Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast
The podcast is sponsored by Seydel harmonicas. Check out their great range of products at www.seydel1847.com.
If you would like to make a voluntary contribution to help keep the podcast running then please use this link: https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour.
Visit the main podcast webpage at: https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com/
Contact: happyhourharmonicapodcast@gmail.com
Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast
Isabella Krapf interview
Isabella Krapf joins me on episode 116.
Isabella is from Vienna, Austria, where she started teaching and performing concerts in her late teens and has had a career in the harmonica ever since.
Isabella is a collector of harmonicas and puts on exhibitions. She played a part in keeping the Seydel factory in business when it was looking for new investors in the early 2000s, by ordering 1000 ‘boomerang’ harmonicas.
In 2011 Isabella was asked to visit North Korea to teach groups of music students there to play harmonica. A group later visited Austria and performed some concerts in Europe under her guidance.
Isabella also got to know Jerry Adler towards the end of his life and compiled an album for him and played in a concert with him and Howard Levy in 2006.
Links:
Website: https://www.isabellakrapf.com/
Videos:
Boomerang harmonica:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n7hfbd9BQ0
North Korean ensemble at Trossingen in 2013:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCoL33Y0-24
North Korean group playing at Bristol in 2012:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dI7k5s0uVw
The Bossa Nova Company:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uujLkY_iCfo
Pablo Fegundas:
https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=792673521775393
HUK virtual workshop:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1LjuOwqaic
Historical diatonic video:
https://www.facebook.com/denise.uthoff.3/videos/1020566385917951
Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com
Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB
Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ
Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
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Blue Moon Harmonicas: https://bluemoonharmonicas.com
Isabella Kraft joins me on episode 116. Isabella is from Vienna, Austria, where she started teaching and performing concerts in her late teens and has had a career in the harmonica ever since. Isabella is a collector of harmonicas and puts on exhibitions. She played a part in keeping the Seidel factory in business when it was looking for new investors in the early 2000s by ordering 1,000 boomerang harmonicas. In 2011, Isabella was asked to visit North Korea to teach groups of music students there to play harmonica. A group later visited Austria and performed some concerts in Europe under her guidance. Isabella also got to know Jerry Adler towards the end of his life and compiled an album for him and played in a concert with him and Howard Levy in 2006. This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas. Hello Isabella Krapf and welcome to the podcast.
SPEAKER_04:Hello, thanks for having me today.
SPEAKER_02:So Isabella, you're Austrian and you're living in Vienna, is that right?
SPEAKER_04:That's right, I live in the 9th district of Vienna in the street where Schubert lived.
SPEAKER_02:So, of course, Vienna's got an amazing musical history and, you know, one of the central places for classical music. And I think is that what you started out playing when you first started in your younger days?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I come from a classical household and my mother is a pianist. I heard all the classics like Mozart, Beethoven, Bach, Schumann. So that's how I grew up, basically.
SPEAKER_02:So piano was your first instrument?
SPEAKER_04:That's right. When I was like six years old, I learned piano for my first instrument. And it was just classic, classic music.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but I think I was reading that you felt a bit restricted from the classical side. You wanted to improvise more, even at a young age, did you?
SPEAKER_04:No, I played classical for a very long time and I just started in my late teenager time to listen to jazz music or music that was not restricted. It was basically jazz music that I listened to.
SPEAKER_02:So going back to when you started harmonica. I understand you got your first harmonica, which was a diatonic at the age of eight.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I got a Hohner Educator. It's not a blues harp, it's like before you played a chromatic. It's like a chromatic without a slide. So that's how I started and I wanted to play the Blue Danube Waltz, all of it. So my parents bought me a chromatic harmonica for my 10th birthday.
SPEAKER_02:Great, and you got started from there. And then you were still playing different instruments when you were young, where I think you played some percussion, trumpet, obviously the piano, still singing.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I had singing lessons, I had education in percussion instruments, classical percussion, marimba, timpani, that kind of things, and I played trumpet.
SPEAKER_02:A great grounding then in the old music. So what made you want to focus on the harmonica?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I got a harmonica when I was, like, young like maybe eight years or so from my grandmother and I always played and I thought everybody could play the harmonica and then I found out that's not so and I was very talented with the harmonica I would say but I didn't have a teacher and then like when I finished school I saw there were so many pianists and so many singers and everybody's struggling because here in Austria it's insane and so I decided to to try on the harmonica, to make a living with that.
SPEAKER_02:And were you playing classical music on the harmonica at this stage?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, at the beginning I was playing, like, I would say classic and easy listening, like Chattanooga tutu and Strauss waltzes and some stuff that you could play at a birthday party if somebody has an 80th birthday or something. That's how I started. That's...
SPEAKER_02:And I also understand that you had a teacher who told you you couldn't make money from playing harmonica, and that gave you some extra motivation.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, right. So the headmaster of our school, he asked me what I would like to do when I finished school, and I said, I don't know, maybe with music. And he knew I was playing harmonica, and he said, well, you cannot make money by playing harmonica. And then I came home and I thought, that's it, making money by playing harmonica, that's a great idea. He later came to my concerts and he said i always knew it
SPEAKER_02:fantastic yeah so you have managed to to make um your living out of harmonica since then yeah you've been working uh exclusively what is it is it yeah mainly all the harmonica have you been other instruments too as part of that or
SPEAKER_04:well the thing is i have a lot of harmonica students and and that was from the beginning when i started to teach when i was 19 years old right after school i had a lot of harmonica students i was studying at the adult education center and it was insane how many students I had and in between I also learned the concertina so sometimes I play concertina and have several concertina students and some piano students but mainly it's harmonica I'm just doing the other stuff for for fun
SPEAKER_02:yeah so again in such a musically rich place as Vienna you know why do you think the harmonica really grabbed people again I imagine there's lots of people playing all sorts of classical you know traditional classical Well,
SPEAKER_04:the harmonica, like in most European countries, the harmonica was a very popular instrument in the old days, like in the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and also in Austria. So I know that in the 60s we had big harmonica contests and there were like 30 trios and a lot of quartets and ensembles just with harmonica. And that kind of died down. out now it's not I mean it's not that so many people are playing harmonica and most of them are you know like a hobby player they have it at home and play now and then a little bit but the thing is that we don't have many teachers in Austria maybe like three or four in all of Austria so even if there are not so many people playing the harmonica for me I don't see it that way because everybody is coming to me So I have many students, even if there are not so many players out there.
SPEAKER_02:And so how did your harmonica career develop then? You know, you're talking about you started teaching a lot when you were sort of 19. How did it go from there?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I started at the Adult Education Centre and I was a lousy teacher at the beginning because I didn't have a teacher. And for me, it was totally clear how to breathe, how to play, how to make a single note. For me, it was never a problem. It It was really difficult for me to see how other people are struggling to play the harmonica and have breathing problems and all these kind of things. I would say the first half of the year I was a really lousy teacher. And after that I started to play concerts, but it was also a lot of classical concerts. But when I was very young, like 20 years old, I played in the Musikverein. That's the most famous concert hall in Austria. like Carnegie Hall, but it's in Vienna. There I played when I was like 20 years old and that was amazing to me. So that helped me a lot also with the rest of my career, just to play there and everybody knows you're playing there and that was very good. Yeah, and then it was teaching and concerts and then I had the interest also in the history and I started collecting and I was starting to have exhibitions with my instruments and my knowledge. So that's how it started.
SPEAKER_02:Great, yeah, we'll get into some of those topics. Before then, so were you playing with orchestras in these venues or in small ensembles?
SPEAKER_04:It was different stuff. I was playing with a guitarist, with a pianist, I was playing with orchestra and there was one piece of music, it was like a little symphony and it was written for me.
SPEAKER_03:Wow. with
SPEAKER_04:a string orchestra. So that was written for me and that was again in the Musikverein.
SPEAKER_02:So fantastic. Yeah. So, I mean, you've done some, some amazing things as well. We'll get onto some of those. So you talked about being very knowledgeable about the, you know, the history of the harmonica and you've got your exhibitions and you've got a great harmonica collection. So we'll cover them. But before then, we'll talk about your involvement with the, the Seidel factory. So I understand that when the Seidel were, you know, the Seidel factory was struggling and almost going out of business, which was what around?
SPEAKER_04:No, it was, it was 2004.
SPEAKER_02:You, went and visited the Seidel factory, which I guess isn't that far geographically from Vienna, is it?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's quite a drive. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So you went there and you had lots of the sort of archives, the documentation from the factory and this sort of thing, yeah? And so, yeah, so tell us about your involvement with the Seidel factory there when it was struggling, yeah?
SPEAKER_04:No, I had this idea to make the boomerang again, you know, the boomerang-shaped harmonica. And it was a limited edition, a thousand pieces, that helped Seidel to find somebody who would save them and buy them. I didn't buy them. I didn't save them. But I helped them to have a little time while doing the boomerang so they could find somebody who would finally.
SPEAKER_02:Some investors, yeah. So I was actually talking to Bertram Boettcher from Seidel the other week. And yeah, we were sharing this. So you made an order for, I think, a thousand of these boomerang harmonicas.
SPEAKER_04:also my idea to have the Seidel signature as a stamp at the back of the boomerang and that's what you have today also on the Seidel harmonicas you have the signature of Seidel at the back
SPEAKER_02:So tell us about this boomerang harmonica I'm aware of the shape of it, I've never actually played one myself and you bought a thousand of them do you still have 999 of them? I have
SPEAKER_04:maybe 70 left
SPEAKER_02:Great, so you've sold most of them Yeah, so if people want to get one, they can, well, I guess, Seidel will sell them and get one from you. So, yeah, so tell us about the boomerang then.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it was made for the Australian market. It was boomerang shaped. But, I mean, there were several boomerang harmonicas by Seidel. Not everything was boomerang shaped. But this is the most famous one with boomerang shape. And it's from the 1920s originally. Yeah, it was my idea to make that again to help the factory.
SPEAKER_02:There's the fact that it's boomerang. boomerang shapes obviously the kind of two halves of it point you know towards your face like a boomerang does that have any advantages to playing or anything anything else about it
SPEAKER_04:um I mean I don't I don't think so I mean, there were so many instruments, so many harmonicas, who had really insane shapes, like the Zeppelin harmonica, and there was a Cuban cigar harmonica, and there was a harmonica with bells and with strings and with whatever. I mean, the harmonica was... I think there's no other instrument in the world that has so many shapes like the harmonica has.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So it was more, as you say, for the Australian market, it was the kind of, you know, the shape of it was the, you know, just appeal to that market, yeah. There's nothing else.
SPEAKER_04:Harmonica is a great, it was always a great marketing gag with harmonicas. I mean, they would also make a tremolo harmonica and they would write a ragtime band on it. I mean, it's a tremolo harmonica, it's not really good for ragtime.
SPEAKER_02:So the boomerang harmonica, when you throw it away, does it come back?
SPEAKER_04:No.
SPEAKER_02:That's a shame. That would be really cool, wouldn't it? Never mind. I know. You can work on that in the next edition. I understand you've got a great knowledge of the history of the harmonica factories and Klingenthal, which is where the Seidel factory is. So tell us about that and your research into the history of the harmonicas. Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:well, the beginning of the harmonica was in Vienna because the oldest harmonica factory was in Vienna. It's called Wilhelm T. And even in Hofburg... We have a music collection there and there is the oldest chromatic harmonica that I know. It's from 1850s and that's from Wilhelm T. So it's a very old thing. And the factory building from Wilhelm T. is still there. And he was very famous for making the best harmonicas. So the quality was really good. And he was famous for making ivory harmonicas. So there was completely ivory. The comb and everything was covered. And it was carved with an incredible... So it was really for a high-class customer. And it was also for Franz Josef the Emperor I think he also had these harmonicas. And Horner sent people to Wilhelm T. to check out his secrets, you know. So he was really, really famous. And unfortunately in 1922 the factory closed down and that's it with harmonicas in Austria.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So, yeah, so interesting, you know, I've talked to, you know, Holner and Seidel on here about the history of weather factories. So, yeah, so it was Austria which started that. And so, again, it's, again, not a million miles away, right? So that sort of region is very rich in the harmonica history, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. And then came Klingenthal. So, and after that came Trussingen. And without the GDR, I mean, if there wouldn't have been the wall, I think we would have had another situation also with the GDR. Klingontal.
SPEAKER_02:I understand as well, as part of the Zeidel link, is that you also helped with them taking on the Renaissance harmonica with Doug Tate, handing over that. Is that something you're involved with?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Douglas Tate, he wrote me, and I went there. He was very, very sick at that time when I met him. That was the reason why he looked for somebody who would make his Renaissance harmonica in the future. So, yeah, I went there and I talked to him and then Seidel was the new maker of the Renaissance harmonica, that's right.
SPEAKER_02:You sort of approached Seidel, did you, with the idea of taking on the Renaissance, did you, after talking to Doug Tate?
SPEAKER_04:No, Doug Tate asked me if Seidel could do that and Seidel sent me there.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Okay. yeah superb so yeah so again you've got you've got all this um this history of the harmonica and zeidel and um so yeah good stuff i mean so you say you have um you run exhibitions in uh in vienna there of harmonica expedition so you've got like a kind of uh you know a big harmonica collection that you built up over the years yeah
SPEAKER_04:yeah i have more than 2 000 harmonicas
SPEAKER_02:oh wow
SPEAKER_04:no that's not that's nothing i mean the real collectors from from the states the big ones they have like 10 000 and they they told me that Chinese are not even counting. So this is nothing. I mean, I have other things to do, and it's also a lot of money. I mean, if you're collecting everything, then it costs a lot of money. But I have enough interesting harmonicas to make little exhibitions if somebody wants to make something like that. I can provide instruments. My first harmonic exhibition was for one and a half years in Vienna in the 5th district. That had a lot of visitors because it was a very special thing and we had concerts with that and Martin Hefner would come from Trussingen and tell us about harmonica history and it was very nice.
SPEAKER_02:Very good. And do you have photographs of your collection that's available to see anywhere?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I had a lot of photographs on my old website. And then there were nice people who were taking these photos without telling me and would make nice music clips on YouTube without ever mentioning my name. So I was not really thrilled about that.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Because it's not on your current website, is it, the photos of your collection? No, no.
SPEAKER_04:I downsized it because, as I said, the only thing that happened was that people used my photos without ever mentioning my name. And it was a lot of megabytes that I had to pay. So I downsized and if somebody needs something, I send it to them or they can come here and look in my archive or whatever.
SPEAKER_02:here's a word from my sponsor looking for a new harmonica or maybe you just want to replace the replays on an existing harp theharmonicacompany.com is a place to go for all your harmonica needs they stock a wide range of harmonicas and accessories from all of the major manufacturers and always ensure that they ship quickly offer excellent customer service and are super competitive on price go to theharmonicacompany.com and enter the code happyhour7 at the checkout to get an additional 7% off the already low prices Have a question or need advice? Just drop Jonathan a line on sales at theharmonicacompany.com and he'll be happy to help. The discount code and email address are also listed on the podcast page. So another fantastic thing you've done, you've been involved in, going back to your teaching, is you've been involved with teaching some students to play harmonica from North Korea. So yeah, tell us about that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that was in 2011. And I was teaching at the University of Music here in Vienna also at that time. So the North Korean embassy approached me and they told me that they wanted a teacher in North Korea actually. And it was clear that I would go there, but also that students would come here to Vienna in exchange also. So I knew it was a big project. I knew I had to learn the language. It was so nice just to think about that having these young people from North Korea coming here, seeing everything here, making music with me, and that was very tempting. So I went there, to North Korea, first time in the summer of 2011. Fantastic,
SPEAKER_02:and I believe you visited North Korea four times over a couple of years, weren't you? Yeah, that's right. So was there a tradition of learning the harmonica in North Korea, did you see? Was it something that was popular there?
SPEAKER_04:Well, in In fact, they have manufactured harmonicas in North Korea, but only tremolo ones. I have one at home of these. By the way, the harmonic collectors I know don't have this one. So this is one piece that I have that they don't have. But I brought with me when I came there actually the chromatic harmonicas and also the ensemble instruments like the bass and the chord harmonica for the first time. So this will be on my gravestone. She brought a chromatic harmonica to North Korea.
SPEAKER_02:They were playing as an ensemble, weren't they? Is that what you were teaching them to play as an ensemble?
SPEAKER_04:All of my students were musicians and it was a big choir there, but they were also playing accordion or string instruments or all kind of instruments, also saxophone and e-guitar and everybody was a musician there. So it was very easy to work with them.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so most of them hadn't played the harmonica before, had they not? At least, maybe only the tremolo.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, they have only played North Korean tremolo harmonicas
SPEAKER_02:so far
SPEAKER_04:so that was yeah
SPEAKER_02:so you took all the instruments for them to play so I think you had a group of sort of 90 students you didn't take that many harmonicas for them to play did you?
SPEAKER_04:I had more than 90 students I had like all together it was 120 but it was over 4 wizards that I had done but it was always more than 100 when I was there every day so no we arranged them to get harmonicas from different factories. One factory was not enough for this amount of harmonicas, I have to say.
SPEAKER_02:And I understand the conductor over there, North Korean conductor, spoke good German, and that's how he was able to translate for you. Is that how you managed to communicate, at least for the first?
SPEAKER_04:A lot of conductors speak very good German because they were in university as students in Germany or Austria. So that's why I met lots of musicians and conductors who speak very good German. But at the end, I had to learn Korean because there were many situations where I was without anybody and the student was telling me something and I didn't understand anything. So I learned Korean. I wouldn't have learned Korean if there was somebody with me all the time. It's an insane language. I wouldn't, I mean, really. I'm glad it's over.
SPEAKER_02:But you managed to learn it well enough to communicate and well done doing that.
SPEAKER_04:No, I learned, first of all, I learned just how to teach because when you teach, you're always saying the same sentence, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:So I learned like 50 sentences just I needed for teaching and then I learned how to order food and I learned how to talk about my family or what I do at home or what I have on my home bees or whatever. So I can still not talk about, I don't know, difficult topics, but I can survive there with what I can say. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Well, I have a friend, he actually went on holiday to North Korea a few years ago, you know, and he really enjoyed it. He likes to go to these far-flung places and you probably can't get more far-flung. So yeah, no, he really loved it. I think he had to have a sort of, you know, an escort with him most of the time, but he really loved it there. So yes, I think it's maybe more accessible than some people maybe believe yeah
SPEAKER_04:well i had a work visa i mean i spent a lot of time there and and they didn't have somebody who was with me all the time i mean i had to talk to the to the students i mean yeah
SPEAKER_02:as well as you going over there then also as i think you said a group i think of 15 students came to stay with you for what like a year or so was it
SPEAKER_04:uh one and a half years
SPEAKER_02:all together fantastic yeah so and therefore you were teaching them and they were sort of you know you're practicing every day and yeah how was that
SPEAKER_04:so the whole thing was it was more than two years just North Korea for me I mean I was there and then I came back and they were there and they were here in Vienna they were at my apartment every day and they were in my living room they were on my computer and we practiced and we arranged stuff and I sent it over the rainbow So that's something we rearranged here in my living room and they love to play jazz. So, especially the girls, they really love to play jazz. So, we were at the World Harmonica Festival in Trostingen, and the girls were all playing in the jazz category. And they did quite well. I mean, it was really good.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so they were listening to jazz then in North Korea, they were familiar with the music and everything.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:They have a lot of music in North Korea. They have the old traditional Korean songs like Arirang. They have kind of, it sounds like Russian songs, I would say, with a big choir. And also they have film music, and they have pop music, and they have rock music, and they have the Korean way, I would say. But they also know a lot of classical music. They also know some jazz tunes. They know everything. Yeah, great. And
SPEAKER_02:again, I was reading that, you know, apparently they were highly dedicated, they were practicing about eight hours a day and they were, you know, really dedicated to it, yeah?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. coming all the time because it was too much.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's all in your apartment as you say, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Did you manage to find a better venue to practice in or is that all you had?
SPEAKER_04:No, at first they were living in another house, in a house in Vienna and there they had the problems. When they were living at my place, I mean they lived in an apartment next to me and in another apartment in my house so that was not a problem but like when they played in this house house, in the garden, all the neighbours were annoyed by it. It was all day long.
SPEAKER_02:All day long, yeah. Great, great dedication. Good to hear.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Then you saw me too, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I saw you too there as well, of course. So, yeah, so I was there in Bristol at the National Harmonica League festivals. You mentioned they also went, well, they entered the competitions in Trostingen, you're saying, was that the same? And they did a concert there as well, did they?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_02:And they also played a concert in Austria, in Vienna.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, we played several concerts. We played in Trostingen a concert and we played in Vienna, we played in Graz. We played in whatever was possible in this time, we played concerts.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, fantastic. Was it good, you know, quite easy to get the concerts, you know, that nice, interesting angle to it?
SPEAKER_04:Oh yeah, everybody was interested in the concerts with them. And we had a very good program. We had Austrian songs, we had jazz, we had North Korean songs. We had the songs that would be played in the country here in Austria, like polka stuff. And it was a great program that we had. Walser Amorosa, that's from the Edition Hohner, that was printed in the 1960s from Hohner for Harmonica Ensemble. And I'm sure it today nobody knows this piece. I'm sure it's not played much because you don't get the sheet music and it's not so easy to play it. It's quite virtuose. So we also did the old Hohner sheet music that we got.
SPEAKER_02:So what happened at the end? Have your ties with North Korea now ended or are you still in contact?
SPEAKER_04:Well, the thing is I worked a lot there when I was there and also if you come back, it's different to get your contacts again and to keep it up here. And also the other thing is I had a lot of work hours there. It was so many students. It was insane. And I'm getting older, you know. And also the time when they were here, I had nothing else. I was just taking care of them and showing them everything in Vienna and practicing with them every day. And so for me, it was a feeling that I had to come to an end because I have other things to do and I wanted to start other stuff. And yeah, that's the reason. So it was a great time. It was the time of my life. I did a lot for culture, did a lot for peace. These people are amazing. I'm happy for every day that we had together, but it was time to move on.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, fantastic. Great stuff there. Well done. That's an amazing thing to have done. So another thing, picking out of interest with you, is that you became good friends with Jerry Adler, who was Larry Adler's younger brother, of course. Right,
SPEAKER_03:right.
SPEAKER_02:So did you meet him first when he was 87 years old?
SPEAKER_04:Right. So Jerry Adler wrote a book. It was his biography. It was called Living from Hand to Mouth. That came out when he was like 87 or 86. And I read the book and I wrote him an email. And then we wrote several emails and he wrote emails. And I said, I would like to meet you. And he said, And he said, yeah, sure. And the thing is, he didn't mean it. So he was very surprised when I showed up. But then on the other hand, he was very happy. I spent like 10 days with him in 2005 in Milwaukee. He told me every story from Hollywood, from his time on the cruise ships, from his brother, as he started harmonica playing. He played for me a whole Gershwin concert with a play along, just for me. And I spent every free second with him. I went shopping with him. I helped him with the groceries. So it was a once in a lifetime experience. And I took all the old reels and vinyl records that he had and tapes with me and made a double CD for him. And in 2006, we had a presentation for the CD in Chicago. So I played with him and Howard Levy was there also. He also played. And Jerry Adler read from his book.
SPEAKER_00:We in this business are absolutely nuts. We're nuts to be standing up here on the stage doing what we do without having egos that stretch to eternity. This is true. And without this ego, of course, we wouldn't be able to do what we do. And every once in a while...
SPEAKER_04:And it was a really great thing, and it was basically his last concert.
SPEAKER_02:Great, yeah, so you played at this concert, and that's the Green Leaves of Summer song, isn't it, that
SPEAKER_04:you sang? Yeah, he played that with Nelson Riddle, and I played that with my quartet. It's the same arrangement like from the record, from the Nelson Riddle record. I wrote it down. And he was very happy with my recording, so I was very proud of myself that Jerry Adler liked my recording and how I play, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, fantastic. So Jerry Adler is obviously not as well known as Larry Adler. So they were both, obviously you started playing harmonica when very young and Larry Adler at the same time then, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, Jerry learned it from Larry. And there was even a time when they performed together in theaters. Larry was going to London and Jerry was staying in Hollywood. He was in Hollywood, actually. And he was playing in lots of movies. You would be amazed how many movies you could hear Jerry Adler. And sometimes when I saw a movie, an old movie, I was like, oh, this is... I'm sure this is Jerry Adler. I know it from the sound. He met all these amazing Hollywood stars, and he had a very amazing life till the end, I have to say. We'll
SPEAKER_02:talk some more about your playing then. So we talked, obviously, when you were younger, you played classical, but then as you got older, well, you liked to play bossa nova. BOSSANOVA
SPEAKER_04:I was going to Brazil in 2019 because Pablo Fagundes invited me. He's one of the top Brazilian players. We played in several jazz clubs there. Pablo also has a place where you can have concerts. Then there came COVID. So I wanted to go back to Brazil, but then there was no way. But this Bossa Nova thing that really stuck with me. So like last year, I founded a Bossa Nova company. And we started in a little club, music club, and every content was sold out. So I called the theater that's not far from my place, And I went there and I told them, well, we have this concert, Bossa Nova. We are the only Bossa Nova group in Austria. So I got a very good contract with this theater. So in 2025, we have a big Bossa Nova show, like four times a year in this theater. And I don't have to take care of the promotion, social media. This is not my thing anymore. So the theater will take care of everything, which is great. And they have a sound engineer. have the best microphones they have everything there so this is this is a really good thing for me now
SPEAKER_02:superb yeah so um so tell us about your approach to uh to playing bossa nova music on the on the chromatic you know I've had some players from Brazil and we talk about the Choro so yeah it's a great it works so well doesn't it on the chromatic
SPEAKER_04:yeah I mean I really love Bossa Nova and also in Austria I mean most of people if you ask them what is Bossa Nova they wouldn't know what it is but if they hear Girl from Ipanema then they like the song and they know the song so they don't know what style it is but it works very good in Austria and it works very good on the chromatic and I'm totally in love with this style and I found everybody in the Bossa Nova group I found on Facebook so we have from the music university we have a Facebook group here and when you're looking for musicians you can write in there that you look for musicians for Bossa Nova for jazz whatever you want and then you can make a casting and then you find the best groups whatever you need
SPEAKER_02:and so you're releasing an album I believe, in September this year with the Bossa Nova Company.
SPEAKER_01:That's right. That's our first album. Hey, what's happening, y'all? Jason Ritchie from Blue Moon Harmonicas, and I'm here to tell you that Blue Moon Harmonicas are the way. You can customize them yourself, or you can get Tom to do them. The website is a rabbit hole. We're talking about custom combs, custom cover plates, throwbacks, refurbished pre-wars, double reed plates, anything you can imagine, aluminum, ABS, plastic, phenolic resin, wood, any kind of comb you want, any kind of cover tom halcheck's your man he's got you
SPEAKER_02:great so you got this boss number you're also playing in a in a duet with a guitarist yeah um a hungarian guitarist
SPEAKER_04:no i was playing uh with uh this hungarian guitarist um he was he was my main guitarist for several years
SPEAKER_02:I believe you've also done some sort of harmonic of a health and run some sessions with people with, you know, with breathing difficulties, long COVID, asthma, this sort of thing. So is that something else you've been involved with?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I am at the rehab center in Austria, which is very good. It's called Dobbelbad. Um, it's not only COVID people, but it's also people in the wheelchair. And I'm there as a, like breathing, I'm doing like a breathing therapy with the harmonica. I mean, I'm a harmonica teacher. I have no special education for that. So I don't know how to, how to say it different, differently, but they, they asked me if I can do something like that. Well, at first, um, the, like the, they have a music therapy there and, um, the person from that department wanted to take harmonica lessons from me for harmonica therapy that's how i call it she came to my to me and we had like three lessons and then she said no i can never in my life learn what you can that you can you look at the person and you know what kind of breathing difficulties they have what kind of technical difficulties what what's wrong with with the whole technique i can never do that you have so many i mean i've been teaching for 28 years so they said you have to come usually they're very strict if you don't have a certificate for I don't know what you need for that but I don't have it so we did a test like a test session Test therapy. And it was so good that I got a contract there. So I'm teaching breathing therapy on harmonica at the rehab center twice a month.
SPEAKER_02:Great. So yeah, you're still doing that. And are you really seeing some benefits for people who've got these sorts of conditions playing the harmonica?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, the thing is, if you have breathing problems, for whatever reason, there are many reasons for that. There are some kind of machines where you blow in and then there comes a number and then... They say, oh, today your breathing is not good. But this is dull and it's not really interesting for you and you hate it. Especially when you're there in the rehab center. Like if you had a very bad accident, you were there for half a year. So you don't want to blow into a machine. So the harmonica gives you the opportunity to find out about your breathing, to improve your breathing and to make music and to work with your brain And that is so many benefits from the harmonica. So that's the main thing. It's a lot of benefits that the patients there have while on rehab.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, yeah. And like you say, if nothing else, it makes the breathing exercises more interesting. And so, yeah, hopefully encourage them to do more of those, yeah. Have any of your students become decent or good harmonica players in this class?
UNKNOWN:No.
SPEAKER_04:For me it's enough if they say this is good for me, I love it, I love it, I do it every day and I like to continue when I'm at home. because for instance if you're in the wheelchair it depends on how your accident happened but your hands are very weak for most of the wheelchair users the hands are very weak and they can still hold the harmonica even if they cannot play a flute because the fingers are not like they were but they can still play harmonica and they can still hold it and they can make music and so for many people with disabilities the harmonica is The last instrument, they can learn. That is great. I mean, that's better than nothing, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, definitely. Yeah. So, and other areas of your teaching, you've done lots of teaching, obviously, through your career. And I believe you have two students who've won world titles. Is this at Trossingen?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, right. That's right. They were from North Korea.
SPEAKER_02:Ah, they were North Korean. That's great. And they won two of the titles, yeah. And so obviously you have private students now. You're still teaching group lessons. Are you still teaching at the Austrian University, did you say?
SPEAKER_04:I don't do that anymore because they were so lazy. Because I was a side instrument, you know. And so they were like violinists or music teachers or whatever, pianists. And they needed it for the studies to have a side instrument. That was, for me, that was really bad. I mean, they didn't take it seriously. And for me, that was frustrating. And yeah, so that's over.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, great. But you've also, you know, you've done some writing, you've written for the American publication Harmonica Educator. Right. And you've written, you know, other articles, and so, yeah, you're actively involved in writing.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You played in various countries, you mentioned a few. You've also played in Morocco, obviously, in Chicago, you talked about, Germany, the UK, and, yeah, so you, anywhere else exotic you played?
SPEAKER_04:Brazil, yeah. In Estonia.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you've got around with the harmonicas taking you all around the world. So a question I ask each time, Isabella, is if you had 10 minutes of practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?
SPEAKER_04:At the moment I'm playing at the Fox Opera, so I have to practice Ligeti. And the harmonica is tuned in B flat, so this is terrible for me. That I have to always practice, because I need it for the opera. Yeah, I practice from pieces I have to play that are in my program right now. The difficult parts... like from bossa nova stuff or osho stuff i just play practice the difficult parts several times and I love to practice with play along because then you have the right mood and the right so the right tempo and everything and you can you can also play I practice a lot with improvising therefore also use play alongs yeah I practice every day but in summer there were some days where I don't practice and if I if I have a workshop in like a three days workshop I don't in practice because I play a lot with my students and I don't need to practice then but yeah I practice for with a program that I have to play right now that's what I usually do
SPEAKER_02:yeah well yeah what's coming next yeah that's always a good way what's coming
SPEAKER_04:next right
SPEAKER_02:yeah so there's a you did a workshop for Harmonica UK a few years ago recently
SPEAKER_04:no it was last year
SPEAKER_02:last year yeah last year and yeah so that yeah that one you focused on a lot of basics you talked about breathing so you've got this approach to and theory about breathing on the harmonica yeah so tell us about
SPEAKER_04:that yeah for me it's breathing out breathing in and I don't like people who blow and draw or whatever because that's too much and the thing is that in the end you have to breathe through the instrument and if you blow and draw it's too much and maybe you're breathing altogether is very bad and the thing is if your breathing is not good and you always have the problem like you feel like suffocating i mean you can't you cannot develop the peace because then the peace comes Whatever. Because you're suffocating, you're fighting with your breathing and then you cannot do anything with peace. But if your breathing is perfect and you feel really good while breathing through the harmonica, then you can really perform. And that's the difference. And most people, they have a lot of breathing problems usually. Like they draw a lot of notes and then they are like full with air and they don't know what to do, how to release the air. And then the music is not legato and not round and some notes are loud because they just have to release air and whatever. So the breathing is the main point when playing harmonica if that's not working then you cannot really play
SPEAKER_02:yeah so obviously filling up with air in the harmonica is a common problem especially like second position but even so it's just a case you think of getting rid of the air quickly on the breathing out part, is it?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's not only that. I mean, it's like most people really suck the harmonica. They have too much breathing dynamic. And you can even hear people who, when they breathe out, it's a soft note, and when they breathe in, it's much harder and louder than the breathe out note. So the thing is that the breathe in, the breathe out note is not... the same dynamic for many people who play and that is a problem. It's very difficult to play smooth on a chromatic or on a harmonica with soft breathing in, soft breathing out and so that you have a good feeling for your breath all the time when you're playing. So whenever I make a workshop this is my main focus and it's the most important thing. And most people have problems. And next year I'm going to Germany. I'm having a workshop there. And that will be the same thing, I guess.
SPEAKER_02:Great. So we'll go into the last section now and talk about the gear that you use. So first of all, talking about your harmonica of choice, I believe you like to play a Suzuki Chromatic 16-hole?
SPEAKER_04:A Sirius, right. A
SPEAKER_02:Sirius, yeah. And that's a 16-hole, is it?
SPEAKER_04:I have the 14 hole but I also have 16 holes but I play I mean the 14 hole is is enough I mean Jerry Adler or Larry Adler they just play the 12 12 hauler
SPEAKER_02:yeah
SPEAKER_04:so yeah
SPEAKER_02:but yeah you like those you like those uh those 14 holes yeah
SPEAKER_04:right 14 hole minimum yeah
SPEAKER_02:do you still play diatonic harmonica at all
SPEAKER_04:uh yeah Actually, I had a workshop in February for diatonic harmonica. Even in the diatonic harmonica field, there are a few teachers only. So they begged me to make a diatonic workshop. I have two students that are now finished with harmonica education. And they will take over the diatonic workshops now.
SPEAKER_02:Great, and what you teach in diatonic, is that it's melodic stuff or bluesy stuff? I
SPEAKER_04:mean, the thing is, what the people don't understand is that in reality there is no blues harp. Blues harp is a technique. Because it's a diatonic harp and if you play blues or not, that's up to you. It's not the harp. And you have to have a very good feeling for the response of the reeds to play blues or a diatonic harp. And if that's not there, you cannot play blues. And so if there is a beginner workshop, it's not about bending. It's about the breathing technique. It's about playing single notes. It's about playing straight notes. It's about whatever. So that's the main focus.
SPEAKER_02:Great. And I understand as well you also, as part of maybe your harmonica collection, you do some harmonica maintenance and some technical work.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I repair harmonicas. But I don't like it. Because, I mean, my students have so many problems with harmonica and I have to repair that and put on new valves and sometimes they make something stupid, like they drop it and then the slide is, you know. And I don't like it, but I have to repair it. But I have historical instruments that I play like sometimes in museums, and that's when I also play diatonic harmonica. There is also a video from, that's on Facebook somewhere, where I play different diatonic harmonicas, because I'm very interested in the style. Like a hundred years ago, how did people play harmonica? Because we have a lot of photos, also from Austria, like from Anton Kratky-Pasik, he was the first harmonica virtuoso in the world, we have photos from 1860s, yeah? 1860s. Where he is holding like a few harmonicas. But how did that sound like? That's interesting. He didn't play blues because there was no blues around in Austria. And I know from old programs that he played classical medleys. And he switched to other keys, harmonicas. So that's what I tried to play in this video. So I play historical diatonic harmonicas also in the Indonesian tuning and in the Irish tuning and in minor tuning. And also I have one with bells that I play. Yeah, so it's a kind of diatonic historical harmonica show that I sometimes do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, fantastic. Yeah, so you've got all these different tuned harmonicas, yeah?
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, that answers that question. So do you use any overblows at all when you're playing?
SPEAKER_04:No, I don't. I mean, I'm not a blues player. There are others who can do that. I mean, there are so many harmonica players and everybody has their special field. And I think that's good. So everybody can... For me it's a historic instrument with a diatonic and when I play chromatic I play mainly bossa nova and at the moment ligetti. So that's the thing.
SPEAKER_02:What about your embouchure? What do you like to do? Tongue blocking, puckering or anything else?
SPEAKER_04:I only do tongue blocking when I need octaves or something.
SPEAKER_02:sure yeah and um what about you know amplification um i think obviously you're playing mostly clean yeah
SPEAKER_04:i have a sennheiser md 421
SPEAKER_02:that's the the microphone yeah
SPEAKER_04:that's my microphone and um that is that is the best one i also can speak with that i can sing with that and play harmonica and it works for for everything so that's what i would i use for my concerts
SPEAKER_02:and what about amplification, do you go through the PA or do you take an amp with you?
SPEAKER_04:No, at the Fox Opera there is no it has a very good acoustics so at the theatre they have their own system and at the music club they have their own system so I better stick with that because that's in stereo I don't want to take the effort to put a heavy amplification there and it's in the basement and I don't want to go there with all the stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you're playing mainly acoustically and again picked up by microphones yeah yeah right so when you're not doing that do you use any effects at all any sort of reverb or delay at least or
SPEAKER_04:I do I do a very little reverb but not too much the thing is if you have quite good legato then you don't for me if somebody has a lot of reverb that's suspicious because if you're playing sloppy and you're playing like without legato and then the reverb helps a lot you know but if you if you're playing smooth then you'll need just a little reverb and that's it I mean sometimes it also helps if I put up the bass and put down the heights that's what I do but I try to make a very natural sound like for the bossa nova I mean if you play like the old style blues, you want something else, right? But for what I play, I try to have a natural sound and that's it.
SPEAKER_02:The opera thing is
SPEAKER_04:extended in the next year.
SPEAKER_02:That's in Vienna.
SPEAKER_04:All the three people who are playing with me in the opera are my students. So if one of us is sick, they cannot play this piece tonight.
SPEAKER_02:So people can see you playing that in Vienna, can they? Are you doing that regularly over the next year or so?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's next year again in 25. It's in the opera. The thing is called The Moon Wears a White Shirt. And it's a ballet, a modern ballet evening. And this one piece that I'm playing is from Ligeti.
SPEAKER_02:Fantastic. So
SPEAKER_04:modern music. And then we have the Bossa Company. We have the big show coming up. We have the CD coming up. We also plan to go back to Brazil maybe next year or something. Yeah, whatever comes. I mean, I had a lot of adventures already in my harmonica life. I'm open for whatever is coming, and I'm looking forward for new adventures.
SPEAKER_02:Fantastic, yeah. Maybe you'll get a call from another foreign country to go and do some teaching.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So thanks so much for joining me today, Isabella Krapf.
SPEAKER_04:Thanks for having me, and it was a pleasure to be in your show.
SPEAKER_02:Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Thanks again to Isabella for joining me today. Tremendous work with the North Korean students. Be sure to check her out if you're ever in Vienna. Thanks also to DC Capella for supporting the show. And also thanks to Herbert Quelle for the donation to the podcast. Good to hear from you again, Herbert. I'll sign off now with Isabella playing Manja de Carnaval.
SPEAKER_03:Manja de Carnaval
UNKNOWN:Thank you.