Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Eddie Martin interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 106

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Eddie Martin joins me on episode 106.

Eddie has been described as the ambassador of British Blues, having released seventeen albums over his near fifty year career, with many of the songs self-penned by Eddie. He started out as a one-man band, but also performs as part of his own bands too. In either format Eddie makes extensive use of rack harmonica, and is one of the leading players of using a rack, while also playing some hand-held harmonica as well. Eddie gives us some great tips on playing on the rack. 

Eddie also had a two year spell in the US where he regularly played on Beale St, Memphis and Clarksdale, Mississippi, as well as time playing in Italy. 

And he regularly teaches at workshops in the UK and Europe.


Links:
Eddie’s website:
http://eddiemartin.com

Big Red Radio:
https://soundcloud.com/eddie-martin/sets/eddie-martins-big-red-radio

Harmonica Master’s Workshop:
https://www.harmonica-masters.de/en/workshops-2024/master-workshops-diatonic/eddie-martin.html

EuroBlues week:
https://www.euroblues.co.uk/blues-week-2024/

Son of Dave interview:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com/son-of-dave-interview/

Videos:
One Man Band video from Thirst album:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KK6Qr9nSugw&t=18s

Birdcage Sessions video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU87CViwfJA

Harpin’ By The Sea 2024: Breakeven Blues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S83O-scnX_I

Harpin’ By The Sea 2024: Early In The Morning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fuwgMcaJ4Q

NHL festival 2006: Queen of Spades:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zW-Y9JplJ4w

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS

Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

Eddie Martin joins me on episode 106. Eddie has been described as the ambassador of British blues, having released 17 albums over his near 50 year career, with many of the songs sell penned by Eddie. He started out as a one man band but also performs as part of his own bands too. In either format, Eddie makes extensive use of rack harmonica and is one of the leading players of using a rack while also playing some handheld harmonica as well. Eddie gives us some great tips on playing on the rack. Eddie also had a two year spell in the US where he regularly played on Beale Street, Memphis and Clarksdale, Mississippi as well as time playing in Italy and he regularly teaches at workshops in the UK and Europe. This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas. Hello, Eddie Martin and welcome to the podcast. Hello, Neil. Nice to be here. Pleasure to have you on. So you are a British player. You were born in London, I understand. Grew up in Watford and now living, I think, in Bristol, is it?

SPEAKER_01:

I actually live in Froome now, yeah, but I play in Bristol a lot, just an hour away from Bristol, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so you have got a fine reputation as a blues player, being described as the ambassador of British blues, so you've certainly had a great career now. How long have you been playing?

SPEAKER_01:

I've been playing since I was 16, so that's a long time. That's like 50 years, nearly. I started playing the guitar about a year or two earlier than the harmonica, then just sort of carried on playing them both with equal enthusiasm and further for knowledge really from about that age on 16 yeah

SPEAKER_00:

listen to your albums there's certainly plenty of blues on there but there's some you know you probably it's not entirely blues is it would you describe yourself as just a blues man or other genres too

SPEAKER_01:

No, I mean, really, in my heart of hearts, I'm a songwriter, really. So, you know, I grew up in the era of British blues rock, you know, Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin. And at the same time, I was listening quite early on to blues, electric blues, acoustic blues, but also folk music, just on the harmonica, for example. Once I discovered Sonny Terry, I traced him back to the Woody Guthrie recordings as well. You know, Bob Dylan was a big influence on my songwriting. It was still a rave of about him as a lyricist and really my instrumental skills although I'm as much of a nerd as anyone about you know I love great harmonica players and I love great guitarists but from my own point of view it was always about bringing those instruments to my songwriting rather than kind of the other way around you know songwriting wasn't a vehicle to get my instrumental rocks off it was the other way around I've always been interested in just using instrumental skills I've got to best arrange my songs that was true from right the earliest age, you know, when I was 16, the first thing I did on two chords was write a song. So I see myself more as a songwriter than instrumentalist, really.

SPEAKER_00:

Now that comes across, you write some great lyrics, and there's one you've written called Kind Lady Moon, which I believe was written for your six-year-old son at the time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, right. I was reading to him from a collection of Wessex folk tales, and it was one of his favourite stories, the Kind Lady Moon story, you know, about how in the Dark Ages there were no moon that shone over England and the moons came down to visit one night and well cut a long story short got involved in a fight with the devil and won

SPEAKER_02:

that was the very night a kind lady moon decided to come down and take a look

SPEAKER_04:

around disguised in a cloak to hide her lies yeah

SPEAKER_01:

the lyrics come from a whole wide variety of sources, really.

SPEAKER_00:

And a song I picked out from your first album, we'll get onto some of your albums later, but this is where we're talking about your songwriting. So the song Like Water, it's got real epic proportions, that song. It's kind of eight minute long.

SPEAKER_04:

Like the rapids Yes,

SPEAKER_01:

water keeps cropping up as a metaphor. for different things and uh you're on about the on the first album

SPEAKER_00:

yeah first yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah that that album i had a sort of producer angle on that one really in that in fact i was just i just mentioned rolling stones you know i grew up in the year when the rolling stones were most popular and i loved them and it was that album the um sticky fingers album which has been probably one of the most uh influential albums on my music and uh when i did the first album i had actually in my an album which is a kind of a dedication to the production of that album of Sticky Fingers

SPEAKER_00:

so clearly this is a harmonica podcast so we'd like to see how you use the harmonica in the songs that you write and the music you produce so you're an all-rounder definitely you talked about obviously you play guitar you pick that up first and then the harmonica about a year later you also sing obviously writing your own lyrics and singing those you also do a one-man band show where you do use percussion and various percussion as well so so yeah you sometimes play solo as a kind of one-man band and then you also play in a band and yet you've been in a few bands yes so you have you're probably well known for playing harmonica on a rack you know and playing harmonica at the same time although you do play solo harmonica as well but so when you started getting into harmonica were you just playing harmonica you know by itself or when did you start playing rack harmonica

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I started playing rack harmonica pretty early on as I said I was writing songs from the earliest and so the harmonica harmonica it's not impossible but it's not a brilliant instrument to write songs on and so I was using it alongside the guitar you know straight away and so I learned to play on the rack pretty well straight off you know that's not to say that I haven't also played a lot off the rack you know and enjoyed the whole world that using your hands can open up to you know the harmonica sounds that of course you can't do on the rack you know you can do everything else on the rack but you can't use your hands so that was pretty well from the earliest really and so I'll listen to the other rack players I mean there's not I hope it doesn't sound too arrogant there's not a lot that a lot of the early rack players can interest you really if you're interested in the harmonica instrument and getting the most out of the instrument so the 60s blues boom rack harmonica players tended to play quite simply you know a lot of first position a lot of blow bend stuff

SPEAKER_00:

in the sort of Jimmy Reed mould yeah a lot of people copied that didn't they and it didn't get much beyond that

SPEAKER_01:

oh right yeah the Jimmy Reed thing as well yeah that's interesting as well because that's mainly first position and second position but beautiful stylist Jimmy Reid but technically not that difficult either once you've got your blow bends down you can do it music I love that lovely Jimmy Reed, and I'd love to get into grips with that to start off with as well. Even the simple blow-bent stuff of the American folk harmonica, Bob Dylan and Woody Guthrie when he plays the harmonica. It's nice, it's interesting, and... you tend to get blues players who just want to play blues but you can learn a lot and get different sounds and different colours out of the instrument by interrogating that American folk tradition on the harmonica and you know I quite enjoy that because it's easier to do on the rack as well

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah explore your rack playing in some detail today I mean like you say quite a lot of the rack playing is pretty simple but I think your rack playing is really excellent and you know you do push it you know and you're probably one of the leading rack players I've heard certainly in this country in the UK but so yeah interested on that so you talk there about how you know the some of the rack players you'd looked at jimmy reed's an obvious example duster bennett was a uk player and dr ross and yeah and these guys so when you were learning rack earlier on you know were you learning the harmonica as a rack player or did you learn it more you know like playing with sonny terry and little walter etc when you when you started out how did you approach it initially

SPEAKER_01:

yeah both i mean i was doing both sonny terry wasn't being a massive influence but because the the hands are so integral to his style. I wouldn't try and get Sonny Terry down on the rack. I'd just play that with the hands. I think pretty early on, really, I kind of felt that the kind of rack playing that had already been done wasn't really what I wanted to do, you know, and I just wanted to push it in a different way, really. So really, for example, I love Dr. Bennett, I love Dr. Ross and Jesse Fuller and Joe Louis, you know, lots of the rack players of the past, but I wanted to do a little bit more and for example even tongue block skills weren't used by hardly any of those players you know and so the whole range of tongue blocking techniques that you can do on the harmonica I wasn't hearing them on the rack and I love those techniques you know if we get into detail the chord flutters and the slap sound and just the bigger tone of just playing single notes I wanted to do that on the harmonica as well so when I was playing in my electric three piece you know I wanted to use those techniques and get some of those sounds happening even though i was playing on the rack yeah and then after doing that for for a while i realized there was other things that you could do on the rack that i don't think anyone else had done and i had it in mind at some at some point to do as an album that focused on just the rack but um the songwriter in me has always carried on taking precedence really and i've always ended up writing albums about the songs rather than about the instrumental skills

SPEAKER_00:

when you were practicing i mean earlier on maybe when you were first learning but then since then in the whole your whole career have you practiced you know the two together and you know and how have you approached practicing the two together because you know you're doing two things at once right it's like tapping your head and rubbing your stomach right so it's difficult to do those two things how have you approached that

SPEAKER_01:

well I just started off with the simpler stuff you know doing a simple backing and then just developed technically on both and just carried on with the two really so

SPEAKER_00:

as part of that question did you get your guitar chops up to speed before you started getting more sophisticated on the harmonica and vice versa? Or were you able to develop it at the same time?

SPEAKER_01:

Both at the same time, really. I've just carried on playing, writing songs, performing, all the way through using both instruments. So they've both got technically more advanced, just kind of organically, really, over the years. ORCHESTRA PLAYS And that's involved both copying the greats, you know, on both instruments. I play both acoustic styles and electric styles that's meant both of those do you know so for example finger picking on the guitar and pre-amplified styles on the harmonica playing them both and just developing them as and then trying to find new areas as well for example like simultaneous soloing I've done that quite a bit really I suppose and I'm still finding new things to do now with the rack and the guitar together

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so picking up on that point like you say there's various approaches you can make so were you playing the unison or the notes on guitar on on harmonica, that's something that you do. There's a song called Yo-Yo Blues where you do that. So that's really effective, obviously. But then you're doing the same thing, which when I'm trying it, that's doable because you're doing the same things. It's doing the two different things that I find really difficult to do. So any tips about how you're able to get your head around that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I mean, I think some people find it harder than others. It's that, you know, can you pat your head and rub your tummy at the same time? Some people have more difficulty doing two things at once with their brain, and I do seem to be quite lucky in that respect, you know, that I've developed it quite a lot.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, obviously you've practiced it a lot as well, haven't you? I mean, that's a crucial thing, right? You've been doing it for years, right? So you've really got it down, that you're comfortable, that you can play the really good, solid rhythms on the guitar while she's soloing on the harmonica, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

One of the things that I do mention when I do courses on this is that it's really important that you get a good rack as well quite early on in the game because you can't play accurately on a rack harmonica with half the racks that are available you've got to find the right rack for you it's got to be a stable framework you know that doesn't lead you leaning forwards or doesn't move when you're playing and that sounds kind of obvious but it's surprising how few racks can actually give you that you know it's changed a bit there's better racks available now than there used to be but I used to modify racks when I that was when I did early on, I suppose this may have helped me early on as well, is that I did modifications to the racks that I bought off the shelf to make them more reliable as a framework to play more technical stuff on the harmonica.

SPEAKER_00:

So I understand your rack of choice is the Holner Flex rack now. Is that still the one you like?

SPEAKER_01:

It's changed quite a bit. This is kind of a difficult subject really because the odd thing is that as I've got older and more experience as a player, without me thinking about it now, I don't press down on the rack as hard as I used to my mouth tends to hold the harmonica and I don't have to press down so much on the actual metal frame of the rack so I can now play on sort of cheaper and not very good racks as long as they're the right heights I can play on a cheaper one that hasn't got for example all of the all of the belt and braces fastenings of the flexi rack than I used to now that the flexi rack is out I do recommend that for people who are starting off on the rack because it's got the strongest framework it doesn't move you know and it's also the most adjustable of the racks because the physiognomy thing is making the angles of the harmonica and the height of the harmonica on the frame match your body you know your own physiognomy is one of the key things really in starting off with the right sort of gear you know to develop your skill as a rack player that's what the Flexi rack sort of ticks all the boxes in really

SPEAKER_00:

yes So another question about the rack, which often you see is that it gets in the way when you're trying to sing. I saw a video of you playing, it was a good few years ago now, where you kind of had your rack on an angle, so you had a space for your mouth to sort of go around it, so it wasn't getting in the way. So how do you deal with singing while you've got the rack there?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, the rack is kind of, I suppose it's like an inch in front of my chin, so that I can lift my head up to a microphone and sing, and then the harmonica is actually near enough to the microphone if I'm using the same mic as the vocal mic for the harmonica also, that it picks up the harmonica as well. So yeah, it doesn't get in the way, but it's close enough to the zone to be picked up by the vocal mic too. So you've got to try different heights of racks. Some of them are too low. Some of them are too high. So you've got to find the right one for you. It depends on the dimensions of your neck.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, brilliant. Yeah. So, I mean, again, you're probably best known for playing harmonica on the rack, but you do play off-rack harmonica. There's a great song called Stilce Facing that fox was a sort of Sonny Terry thing. So that's a great example of you playing by holding the harmonica in your hands. What proportion, would you say, if you've ever measured it, do you play on the rack versus playing a kind of solo piece on harmonica?

SPEAKER_01:

It depends whether you're talking about in recordings or live. So I've got about three or four solo harmonica or harmonica and vocal tunes that I do in the solo show where I don't play guitar at all. And when I'm playing in the band, there's only one number that I actually take up. the harmonica out of the rack and I do a kind of a show off thing really where I play the guitar electric guitar just with my left hand and I can do a solo with the guitar in just my left hand and holding the harmonica with my right hand it's just a show thing you know I like quite an important part of the blues performance tradition that you've got a showman gimmick you know what can you do that nobody else does so I love that you know going right back through history you know right through Charlie Patton it was one of the first ones to play the guitar around the back of his head you know

SPEAKER_00:

definitely I talked about that in the last episode when we were talking about a lot of the greats in Los Angeles and they all had these kind of tricks which you know frustratingly that's often what people talk to you about afterwards and they forget about your wonderful playing but just remember you're kind of oh that was an amazing trick you did there yeah so yeah but yeah definitely need to do it yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah especially if you're competing with lots of different acts you have to have your USP you know from a marketing point of view that was where the history of it comes from but I can't quite like that tradition really

SPEAKER_00:

no definitely entertaining yeah

SPEAKER_01:

yeah entertainment and so when i'm playing the guitar with with just one hand and playing the harmonica with the other it's from creatively too because you you'll play things with that sort of solo that you wouldn't you wouldn't have played with playing on the rap for example so they might start as a as a gimmick but they they can all end up in a valid sort of creative avenue you know once you embark on that route you'll find things that you want to say sort of musically that you that that limitation sort of leads you down you know developing.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah and singing as well it's clearly you sing as part of your act and you sing your own songs. You were singing possibly first where you started singing at school and is that the first thing you started doing musically?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah I guess so yeah I was in the choir and used to get picked to do solo bits in some of the school productions. My voice is kind of pleasant but it's not an amazing voice you know I wouldn't say that. It's interesting when you look at good singers and harmonica players because one of the universal questions and never-ending questions of harmonica students to professional harmonica players is, how do you get the tone? How do you get the tone? And one of the things that I've realised over the years is that quite often if you've got a good tone as a singer, you'll have a good tone as a harmonica player. People like William Clarke, you know, got a great, lovely, bassy, plummy singing tone, and surprise, surprise, that's just what happens with his harmonica tone as well. So I think it helps if you're a singer as well, if you're a harmonica player. If you think about the tone that you're making with your voice, it relates to what you do with a harmonica. And if you're blessed with a voice that has a beautiful tone, then the chances are that's going to give you a head start in terms of getting a good tone on the harmonica.

SPEAKER_04:

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SPEAKER_00:

And so you turned a professional I've got here at age 18. So is that right? Have you always... earned your living as a professional musician?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I was semi-pro from the age of 18. Well, I had periods when I was just playing, just doing gigs, but I had day jobs through till about 1997 when I left all the day jobs behind. And that was when I started to get nominated for a few awards and the albums and the reviews were coming in and they were doing quite well. And so I made the leap of faith to become a professional musician and back then. So I carried on as a semi-pro all the way through until then, really.

SPEAKER_00:

So the first album I've got you down for is Solo in Soho. Was that your first album?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I did an album only on cassette. You know, you get called I'm the band, but somebody once brought one to me at a gig, but I haven't got any anymore. That was kind of before the first CD, but my first CD was Solo in Soho, yeah.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_00:

So as we've touched on, you've had this combination of doing solo shows where you're playing, you know, as a kind of one-man band and also with a band and then a couple of other bands. So this first one was solo. So when you started out, you know, what was your intention, at least initially, to be a one-man band?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I've always wanted to do all the... I've always wanted to do everything at once. I've always had a band. In fact, one of the reasons why I played the rack a lot to start with was because I was looking forward to getting a band of finding musicians in Bristol when I first moved to Bristol in 1979 I wanted to get a band together but I couldn't find any musicians and I couldn't find any good harmonica players so I was writing songs and working out arrangements to songs with a trio in the back of my mind but because I couldn't find any musicians I was writing the parts on the rack harp and guitar and my girlfriend was a drummer so that was quite handy so I would even keep a basic rhythm going with my feet from that early stage you know writing songs thinking about the band and it was only really from doing that that I realised after a little while this doesn't sound too bad on its own you know I quite enjoyed then doing solo shows but I always had in mind doing both solo shows and playing in a band and once I started playing in a smaller band you know a trio or a four piece it wasn't long before I realised I really wanted to do work with a bigger band as well and so you know I've to do that over the years as well and it's got the stage now where I've got three different outfits my solo show my trio blues rock and then kind of more traditional bigger band

SPEAKER_00:

So you did I think your next album Blue to the Bone in 97 that was with a band so that you quickly moved from the solo to there and then you sort of moved between the two right and a few albums as you went forward Yeah You also had your own record label, Blue Blood Records, yeah? So when did that start, and when did you start releasing the albums on that?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, Blue Blood, I wish I hadn't called it that now, because what I meant was Blues in the Blood. That was kind of a shortened version of Blues in the Blood. But it kind of stuck as Blue Blood Records. It was basically because I realised that it wasn't that difficult in those days to find... it wasn't that difficult to get a record label going and luckily for me I got enough interest from a distribution company who had worldwide distribution proper records they were called and so it didn't phase me the idea of producing my own music because I really wanted to have that creative control anyway and as long as I could get the money together for a recording I had already a distribution outlet interested in what I did so I Ended up with a record label, a proper record label, you know, which was doing the business.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you release most of your albums on your own record label?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they've always been released only on my own label, actually. And to start with, that was all I did, just produce it. So it was kind of a self-release label. But I did actually take on, because I had the worldwide distribution, I took on a couple of other artists as well on the label, distributed their stuff, before realising that I wanted to devote all my time to the stuff that I was writing really. So

SPEAKER_00:

this involves producing your own albums and obviously were you, the recording and everything, were you going to the same recording studio presumably and then you released it on the album, how did all that work?

SPEAKER_01:

I had to make the choice about what recording studio I was going to use, what musicians I was going to use, what recording techniques, find a good engineer that I liked to work with. You learn as you go through as well. I was lucky enough that on the first band album I did, Blue to the Bone, I had the great Pete Brown of Cream fame and Dick Hacksaw-Smith and one of their mates, Mudge, who was a great keyboard player they all co-produced it with me and that was great because they know their stuff you know they're sort of veterans of the British blues scene with loads of great albums and great creative experience in the studio for decades to help me but after that with one exception I produced them myself and chose the engineers and studios with the best production values in mind that I could afford and that's carried on through really

SPEAKER_00:

So a really interesting thing you did as well I think around in 2000 you released an album called Live in the USA and you also had a residence in the US so you were there for two years playing the Chitlin Circuit from a base in Texas and you had a one man band residence in Beale Street in Memphis so I assume this album came from this time so tell us about those couple of years you spent in the US doing that

SPEAKER_01:

yeah within two years I did lots of different things it's amazing thinking back on it really because the Live in the USA album was my British band that I first went over there with. We were lucky enough to have quite a long tour around a lot of the east of America. We didn't go west, but we went as far north as New York, New Jersey, and as far south as New Orleans and all around Texas. So the Live in the USA was basically collecting live recordings on that tour.

UNKNOWN:

MUSIC

SPEAKER_01:

While I was on that tour, I met through the promoter in Texas other musicians on the Texas blues scene. Great. It was just a fantastic time. But as well as meeting other great players and guitarists and harmonica players, I met some great rhythm sections. And so I met one rhythm section that I then formed a band with. So I called them the Texas Blues Kings because that actually means something in Texas. There is an award called the Texas Tornado Award. which has given a voted-in award for the top blues artists, going right, right back, like a mini sort of statewide handies award, if you like. And these two guys that I started playing with were both recipients of the Texas Tornado Award. So we formed a band. And as well as me playing in the States with them, I also brought them back to Europe to tour with me for a few years after that when I came back to the UK. But also, as you're saying, at the same time, I also carried on playing solo shows in America even after I'd moved back to the UK yeah I mean I had residences in Clarksdale in the great Bluesbury cafe we're still going in Clarksdale now but also I had a residency on Beale Street in the Black Diamond which was amazing experiences yeah

SPEAKER_00:

so how did they react to a Brits playing their their music their blues music over there

SPEAKER_01:

the experience was a lovely it was a very warm reaction to what I was doing you know the American blues scene was so much more more sophisticated, full of so many more sophisticated players than the British blues scene had to offer at the time, really. You know, I was over there as a humble student of the music, so it was great to go down well and get good audiences and to get some repeat bookings and to play in these iconic locations for the history of the blues, you know, Clarksdale and Memphis, Beale Street, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Here's a word from my sponsor. Looking for a new harmonica? Or maybe you just want to replace the replates on an existing harp? Theharmonicacompany.com is the place to go for all your harmonica needs. They stock a wide range of harmonicas and accessories from all of the major manufacturers and always ensure that they ship quickly, offer excellent customer service and are super competitive on price. Go to theharmonicacompany.com and enter the code HAPPYHOUR7 at the checkout to get an additional 7% off the already low prices. have a question or need advice just drop jonathan a line on sales at theharmonicacompany.com and he'll be happy to help the discount code and email address are also listed on the podcast page and you released a couple of albums called blues took me by the hand volume one and volume two which are kind of compilations of your previous 25 years output so they're good albums to check out so

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

So another really interesting project you had after obviously being in the US in 2000 there was going to Italy and spending some time in Tuscany. You had a band called Big Red Radio, an Anglo-Italian project where you mentioned working with bigger bands. So this is one of your bigger bands. You had a sort of gospel choir with you and you played over there in Italy and I guess around Europe and things, did you?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, that was a fantastic project in loads of ways. It was kind of shorter lived than we wanted it to be in that... One of the problems with the logistics of big bands is taking them on the road is really expensive. And the blues circuit isn't the best paying circuit, you know, if you compare genres. So we didn't really end up touring it as much as we'd have liked. You know, we were all really happy with the album. In fact, I think it's one of the best things I've done, really. yeah i mean but it started with the production idea really i just had an idea a sound in my head that i hadn't heard anybody do in the blues influence songwriter world and i had an idea of um using traditional blues instruments like the you know the harmonica and the national steel guitar but also bringing in the dynamics of rock music getting charismatic arrangements that take it from the big sound of a rock band in full volume and full pelt right down to the intimacy of a solo acoustic sound. Part of the idea of the sound also was having a really good gospel choir as well.

SPEAKER_04:

I

SPEAKER_01:

tried a few things in the UK, but I couldn't quite get it how I wanted it to be. And luckily, a fan who became a really good friend, an Italian guy who was in Bristol and he used to come down and see me play a lot, and a guy called Bruno Bacci, who actually is now a superb luthier. He makes guitars, Bacci guitars in Italy. But he really wanted to help me realise the idea. get that sound happening Eddie said if you're having difficulty getting this together in England Eddie let me take you to Italy and we can do this and that's exactly what he did

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so you've released albums all through the years. I've touched on just a few. I think you've released 17 in total. Your last couple of albums, one called Thirst in 2019, we mentioned earlier on. That's a really good album. I enjoyed that one. Interesting, the song One Man Band you do on there is you playing harmonic on a rack and guitar and singing, but with a band. So why wasn't that a solo song?

SPEAKER_01:

It started off as a solo song, actually, and I have got a recording of it as a solo song, but I've been a way of releasing it yet yeah after i'd written it i thought they're quite catchy these riffs and they would work with it what i thought was kind of a zz top sort of texas boogie backing as well so that was that was how that came to pass really

SPEAKER_04:

everybody loves a one man band

SPEAKER_00:

And then I think your latest album was 2021, was released, I guess, during the pandemic. It's called The Birdcage Sessions. So was this kind of you recording all solo at home when you were locked away at home during the pandemic?

SPEAKER_01:

Exactly, yeah. So for years I've been buying bits of recording equipment, learned how to use recording software. And so, yeah, it was the first album that I've actually engineered of my own music, The Birdcage Sessions. I call it The Birdcage Sessions because I was kind of releasing a little bird of of a song every every couple of weeks from the cage of the lockdown

SPEAKER_00:

this album won the european blues album of 2021 from uh from mojo magazine

SPEAKER_01:

yeah i was really really really chuffed about that because tony russell i've known tony russell for a long time and he's such a quality blues journalist and i've respected his his work for years you know he co-authored the penguin book of blues recordings and it means a lot to me really what he has has ever had to say about any of the albums that I did. And so he's Mojo's blues journalist. For him to put the album in the best releases of 2021, when I looked at the list, I realised that it was the best UK, also the best European blues release of 2021 in his list. So that was very, very humbling and lovely to receive that.

SPEAKER_00:

And there's a beautiful song on there called Happy Broken Free, which I guess is one what you wrote, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

yeah, I wrote all the songs on there.

SPEAKER_04:

I'm happy yeah

SPEAKER_01:

happy broken free that sort of summed up the the first few months of the lockdown for me is that you know like other musicians we lost our money so i was broke uh no gigs but it was a beautiful weather we had in the first few months of lockdown didn't we and uh

SPEAKER_03:

yeah

SPEAKER_01:

we're lucky enough to have a nice garden here so i was out in the garden it couldn't go anywhere because the lockdown but the the garden was lovely and i was happy broken free for the first few months of the lockdown so that's hence the song.

SPEAKER_00:

So what about the decision about which songs to use harmonica on because not all your songs have harmonica on you know so it's just whatever fits the song is it?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely and your ideas can change as you're recording things you know so for example on Birdcage Sessions I had harmonica on lots more tracks than I actually used in the end. You toy around and tease around with arrangements and put tracks down especially on that album where I had the luxury of being able to do it all at home. I could put down a lot of different tracks of instruments that I played myself and some of them I thought no the harmonica is not really doing anything on that track so I took it off and you know vice versa.

UNKNOWN:

So

SPEAKER_00:

So when you're recording an album, do you always play the harmonica on a rack or do you play it separately because, you know, you're in the studio, right? You don't have to play it on the rack.

SPEAKER_01:

So it all depends on the production idea. So sometimes I'm going for a really live feel, a live sound, and so I'll use the rack. It can be a bit of a pain recording the rack harmonica live. You know, if you're doing a vocal track and you've got bleed into the harmonica mic, it limits your options when it comes to mixing it. But other times you just want to have that raw, live sound. For example, I think You Thrill Me, I think... I did that one live on a rack harmonica, even though it was an amplified harmonica, and that's quite difficult to do in a studio, really, to get a good vocal sound that isn't too coloured by the proximity of the rack harmonica mic, you know. It sounded like you're singing like a robot. You can get a lot of bleed into the sounds. But it worked quite well on that track. But other tracks, for example, I might have had a particular idea of a harmonica sound where I knew that I'd need to just play that out of the rack. So, for example, my big band album, Looking forward looking back I really wanted to try to do the old chess trick that Little Walter did of recording breaking up the microphones around the studio and using a big cavernous warehouse at the bottom of some concrete steps, which is one of the tricks that Chess used to do. They'd record an amplifier with a close mic, and then they'd also have a mic at the same time recording the echoey sound at the bottom of a flight of stairs. So this is a production idea. And I was quite pleased with the results. I went for a little ultrasound in a Chess studio. A track called Supermodel. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So as well as all your own albums, you've also played with lots of great names. I've got a list here. You've collaborated with at least John Mayall, Peter Green, Buddy Guy, Taj Mahal, Honey Boy Edwards as well. So have you played, performed with these guys? What's your connection with them?

SPEAKER_01:

Lots of different stories there. So, yeah, I played with Honey Boy Edwards and supported him. It was a great experience, fantastic experience, both in Bristol and in Italy. I used to work quite a bit with Dick Hexel-Smith, a great saxophone player, you know, central to the whole British blues explosion, the original one, in that he played with John Mayle and Coliseum and DHS. And so working with him led me to work with Pete Brown from Crane. and uh oh did yeah i've played with um with john male as well separately you know with paul jones as well fantastic paul jones

SPEAKER_00:

peter green

SPEAKER_01:

yeah peter green was on this on the album i didn't actually play with peter green but um he and i played on the same album that pete brown produced which was blues and beyond and that was dick hexwell smith's kind of solo album So yeah, lots of fantastic players over the years.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and so you've also toured many countries, got you down as having played in 35 countries, so you've been all around and playing. And you mentioned earlier on that you do lots of teaching, lots of workshops, so this is something that you definitely like to do, right? So you've appeared at the World Harmonica Festival in Germany, where you've been a judge for the blues competition. This year, I understand in October, end of October, you're appearing at the Harmonica Masters workshop in trottingen the hona festival there is that that right

SPEAKER_01:

that's right yeah so i'm doing a course actually on rack harmonica this year over in germany yeah looking forward to that

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so there we go anyone wants to get full details from you think they can go along to the harmonica masters workshop you're also uh appearing at euro blues which is a uk workshop um that runs for a week in the end of july i think you're doing a separate harmonica class and a separate guitar class there

SPEAKER_01:

yeah i'm not sure i over the years i taught harmonica and also slide but I think this year I'm just doing harmonica actually that one that's usually the first week in August in north of Gloucester yeah

SPEAKER_00:

yeah yeah so that's Euro Blue so you got these coming up and you appeared at the great Harping by the Sea event in February near Brighton this year there's some great YouTube videos which Russ puts on yeah and so yeah people can check you out playing live yeah there's some good ones on there you playing music I've been at the NHL Festival in the UK as well. I think I saw you there in 2006. I've got a clip of you playing the Queen of Spades.

UNKNOWN:

.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, lots of festivals and the workshops, so yeah. So you like to do this teaching and workshops. That's something you really like to share the knowledge.

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely. I love sharing it and I love being able to pass on the knowledge, meet young, new players, not necessarily young players, old players as well. People who have got a passion for the instrument or people who are open to me trying to get them inspired and passionate about the instrument and helping them along with their discoveries. And I love it. Yeah, I love doing it. love teaching

SPEAKER_00:

Do you do private teaching as well as workshops?

SPEAKER_01:

I've got a few students I don't like to take on too many really I don't want to end up just being having my time dominated by teaching but I just like to do a little bit of it just to help people along

SPEAKER_00:

Cool and you mentioned awards so you won in 2018 the Best Solo Acoustic Artist in the European Blues Awards and you've been nominated for Best Blues Harmonica Player and Best Blues Guitarist in the British Blues Awards and I think numerous times since 1999 yeah so you got some awards under your belt all helps with the profile especially early on does it sounded like when you were starting out getting those awards you know helped kickstart your career

SPEAKER_01:

yeah yeah that's right that really did help to start with when you can start putting a few reviews quotes from reviews it makes some of the promoters pay you a bit more attention that happened quite early on and getting nominated for some of the awards sort of helped kickstart the decision to go pro yeah

SPEAKER_00:

so a question I ask each time it is if you had 10 minutes to practice what would you spend those 10 minutes doing so maybe have this as a focus on the on the rack playing

SPEAKER_01:

so improving the rack playing one of the things I like to practice at the moment is I've been playing guitar and harmonica solos like single note solos on the guitar and doing the same notes on the harmonica for quite some time you know so one of the things I might practice is playing both together just doing scales for example and the scales I'll do would be the scale will be the mixlodium mode those are the main ones really I use but I'm practicing harmonizing as well so if I'm doing a single note on the guitar I'll play the harmonica a third note above it I haven't actually recorded this at all yet or even done much of it live but that's one of my new practice goals is to be able to harmonize with myself doing simultaneous soloing do you know what I mean

SPEAKER_00:

yeah so it's an exclusive you're heard it here first, so are you using a different keyed harmonica there than what you'd normally use, so you can harmonise a kind of third up?

SPEAKER_01:

No, I'm just using the usual harmonica, so usually second position harp is the starting point, but of course you can play the major scale at the top end of the harmonica easier than the bottom end, so mainly using the third interval, so if the guitar's playing the one, the harmonica's playing the three, the third note in the scale. And they're just developing a harmonising technique. It's just an interesting sound. I haven't heard anybody do it before, so I'm just interested in what it will sound like, and so that's kind of a bit of a rehearsal goal.

SPEAKER_00:

Sounds good, look forward to that on your next album. So, have you got plans to release another album? I think it was your, the Birdcage session was your last album, was it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. It's funny because at the end, although I released the Birdcage session at the beginning of lockdown, I'd come of lost my mojo a bit with the end of lockdown I think a lot of musicians did the longer it went on the more difficult it got to carry on playing and I didn't write for 18 months I'm usually pretty prolific I'm usually writing most of the time and I actually took up painting towards the end of Covid and I spent a lot of time painting during the day rather than playing any instruments so it was kind of a mental block developed about playing my instruments for a while but I'm overcoming that now and I am writing more songs again now so I'm hoping that by the end of the year I might have a repertoire of songs to take into the studio.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah and of course there's a challenge that you know I'm sure you don't sell CDs like you used to right because nobody buys CDs very much these days they're sold streaming so there's that side to the challenge as well right you don't really make your money back so much but do you still see it's important to you know having an album out helps you get other work and gigs and things is it still even at your stage of your good career?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not really worried so much about about that really.

SPEAKER_00:

You're very well established right so you don't necessarily need it so much do you? I don't actually push

SPEAKER_01:

for lots of gigs anyway really at the moment but I probably will from next year. You know personal circumstances change. I've had a lot of family illness that's kept me at home as well lately. I've got a really poorly brother I look after a couple of days a week. He's in a wheelchair and so these sort of sometimes your own personal circumstances conspire to stop you getting out on the road as much as you were and as you get older you get a bit more discerning about where you wanted to devote your effort you know I'm not going to sleep on floors and tour in the back of transit vans anymore no definitely not but yeah so I will be doing more stuff next year yeah

SPEAKER_00:

And so let's get on just finishing off talking about gear then. So we've already talked about harmonica rack, so we covered that one. So what about your harmonica of choice? Which types of harmonicas do you like to play?

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm a honer man and I get on well with a whole different range of honer harmonicas. So I'll play a marine band straight out of the box. I love marine band deluxes. I love the crossover. Those are the main ones I play really, you know, crossover, rocket, marine band and marine band deluxe.

SPEAKER_00:

And do you play any chromatic at all?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I've got chromonic as I've got in lots of different keys, but three, three, but of course you don't use the button on the rack. That's one of the restrictions, you know, you're playing a guitar, you can't push a button in as well. I play that on its own a bit. I love, I love the chromatic. I have used the chromatic in played in the rack, you know, just third position style.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

What about different positions? You know, obviously you talked about first position being a pretty uh standard use on the rack from jimmy reed style and you talked about second position are you the you know do you use those two mainly any other positions

SPEAKER_01:

yeah first and second are my most used and a little bit of third position but yeah that's that's my main thing is it's the first and second position really

SPEAKER_00:

what about you know with your songwriting if you say writing a minor song do you think about a earlier mode fourth position you know do you think of it in that terms when you're thinking about the harmonica as well and what might fit you know to fit at the songwriting

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I mean I do think about the scales and the keys but the minor blues I don't use very I haven't written many many minor blues but I'd use third position for that if I did and you know when I'm jamming in a minor blues for example I'd use third position more yeah that's the main thing really

SPEAKER_00:

and what about any overblows do you use any of those it's funny I've

SPEAKER_01:

just got back into overblowing again I haven't really I don't think I've used anything on anything I've recorded but I do like the overblow on on six, you know, to get that minor third above six. That's the main thing, really. I'd have to reset up my harps if I wanted to do more overblows using some of the other overblow notes. But yeah, I'm a fan of overblow on six increasingly in my later years of playing.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you do your own setup of harps?

SPEAKER_01:

I'm probably a bit lazy, much lazier than I used to. So if there's a bad buzz or, you know, a tuning issue, then I'll do it, especially if I'm on the road. And that's I've got my little repair kit to do those sorts of repairs but I've never set up a harmonica just for overblows for example because overblows hasn't really been part of my technical toolkit that much really so I think if I wanted to use more overblows I would look at how to you know modify my harps to do that myself yeah I'd have to read up a bit on it so much expertise out there you can tap into there

SPEAKER_00:

yeah it's all time though isn't it I'm the same I'm always I love doing the harp maintenance but it just takes time What about your embouchure?

SPEAKER_01:

I like the range that both give you. So I just intersperse the two, really, just for the different vocabulary that it brings to your playing.

SPEAKER_00:

And so amplifier-wise, I think clearly you play kind of acoustic and electric, right? So are you using a tube amp when you're playing electrified, you know, when you're playing harmonic on the rack?

UNKNOWN:

MUSIC

SPEAKER_01:

yeah I mean I must admit I've become less interested in amplified rack harmonica playing over the years Just because it's just such a hassle having to set up two rigs all the time. I'm getting old. I don't want to bring two bloody great amps to every show, you know. So I tend really to play acoustic harmonica just in the vocal mic if I'm doing a band show as well as playing acoustically when I'm doing a solo show.

UNKNOWN:

.

SPEAKER_01:

But I love amplified harmonica and I'm always experimenting with sounds. You know, every now and then I get a chance of just being a harmonica player in someone else's band, which I love to do. But also from a recording point of view, I do a lot of amplified, just solo harmonica recording.

SPEAKER_00:

Any particular amps you like to use then?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I've got a range of them. I've got the Fender Bassman, and I've got a little mod on it to make it sound even crunchier. I've got a Fender Twin, which has got a Tweed modification on it so that it sounds very old. I've got a lovely little Fender Vibra Champ, which sounds lovely. And I've got a whole range of vintage microphones that I love to use. I just bought a new one a couple of weeks ago. So I'm still into all the nerdy stuff of... you know, of how to get a good sound. And, you know, I try new stuff that comes along. Up till now, I'm still a fan of the old school approach to amplified harmonicas, the gear that you use. I love the sound of the old mics, really.

SPEAKER_00:

Are you a fan of the Crystal or the CMs?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, yeah, both, really, and ceramic. You know, they've all got their purposes and they've all got their sounds that sound great for me. You know, I love the sound of them all. Lately, I've just got a, you think of it as a Shure 5 21 which is an early it's neither a crystal nor a cm uh or a cr or a ceramic but it's a different element in these early sure vocal mics that sounds great for harmonica and so i'm pleased to have just got one of those microphones to just to play around with at home and maybe show a few students what it can do as well

SPEAKER_00:

yeah nice to hear you like your gear what about any effects when you're playing a harmonica

SPEAKER_01:

no not really no no just and maybe a little bit of slap echo but not a big fan of the effects approach to harmonica playing, although lots of players do it to great effect, and I wouldn't be too purist about it. Anything that makes good music is fine, and if you use pedals, then that's great too.

SPEAKER_00:

When you're singing, as you say, using the vocal mic, is that... Are you using a particular mic there for harmonica? Is it just the vocal mic and an SM58? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

just the SM58, just straight through the vocal mic here. Although having said that, now I've got this new old school chore. I might try that as well a bit more, just as a new experiment. Of course, I love, although I suppose it's a pedal in a way that I like, I'm a big fan of Son of Dave. Son of Dave, like me, he's a songwriter first and foremost, but he uses the harmonica to great effect, using loops and lots of different percussion techniques Your queen Call me the king and, you know, I might even practice a little bit every now and then using some effects on the harmonica just from a songwriting point of view as a soloist, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I've interviewed him on the podcast. He does some amazing things, you know, and uses the harmonica so effectively and he does a tremendous job, yeah. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

great, love

SPEAKER_00:

it, love it. So, great to talk to you and thanks so much for joining today and sharing your wisdom on rack and many other things about harmonica and music. Thanks, Eddie.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks, Neil. It's been an absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_00:

Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Thanks to Eddie for joining me today. What a long, distinguished career he's had and continues to have. Very humble with it too, and definitely knows his stuff about the harmonica. And great insights into how to play the rack harmonica from one of its leading players. If you want to learn more from Eddie, then check out his upcoming workshops at the Euro Blues Week in the UK or the Harmonica's Masters Workshop in Germany this year. The links for those are on the podcast page. And thanks to my sponsor, the Harmonica Company. Remember, if you are buying any Harmonica gear, then supporting the sponsors also helps out the podcast. And remember the discount code HAPPYHOUR7, which is shown on the podcast page too. We'll sign off with a song from Eddie's award-winning Birdcage Sessions album, featuring his great guitar and rack harmonica playing. This one's called Kitchen

SPEAKER_04:

Boogie.

UNKNOWN:

MUSIC PLAYS Bye.