to spa. And yeah, that definitely helped me discovering a lot more. And they put on great concerts and, you know, the festival, the concerts and workshops. So you had lots of different, you know, styles of harmonica. They tried to represent, you know, chromatic and dietic and tremolo and folk and blues and different styles so that was definitely a really helpful and a really appreciative of what they did yeah Did

SPEAKER_01: 9:49

you begin playing chromatic at some point and did the National Harmonica League have any did they influence the move towards the chromatic?

SPEAKER_00: 9:58

To begin with, I definitely played diatonic and I did that for quite a long time. But then I did, when I was young, start playing the chromatic and I sort of tried to teach myself from a book. But then it wasn't until I was about the age 30, I'm age 50 now, by the way, born in 1973. It was about that age that I started getting more seriously into playing the chromatic as well.

UNKNOWN: 10:25

piano plays

SPEAKER_01: 10:29

and did you read music at that time or were you learning to read music

SPEAKER_00: 10:39

i learned a little when i was younger from the book but then i i had lots of lessons on chromatic with a fantastic jazz player here in england called julian jackson so And I had lots of jazz lessons with him. So at that stage, I was really seriously into learning jazz. I'm not quite so seriously into learning jazz now. I do still play some jazz on the chromatic, but I think to be a jazz chromatic player, you've got to devote everything to it. But now I'm interested in playing different genres, so I'm not the full-on jazzer that I was trying to be during that time.

UNKNOWN: 11:29

piano plays

SPEAKER_01: 11:34

so when you were playing the diatonic was your method of learning buying the recordings and you know listening and playing back and listening and playing back or were you able to find someone to give you some some advice and give you you know some in-person lessons

SPEAKER_00: 12:02

For the diatonic, initially, like, again, many people I've talked to on the podcast, I learned by playing along with records. But then, yeah, I had a few lessons on diatonic, not so many as I did on chromatic, just a small number. I'm quite a dedicated practicer. You know, I sort of practice music every day. And so, you know, I read things, listen to other podcasts. I've recently got into this whole idea of deliberate practice, which is where you have a very kind of focused, dedicated way to practice and, you know, you get feedback, you know, I'm teaching. I'm very dedicated to the practice side. So yeah, I definitely picked up on all those things. And in fact, during the pandemic, I started having violin lessons, not really to get great on the violin, but more just like the kind of formality of classical lessons. And, you know, that's kind of teaching structure that's available for the violin. isn't really available for the harmonica right so I just like that and I quite enjoy the sort of discipline of the classical side which is not something I ever did really when I was younger because you know the way that I learned and many people learn the harmonica so and also my interest in violin is because I play some mandolin as well so but I mean harmonica is absolutely definitely my thing the stringed instruments still feel kind of alien to me but I do kind of like the discipline and you know of learning a different instrument and understanding chords and that sort of thing so that's kind of why I do it but yeah harmonica is definitely my thing

SPEAKER_01: 13:26

but your approach to the harmonica is still free form I mean it's not dictated so much by structure like most harmonica players find their playing is like

SPEAKER_00: 13:38

well it depends what sort of music I'm playing I mean I definitely read music When I'm playing chromatic, especially, which is more suited to reading music, although a little bit on diatonic too. So yeah, I mean, I'm now I'm interested because, you know, obviously I learned blues. I studied jazz for a few years, as I said, had lots of lessons. So obviously that involves lots of theory and structure before you let yourself lose on improvising. And then I also like playing sort of folk music. Kind of old-timey music. There's quite a lot of old-timey music around where I live, which is an American form of folk music, as you probably know. So that is partly learning by ear and partly learning from written scores as well. So yeah, a bit of both, really.

SPEAKER_01: 14:17

How did all this drill back down to your blues playing? And tell me a little bit about your band experiences that you've had and the types of music that your bands have played.

SPEAKER_00: 14:28

Yeah, so as I said, my three main genres are blues, jazz, and sort of folky stuff. And I've played in a few bands, which I'll talk through, but my two current bands, one of them we sort of play folk and blues, more acoustic type. That's with a guy called Greg Maiston. So I perform around with him. So then I play some mandolin, mostly harmonica and the sort of blues and folk side of things. piano plays And then I'm in another band called Rev John and the Revelations. So we did quite a mixture of genres in there. Some blues stuff, but then also some ska and bits of reggae and sort of funk and these kind of different genres. And so in that, I actually used the DM-48 MIDI chromatic quite a lot. So I sort of used trumpet sounds and saxophone sounds and flutes from the MIDI chromatic. which I love and I think has got tremendous you know use and you know just to bring that variety I think probably like a lot of harmonica players got maybe slight conscious of the fact that the harmonica is you know maybe seen as being a little bit limited in what it can do so I think I've always been trying to push myself to sort of do different things and you know introduce different sounds and play different genres to sort of show what the harmonica can do and you know sort of make myself valuable and fitting into the bands really so I think try to do cover a Did

SPEAKER_01: 16:18

you have an example of someone who was using that MIDI that attracted you to it, or was that something you kind of discovered on your own, just knowing more about the technology of microphones and effects and those things?

SPEAKER_00: 16:32

Well, the MIDI I mainly discovered from doing the podcast interview with Eric Leckholm and also Jason Keen. I mean, I was aware of it, but I hadn't really tried it. But then I thought that would be a good topic for the podcast episode, and hence that interview idea. And that's what made me more interested in getting one and trying it out. So that's what I did. And yeah, it's not something you'd use entirely. It's just like something you can use in some songs. I wouldn't play it all the time. It's still obviously great to play harmonica and use a real harmonica. But yeah, it just adds more variety to your playing.

SPEAKER_01: 17:08

Yeah, yeah. It's like adding a new instrument to the ensemble. That's really interesting. So tell us a little bit about your interfacing with... the harmonic organizations in england and your competition and the different levels of competition you've been engaged with

SPEAKER_00: 17:24

yeah so the national harmonic league i got i got involved with those and i actually helped run the chromatic weekend which i helped run for quite a few years over the last 10 years or so and i was on the organizing committee so that was a little festival we put together where we you know was focused on the chromatic so i got that involvement and david hamley and and Hilvert as well. But yeah, basically, I went to the festivals. They had a competition. And a few years ago now, I entered the competition every year. I saw it as great motivation to practice and get a piece up to standard. And I did manage to win in the three categories. I won the blues category playing Mark Hummel's Harmonica Party song, which is a great instrumental. I also won the jazz category playing Sophisticated Lady, which is the Duke Ellington song.

UNKNOWN: 18:16

piano plays

SPEAKER_02: 18:17

And

SPEAKER_00: 18:35

then I also won the diatonic melodic by playing a folk melody.

SPEAKER_01: 18:41

So what are those competitions like? Are there... musicians to accompany you like

SPEAKER_00: 18:47

yeah there was a there's a piano well there was a piano player uh chris collis who would accompany people or you could use your own backing tracks but actually recently they've stopped having a live competition and they now just do it as an online submission but i haven't entered the competition since i've done that it's been a few years since i entered the competition now but that was a good few years back

SPEAKER_01: 19:08

And so you said that now you're playing in a couple of different bands. So what does that translate into? How much gigging are you doing every month? Sounds like you're busy.

SPEAKER_00: 19:18

Yeah, I mean, I entered the second band just over a year ago. And at the time, I was thinking, do I have time for a second band? But I'm glad I did it because I'm playing different sorts of music. So I'm not gigging all the time. I'm probably gigging maybe three four times a month at the most i do have a full-time job you know i devote much of my time to the harmonica and obviously the podcast that i'm very devoted to the music but yeah i'm not a full-time professional musician you know i have a day job so uh but my evenings are mostly taken up by by music so yeah playing in a band called Beggar's Belief. That was probably like 15 years ago. So a good set of guys. I still play with one of those guys on drums. And then about 10 years, I was in a trio with a guy called Stu Wietman and his son, Tom Wietman. Tom now lives in Austria and he's working full-time as a musician. So he's doing great. So in that, we did a mixture playing quite a lot of gypsy jazz. For example, playing Django Reinhardt songs like Nuage.

SPEAKER_02: 20:34

That's

SPEAKER_00: 20:47

kind of partly what got me into doing the jazz harmonica lessons because I was playing jazz with those guys. And then also blues, you know, lots of blues. So that was that combination mainly of playing jazz and blues with Stu and Tom in that trio. That's kind of partly what got me And then I was in another blues band called Three Book Shirt around Reading. I recorded on a couple albums with a folk guy called Jack Warshaw, actually another American who lives over here, so I did a bit of recording for him.

UNKNOWN: 0:00

.

SPEAKER_00: 21:36

And then around where I live, again, there's quite a lot of sessions, as we call them. I think you call them the same in the US, don't you? And that's where I got into the folk music.

UNKNOWN: 0:00

.

SPEAKER_01: 22:02

What is your perspective now on the harmonica in England? Is it still being aggressively played? Is the blues scene as big as it was, say, 15 years ago? Has it changed? Has it diminished or grown? Is there still a lot of interest in the harmonica from your perspective?

SPEAKER_00: 22:22

so I mean yes there's a reasonably good blues scene but I think like everywhere there's not as many venues here as there used to be you know back when I started playing sort of in the early 90s you know there seemed to be a lot more live music venues but yeah there's a good scene I mean I live not far from London and there's quite a good blues scene there and there is a few bars there's like Ain't Nothing But which is a really good blues bar in central London which has harmonica gigs you know every week so it's not bad and obviously I've talked to lots of British harmonica players on the podcast. So one thing I ran, which is a bit of a precursor to the podcast, is that I ran a gig list, a harmonica gig list in the UK. Really? Yeah. This was something I wanted to do because I always wanted this thing about how do I find a good harmonica gig that I want to go and see, and I wanted to know what good gigs are, and particularly when there were good visiting players from the US and Europe. So I started this gig list, which I ran for a few years just before the pandemic, and that allowed me to get a lot of really good contacts in the UK, especially with the British players, and I would contact them and have them send me their gigs. And I ran this gig list for, as I say, probably for about two years until the pandemic hit and that kind of obviously all the gigs stopped. And then I didn't resume it after that, partly because I started the podcast and that took that time, but also it was quite hard work getting people to send the gigs in. So, but yeah, it was, you know, that was, as I say, a bit of a precursor to starting the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 24:09

You know, one of the things that I find most impressive about the podcast is just the variety and range of the players involved. that you have interviewed I mean, it really crosses so many different genres and the more unique the genre is to me, the more fascinating I find the interviews to be. How do you source the players? How do you find these people that are outside of England and many of whom are not common names among the harmonica community in the United States, for example?

SPEAKER_00: 24:37

Yeah, it's a very good question. I mean, I do try to, you know, cover different genres and try to cover different countries. That's want it to be about blues although of course you know blues is definitely my first love on harmonica and probably most harmonica players right so blues is always going to feature heavily but I've got interest outside and I'm fascinated to hear what other people can do with the harmonica particularly in countries outside US and Europe where you know they have their own sort of you know traditions of music which they play so as to how I find people it's in various ways really quite often I'm directed to people from you know like for example you Tom have been very helpful in helping me source players in the US because obviously I'm aware of lots of players in the US but not everyone because obviously I don't live in the US so quite often people help in fact the first person I was directed to was to Billy Branch so Giles Robson who is a really good player in the UK and he's done exceptionally well and organizes all these amazing concerts in fact he's got a series with John Primer the classic Chicago guitar player and coming up in the UK now in January this year so he put me on to Billy Branch because he got Billy Branch over to do some gigs in the UK so I asked Giles if he could you know get me in touch with him so quite often it's people you know sort of help me out particularly in the early days Joe Felisco was really helpful he helped put me on to some people and he helped me get Kim Wilson which was fantastic so I don't think I'd have got Kim without Joe's help so quite often people helped in that way obviously I'm aware of the horrible Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01: 26:42

So do you have a set of qualifications that you feel necessary to, that warrant a podcast determined by, for example, the number of recordings someone has issued, or a personal recommendation from someone like Joe Felisco?

SPEAKER_00: 26:59

Yeah, that's a good question. Obviously, I do want to have quality players on, but I don't always know... that much about the person I'm interviewing. So I do try to do my research beforehand and obviously pick people out who are of a good playing standard for sure is a kind of prerequisite. Some people, it's easy, right? They're professional players. They've got lots of albums out. They've got websites. So that makes it easy to see that they are very well established.

SPEAKER_01: 27:25

What is your research like as you get ready to interview someone on the podcast?

SPEAKER_00: 27:30

So a really big thing about the podcast before I answer that specific question. So one of the reasons I started the podcast, when I was learning in my early days of playing the harmonica, I built up this huge harmonica collection. I would listen to as many blues albums as I can, initially blues and then later different genres. And then I would sort of pick songs off the album that were my favourite, but also that I felt they represented different styles of harmonica or certain techniques, various things, not just that they were the best songs. And then I built up my own MP3 collection, which I then stored on my phone, and I had them all categorised into different keys, so all songs played on an A harmonica, C harmonica, etc. And so I have this big harmonic song collection of well over a thousand songs, which I've got Most of those available on the web on my Heart Transcripts website, which I'll put the link to the podcast page. So there's a page in there called Heart Keys, and you can see all these different keys of harmonica that these songs are played on. So I think the best resource of what harmonica is that song played on the web, I think. So I built all those. So I always had this mission to sort of find the best harmonica songs, right, and to help my own learning. And I would play along with these songs and try and learn from them. So that was a massive part of how I learned and built up this big collection. And so the idea for the podcast and what I do, which is that I profile the players, it is really an extension of that. You know, it's about listening to them. So part of my research is absolutely to listen to pretty much all the albums of the artists before I interview them. them so week or two before the interview I just listen to them exclusively and then I pick out my sort of favorite songs and hence I pick out the clips that I put into the podcast episodes so I can try and represent different things that they've done and you know different genres of playing you know the sort of best playing of what they've done so that's a big part of the research is listening and you know many people will say that you know listening is the most important thing talking to Dennis Groening recently he was definitely of that opinion too you know it's listening you can learn and so much from listening and playing along and transcribing people's music is such a key thing. So that's a really big part of what I'm trying to do with the podcast.

SPEAKER_01: 29:50

interesting yeah so so have you done transcribing before has that been part of your learning process

SPEAKER_00: 29:55

yeah for sure yeah the uh the website i just mentioned the heart transcripts i've done some transcriptions on there and they're available for people to use i use the transcribe software which um quite a lot of people know about so yeah absolutely done did some transcribing and and still do yeah

SPEAKER_01: 30:11

and and did that apply to your jazz playing as well

SPEAKER_00: 30:15

yeah yeah for sure yeah i'm gonna transcribe obviously some two solos and you know larry i'd their solos but also you know jazz musicians as well although that can be tricky

SPEAKER_01: 30:24

you've developed such a reputation for high quality interviews but when i listen to them many times i feel almost like they're almost free form i mean there are some specific questions you always ask but it seems like the players once they get going they kind of open themselves up in a in a very different way in an unexpected way and provide a whole lot more information has Has that been one of the things you have noticed as the interviewer as well? Or is that just me?

SPEAKER_00: 30:51

Yeah, I think so. I think once people get talking, then like you say, they open up. So I try not to get in the way too much of that. I've got, as people, regular listeners, I've got a sort of, you know, kind of a set of questions that I ask each time that are reasonably related. But yeah, I'm happy to let it flow in whichever way the person speaks. And I'll just bring a few topics into viewed more general topic into each episode. But yeah, happy to let it flow.

SPEAKER_01: 31:18

So in this spa article that you referenced, one of the things that you said you wanted to do more of was to find women who were good harmonica players. Do you look at music in general that way? Do you think to yourself, for example, I'd really like to find more jazz players or I'd like to find more... blues players or more country players or more session musicians or whatever? Or has the podcast participation grown more organically and you find out about one player who tells you about another player and you kind of follow that path instead of trying to really organize things by musical style?

SPEAKER_00: 31:52

Yeah, it's reasonably organic. I do try to have some sort of general plan about what I'd like to bring in. For example, you mentioned obviously more female players, but also players from other regions I recently had Vita Lopes from South America. So that was great. You know, I was thinking it'd be great to get some more South Americans and, you know, maybe some, definitely some more Asian players have had Rocky Locke, you know, that's some representation from Asia, but obviously it's a massive market there. So covering different styles, more classical players, because I haven't had too many classical players on. So definitely that. So I definitely have that in mind that I want to, you know, bring those different styles. things into the podcast I'm quite conscious that a lot of the people I interview are from the US and then obviously quite a few from Britain as well which is where I'm from and then some from Europe so I'm sort of torn on that to some extent because a lot of the US players are the most well known and probably do get the most downloads when I do an episode but I definitely don't chase ratings right I'm not I'm not here to sort of just have popular episodes that get lots of downloads but obviously I do want to do episodes that people are interested in listening to. So it's a bit of a challenge in between balancing those.

SPEAKER_01: 33:07

So how did you find someone like Marko Jovanovic? That to me was, it was so illuminating to hear someone like that interviewed and playing that style of music is so far into my concept of what the harmonica can do. How did you discover that player?

SPEAKER_00: 33:22

Yeah, he's great, isn't he? He played this sort of bulk music, which sounds amazing, doesn't it, on the harmonica?

UNKNOWN: 33:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 33:38

So I was aware of Marco from his Berlin harmonica school. That's how I, you know, was aware of him. And I think, you know, in Europe and again for the National Harmonica League is something that was aware of through him. So that's how I found Marco. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:53

You have obviously strayed away from the instructive approach that many of the podcasts and websites are featuring for young harmonica players, or really harmonica players of any ability. Was that by decision as well, that you decided not to pursue that because others were? Because you certainly had some of the greatest players to talk in detail about how they play.

SPEAKER_00: 34:15

Yeah absolutely definitely avoid that topic in any depth because I feel as you say lots of the people do that and I know that lots of people I've talked to on the podcast for example you know sort of do that for a living right so it's almost like I don't really want to step on their toes but not just that I'd like to think that you know the podcast is different if you want instruction there's plenty of instruction out there to go and find on you know on YouTube and lots of lots of different sources and many of the people I've talked to as well so yeah definitely a deliberate Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 34:54

And so someone like Gregoire Moret, for example, I mean, he to me is one of the leading jazz harmonica players. I don't know whether he's inherited the toots mantle or not, but he certainly has played at a very high level, both as a musician performing with other bands and his own recordings. What drew you to interview him, for example? Because he's pretty unique. I don't think that many people in the harmonica world are really fully aware of him.

SPEAKER_00: 35:18

No, I think like a lot of jazz players, they see themselves really more as a jazz player than a harmonica player. So I think you definitely find that in the jazz world. So I was aware of Gregoire because I was playing jazz harmonica. And so I was definitely aware of who he was. He's a Swiss player. So again, based in Europe. So maybe a bit more aware of him in Europe, although of course he lives in the US now. So yeah, I mean, I knew about him from my interest of jazz chromatic. Definitely want to, you know, make sure I represent the chromatic harmonica reasonably strongly in the podcast. You know, there's quite a lot of interviews with the chromatic players, as well as a few other sorts of harmonica. So yeah, that's what the reason, you know, it's a chromatic player. And obviously jazz is a key genre to cover as well.

SPEAKER_01: 36:03

Right. So when you do your research, are you looking, I mean, obviously you're listening to recordings. Are you also digging like into the YouTube and these other sites where there are performances that you can

SPEAKER_00: 36:24

watch? I will do as much research and cover

SPEAKER_01: 36:37

as many areas as I can. installments of the podcast I mean are there a couple of players that you interviewed that stand out just from the standpoint of the interview was much more than you thought it would be or there was some very surprising aspects to it

SPEAKER_00: 37:01

yeah so as you say I don't necessarily like to pick out favorites because in many ways genuinely it's been a pleasure to speak to everyone and I felt I've learned from speaking to everyone so but yes I mean the early episodes the sort of first 20 I did quite a lot of the big name especially the big American names you know I had Kim Wilson on there and you know I had Carlos you know various players then Rob Piazza is a massive favorite of mine so from that point of view those sort of early episodes were kind of you know those sort of big names were obvious choices and I love speaking to all of those but I've enjoyed you know digging and finding people from different countries as we've discussed and finding different genres and finding people who aren't maybe quite so well known but have done some amazing things I mean some of the greats it was talking to Charlie McCoy was fantastic what a gentleman he is and he's done so many amazing things you know probably the most recorded harmonica player ever with all the session work he's done Billy Boy Arnold was amazing because he really is he was around at the time as we talked about in the last Little Walter interview you know he was around at the time with Little Walter he was just a little bit younger so that was amazing to speak to him as surprising one of my definite favourites from that point of view which is something you helped me with Tom was speaking to Mike Stevens he was a great interview and he's just been travelling the North Passage I've been following him on Facebook and he's taken the harmonica up and he's travelled across the North Passage and he's taking you know the harmonica to all these indigenous people up there and he's given out loads of harmonica so he's done amazing things Josie Smith the Australian one man band that was he was great to speak to mainly because I love juggling myself and he juggles and plays the harmonica so um

UNKNOWN: 38:48

so so

SPEAKER_02: 39:17

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00: 39:31

these chukka chuks he used which are these percussion juggling bowls that he uses i actually have some of those but i haven't quite taken the time to master my uh juggling harmonica playing uh yet but uh uh but i do do i do love to juggle

SPEAKER_01: 39:59

yeah the interview with him was fascinating and he He is, as a one-man band, he's both fascinating and kind of an anachronism in some ways because the one-man band, you don't see much of that. And he is so incredibly spectacular at doing it and doing it in a way nobody else does. That was one of my favorite interviews, actually, of the hundred that you've done. So it sounds like this has obviously been a labor of love for you, but the Seidel people have been, you know, very involved too. So can you tell me a little bit about that relationship and how they became involved with the podcast?

SPEAKER_00: 40:37

Yeah, so they've been very kind enough to sponsor the podcast, which I'm very grateful for. I knew them because they came over to the UK to the National Harmonica League festivals. You know, they would bring over and tell their harmonicas and words. So I sort of knew them a little bit from that. And then, you know, know after the interview with um with honer and with with sidle yeah then we struck up this uh this sponsorship which helps me a little bit with the with the running costs of the podcast so yeah i'm very grateful and um those guys do a great job

SPEAKER_01: 41:07

that interview with honer and sidle was that was also from my point of view very unexpected i had never seen anybody actually interview the manufacturers that you know that make the instruments that we play is your thought that you would pursue some of the different directions that those manufacturers are taking with their instruments and some of the new types of instruments with new tunings that they're introducing

SPEAKER_00: 41:29

yeah for sure you know i've enjoyed the ones which have been more gear orientated recently the the green bullet interview was was really i really enjoyed that one a lot and i learned a lot about microphones myself from doing the research for that for that interview and of course we talked about the dm40a and so yeah i've really enjoyed the uh the gear type interviews and i'd like to do some more of those yeah

SPEAKER_01: 41:52

yeah because it seems like they're you know the These altered tunings, it seems like there are more and more of them available. I know I've been messing around with the pentaharp, trying to figure out how it fits. And it's just a completely different instrument to play from a traditional

SPEAKER_00: 42:04

diatonic harmonica. Lots of discussion about tunings and anything which, you know, as new approaches onto the harmonica is definitely of interest.

SPEAKER_01: 42:31

One of the things that you mentioned to me at some point was that you found the stories behind these players fascinating. And, you know, you were real interested in how and why they became so devoted to the instrument and how and why they, you know, took up the professional route to play. Of the people that you have interviewed, I mean, who has been a surprise to you? in terms of why they took up the instrument why they became a musician

SPEAKER_00: 42:56

I can't think of one specific person now but I'm definitely interested in that question about you know why people chose the harmonica and you know again it's partly selfish reasons so I can learn myself and I hope that teaches you know other people as well about how people have been successful with the harmonica you know what have they done to be able to forge a career with themselves with the harmonica you know and to have some success out of it and you know that definitely fascinates me and i've picked up many little clues along the way on how to do that and for most of the players as i say pretty much every interview i play along and i sort of pick out songs of theirs and i sort of i've learned something from everyone so and then to be able to talk to them about how their careers progressed and how they were able to succeed it's been uh it's been a yeah fascinating in pretty much every episode

SPEAKER_01: 43:45

do you feel like you've become a documentarian in many ways because you have brought so much out about these personalities and about their history and their background. And many of these guys, I think Rod Piazza is the one that always comes to my mind. You know, they were part of a blues scene that had never really been documented before. I'd never heard anybody talk about the blues scene in Los Angeles until I heard your interview with Rob.

SPEAKER_00: 44:09

Yeah, I think that's come out as mainly a happy accident. But as it's developed, then, yeah, I have this sense more of, you know, I mean, for example, the Phil Wiggins and he plays the Piedmont style of blues. You know, that's an example of exactly that, about really honing in on an area of the U.S. in this case, you know, and talking about that style of music. and how that scene grew up and everything. So yeah, I think it has come out like that and it's been a great joy to do that and yeah, I hope to pull it out more.

SPEAKER_01: 44:39

So, you know, it's been many years since Kim Field put out his book, Harps, Harmonicas and Heavy Breathers, I think was the title. And of course, Kim was included in your 100th anniversary podcast about Little Walter. Have you thought at all about the possibility of transposing this from a podcast into some form of a book?

SPEAKER_00: 44:59

Yeah, that's definitely crossed my mind. I'm still thinking about how to do that. But yeah, you know, I could write a book as the song goes. So yeah, at some point I would like to write a book. And anyone who has written a book like Kim are definitely high on the list to get interviewed because I think anyone who's taken the time and effort and dedication to do that deserves a lot of credit and recognition for putting the effort in.

SPEAKER_01: 45:23

Yeah, I mean, I think you and Kim and a whole range of people who have continued to be very devoted to exposing the instrument and exposing the players. And it's all been a labor of love, right?

SPEAKER_00: 45:36

Definitely. Don't do this for the money, Tom.

SPEAKER_01: 45:39

Yeah. Thank you so much for doing it. So, Neil, let's have the conversation that all Harmonica players have with one another about gear and about equipment. I know having been exposed to all of these different players, and especially considering all the research that you've done on all of the players that you've worked with, you've probably often thought, what are they playing? What are they using? You know, all those general questions. So what about you? First of all, Harmonica's Are they tuned differently? Who manufactures them? Are you playing chromatic, tremolo, the variety of harmonicas you're playing? Let's start with the instrument itself. Tell me a little bit about what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00: 46:16

Yeah, so before I answer that specific question, one of the pluses and downsides of the podcast is because I, as you say, talk to so many people and talk about all the things they use and different approaches and gear that they use, that I want to buy all this stuff, right? So I end up wanting all this different gear that I talk to these people and I research, right? So, you know, for example, I got the dm48 on the back of this which i love as i've said Yes, but you can only play so much, right? But yeah, it's great to hear what everyone uses. So as to my harmonicas of choice, for a long time I was a sort of honer guy, played the marine band, and then the crossover of recent years was my favorite harmonica. And I'm not just saying this because the sponsor of the podcast, but Seidel have definitely entered my domain. I had quite a few Seidels, but recently I've been playing the Seidel Lightning, which is a sort of top-end diatonic and it's very nice. I like that very much. So my main two diatonics are the honer crossover and the side lightning. I really like those two.

SPEAKER_01: 47:32

Is the lightning a wood comb? I'm not familiar with that.

SPEAKER_00: 47:35

No, it's a metal comb. But yeah, it's quite heavy and it's very nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 47:40

You've been playing long enough to be a judge of the quality of the instruments that were offered today. I mean, or do you feel like the quality of the instruments has improved significantly over the last 10 years, say?

SPEAKER_00: 47:52

Absolutely yeah definitely a topic I cover on here a lot the quality of the instruments since when I started playing you know in the early 90s the quality was not great then you used to be quite hit and miss when I used to buy them but now they're much better quality a little bit more expensive but I think we're all happy to pay a bit more money because the quality is better and of course we've got customizers now and people do some customization I do some customization myself not lots but enough to sort of improve the harmonica so again mainly I play diatonic and chromatic is my main. I do also own a chord harmonica and a bass harmonica, both Holners, sort of older ones. I do play, there's a little bit, the chord a little bit more, but I don't play them extensively, a little bit. The chord definitely is quite a novelty when you play it in public. People are always very interested in the chord because it's so big. Chromatics, for a long time I played the Holner Toots models. I do still play one of those, but I find them a bit frustrating that there are no screws in the replay So I've sort of moved on from now. I also hold on a Zydl Symphony chromatic and also a Suzuki G48, which is the Gregoire Moray model as well. So I have those chromatics. And I, of course, have the DM48 and the DM48X, which is the later model, which has a few enhancements.

SPEAKER_01: 49:12

And so is it your habit to take everything to the gig? Or are your gigs specific enough that you don't have to carry anything? a complete kit with you every time you go out.

SPEAKER_00: 49:21

I have my gig bag, so I just know if I pick that up, it's got everything I need and I won't forget everything. Although I don't actually take every single key diatonic with me in that bag. I have those in a separate pouch. I have most keys, but I don't have, you know, very strange keys like F sharp and things. But yeah, so my gig bag is always packed and ready to go.

SPEAKER_01: 49:41

So let's get on to amplifiers. So tell me a little bit about your setup and what you use, what you like to use, what you like to take out on a gig.

SPEAKER_00: 49:49

Yeah, so amps-wise, I've had various amps over the years. I don't go out and continuously buy different amps. I've got two main amps. I've got a small amp and a large amp for playing sort of bluesy stuff. I've got a VHT Special 6, which I've had modded for harmonica. People in the know will be aware that that's an amp which is very good for modifying, and that's why, among of the reasons it's popular among harmonic players and I also have a Weber speaker in that which I bought from the US and so I've sort of I've modded that one that's a nice little amp definitely does great sound and I've also got a Sonny Junior amp for my big amp which is a modified bassman as again a lot of people know so that's that's blues you know tube amps I've had other amps as I say but they're the two they serve me well and then I have clean amps you know because I play the sort of more folk stuff and also more acoustic sounding through acoustic amps you know I use acoustic amps and PAs for that mainly microphone wise I have a crystal JT30 that I bought from Dennis Gruening as I mentioned in the episode with him so that's a great crystal mic I have a green bullet well what was a green bullet and I feel slightly guilty after the green bullet episode I did but I had that converted to well I had the elements from that put into one of Greg Heumann's wood mics that I had made just because because they are so beautiful and I love woods, you know, and they are beautiful. So I had Greg and I took a very good element, black label elements and had that put into the wood mic with Greg's. Still have the green bullet shell, of course. I also have a bulletini that I use a little bit as well, which I also got from Greg, but I use that more for sort of the rack and things. Pedal wise, I don't use too much. I've experimented with pedals in the past. Like for example, I tried Richard Hunter's Line 6 Patches quite a long time ago now and Thank you. They definitely give you a lot of versatility in sound, but it's not something I use now. And then I use a delay pedal, as most players do. And I also have a lone wolf heartbreak pedal, which is good if you're playing through a clean amp or the PA to give you that sort of distorted sound without having to look around an amp and just, you know, if you're playing a couple of songs with that sort of distorted sound. So what is

SPEAKER_01: 52:14

your acoustic

SPEAKER_00: 52:15

mic of choice? Well, I have an Audix Fireball 5, which I use, but I also have a, you know, the usual Shure. your SM58 as well. So yeah, those two are the mainly acoustic ones I use.

SPEAKER_01: 52:27

The podcast that you did recently, the 100th anniversary podcast on Little Walter was fabulous, illuminating. I learned so many things about Little Walter that I did not know. And hearing the perspective of the three people that you interviewed was just invaluable as a harmonica player and should be heard by all harmonica players. Is your thinking that, you know, that there are other great players like that, and Toots, you mentioned earlier, you know, that's a good example, that you might be able to get a multiple interview scenario established where they would talk, where a couple different people would talk specifically about a player of that quality?

SPEAKER_00: 53:04

Yeah, I think doing the Little Walter one has definitely opened me up to thinking I should do more of the retrospectives, as I call them, and of course I've done two Paul Butterfield ones with your good self, and they were great, and, you know, I think a lot of people really love those episodes too on paul butterfield so definitely

SPEAKER_01: 53:20

well so what's the future of the podcast You've celebrated 100 installments of it at this point, which is incredible. Your 100th may have been the best one you've done yet. How do you top Little Walter and where do you go past 100? How many of these podcasts do you think you have left to do? Because it seems like there's just a new harmonica player coming up all the time that has drawn the interest of the harmonica community.

SPEAKER_00: 53:44

Well, first of all, how do I top the Little Walter episode is by I have an interview with me in the next one. It's a bit of a come down But I thought it was a good way to start episode 101 because quite a lot of people have asked about me and people have said, oh, we want to know more and more about you and what you're playing like. So I felt that it was worth having an episode about me. So people, please excuse me, the self-indulgence about having an episode about myself, but I was asked about that. So as to the plans for the podcast, then I think some of the things we talked about earlier on, having those different resources regions and you know maybe some more female players played from different countries and different genres and just carrying on trying to discover and learning from as many harmonica players as I can find you know and again I think I learned so much from each one it's a lot of work each one I often think you know should I stop the podcast at some point you know kind of takes over my life for quite a few days for each episode But, you know, I do love everyone and speaking to everyone. And despite the challenges of each one and the effort that it takes, you know, it's very rewarding. So, yeah, I'm planning to continue for now and, yeah, see where I get to on that front.

SPEAKER_01: 54:59

How has your playing been affected by all of these interviews and knowing so much more about these musicians?

SPEAKER_00: 55:05

Yeah, I think that's a good question. I touched on it earlier on. It's, you know, definitely learn something from everyone. And quite often I'll find a song from, you know, the person I interview that will become part of my own repertoire. A good example of that is from Grant Dermody, who's a great player. So his song David's Cow, which is a sort of traditional song from a sort of 1920s style, you know, that's a song that's part of my repertoire now and I'll play it. So that's quite often an obvious way is that, you know, I'll play a song that I, you know, I'll pick up on a song that someone's played and sort of add it to my own list of songs to perform. And then I think the other ways are probably more subtle. I think just listening to as much harmonica as you can is so critical in what you're learning you know i think you absorb the sounds you've got to know what you're supposed to be sounding like what you're aiming for you know obviously it goes if you're playing blues you need to listen to lots of blues and the style that you're listening for if you're playing different genres and approaching it in that way and it also helps about you know how they learned and you know how they practice and what sort of techniques they apply and then using different tunings as we mentioned as well so all sorts of different ways I think you can learn and hopefully again people find it informative to you know educate themselves about the harmonica beyond that just tutorials about how to play the harmonica I hope this kind of broader approach you know does benefit people too and on that as well I just mentioned the Spotify playlist which I often mention as a podcast and it's always listed on the podcast page so on there I see that as a really strong accompaniment to the podcast because Many of the clips that I use in the podcast, the full songs are on that Spotify playlist. So I do hope that people go along and find that playlist.

SPEAKER_01: 56:52

Well, I think the playlist has been excellent too, because you've unearthed some things that I didn't know were around, you know, either through YouTube searches or whatever. So you've expanded my listening knowledge. beyond just the podcast and the interview piece.

SPEAKER_00: 57:05

Exactly that. And then, you know, as well as different players you haven't heard, even some of the songs, like for example, we mentioned Kim Field. I was reading through his book again over Christmas, which I've read previously, but I've been looking through it too after I spoke to him. And he talks about an album that Walter Horton did with Johnny Shines. I went and checked that out and there's some great tracks on there. So that's a really good example of unearthing some real gems. And I hope, you know, there's a lot of gem songs in that playlist, which people can listen and check out. all sorts of different sorts of harmonica. Yeah, so well worth checking out. Yeah, so as well as my other plans, I mean, as I say, I'm 50 now. I was 50 last year. So I'm getting to that stage now where I'm more than ever wanting to do as much music as possible. So I want to dedicate myself to playing music as much as possible and hoping that work can take a bit more of a backseat. I'm not sure I'm quite there yet, but yeah, definitely planning to try and do as much music as possible. And I hope that includes carrying on with the podcast and learning more. And yeah, it'd be great to get over to sport at some point. as well and meet some of the friends that I've made through the podcast because I've never been across to sport so that would be excellent to do and hopefully meet you too Tom

SPEAKER_01: 58:14

Well you've certainly made a lot of friends maybe unbeknownst to you but many friends who are fans of the podcast and big fans of the effort that you put in. And it does not go unnoticed. You may not feel that way sometimes, but it does not go unnoticed. And all of us who play harmonica of whatever style are deeply indebted. you for the effort that you've taken to document all of these players. 100 players so far is fabulous and we'll all be looking forward to the next 100.

SPEAKER_00: 58:46

Thanks Tom. Again, thanks to you and I'll just put it on record here that again, you've been a great help behind the scenes, helping me source players and really been helping me with information. It's been really helpful. So thanks to you too.

SPEAKER_01: 58:58

Well, you're welcome. We're all fans.

SPEAKER_00: 59:00

Thanks Tom and thanks for interviewing me today. Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out the great range of harmonicas and products at www.zidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidel Harmonicas. Thanks again to Tom Ellis for interviewing me today. Tom has great knowledge of the US harmonica scene, and he's been invaluable to me across the first 100 episodes. And thanks again for allowing me to indulge myself by creating an episode about me. I hope the episode has shed some light on what I try to do with the podcast, what I learn from it, and hopefully help you learn from it too. I look forward to creating many more episodes. We'll sign off now with a bluesy number from one of my current bands, Rev John and the Revelations.

UNKNOWN: 59:46

Thank you.