Ross Garren interview

Ross Garren joins me again on episode 122. 
Ross lives near Los Angeles, where he has established himself as a leading session musician for harmonica recordings on movies, including Marvel’s Logan and the new Joker film, as well  on albums with numerous pop artists, including recently on Beyonce’s album, Cowboy Carter. 
Initially a piano player, Ross came to love the harmonica from the age of twelve and plays a wide range of harmonicas, from diatonic to chromatic, bass, chord and other types. 
Ross plays in the roots meets electronica duo The Sheriffs of Schroedingham, and has just released a self-produced ambient album called Of Winds and Reeds and Very Old Trees. He also recorded the harmonica for a Bob Dylan biopic coming out soon.

Links:
Website:
http://www.rossgarren.com/

Selection of session recordings:
http://www.rossgarren.com/recordings.html

Bandcamp release: Of Winds and Reeds and Very Old Trees:
https://magneticvines.bandcamp.com/album/of-wind-and-reeds-and-very-old-trees

Harpsmith custom harmonicas by Kinya Pollard:
https://harpsmith.com/

Gamechanger harmonica:
https://bushmanmusic.com/shop/bushman-harmonicas/game-changer-harmonica/

Simple Mics:
https://simplemics.com/

Videos:
John & Ross Present: 'Caldonia' (feat. Nic Jackson):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTQ0QrHhcwA

Blue Rondo A La Turk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ceFONN_Mcs

Sous le Ciel de Paris, Pomplamoose ft. Ross Garren
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vol9dZ-t93s

Bass harp:
https://youtu.be/WgfKEE1QPiA?si=bEmyT8VPqwnjDt30&t=112

Royal Albert Hall from 2023:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cumStSUVX9w&t=134s

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
--------------------------------
Blue Moon Harmonicas: https://bluemoonharmonicas.com

Chapters

• 1:31 Ross was a guest on the Paul deLay retrospective on episode 120
• 1:43 Ross lives near Los Angeles, which has helped him tap into the movie session work there
• 2:10 Originally moved to LA for college, but not to study music, and didn’t know would become a professional musician at that stage
• 2:51 Has lots of great recording credits to his name already, at the tender age of 39
• 3:08 Plays numerous types of harmonica, but first instrument was piano and composes and produces records
• 3:24 Harmonica was also around from a young age, which he first thought of as a toy
• 3:44 Took lessons on piano
• 3:57 Really connected with harmonica from age 12
• 4:16 Played other instruments when young: violin, saxophone and trombone
• 4:22 How piano playing informed his harmonica playing
• 4:41 Ross is an analytical person and the piano can feed into that
• 5:28 Diatonic was first harmonica and enjoyed figuring out how to play it without the masses of material for piano
• 6:32 Had classical piano lessons
• 6:36 Knew two guys where he grew up, one who guided him on diatonic and another on chromatic, who played with the Sharp Harp group based in San Jose
• 7:54 Did Ross learn differently on harmonica coming from classical piano knowledge
• 8:18 Early on had heard Adam Gussow, Carlos del Junco and Howard Levy but overblowing was not well known at the time (in the 1990s)
• 8:45 Most of players Ross admired early on were the classic blues players and Stevie Wonder and Toots Thielemans
• 8:58 On chromatic loved the playing of Stevie Wonder, who plays melodically and not hugely complex
• 9:25 Moved away from playing harmonica for a few years when started playing more complex music
• 10:22 Started getting interested in jazz and fusion at this time and became frustrated with the difficulties of playing in different keys on a C chromatic
• 11:28 Got back into harmonica in early to mid-twenties used the knowledge gained to use the harmonica more effectively
• 11:54 Had some lessons with David Barrett on diatonic harmonica
• 12:58 David Barrett gave Ross the opportunity to start teaching harmonica at some of his workshops and providing transcriptions for some of his books
• 13:36 Went through David Barrett’s accreditation programme
• 13:59 Ross has created an overblow series on the BluesHarmonica.com website, for using overblows in traditional blues playing
• 15:06 Still uses overblows to enhance his blues playing, but isn’t an expert overblow player, preferring the chromatic at times for this purpose
• 15:27 Uses the Gamechanger harmonica, which is a diatonic with a slide, allowing chromaticism
• 15:41 Uses Brendan Power’s overblower booster, modified further by Kinya Pollard, allowing use of overblows without setting up diatonics specifically for overblows
• 17:48 Andre LaFosse description of Ross’s playing stylesl: "Ross Garren’s sound world is a meeting of vintage Americana, retro-futurism, classic songcraft and whimsical surrealism."
• 18:11 Ross got into session work ‘unintentionally’
• 18:39 Studied music composition and jazz piano at college, and when left college was teaching piano and doing gigs on piano
• 19:04 Was not playing harmonica at this time
• 20:06 Got a gig with an old friend, playing some harmonica at the Monterrey Blues festival
• 20:35 Used Seydel harmonicas for Monterrey gig
• 21:02 Playing harmonica brought some stress relief from music career in LA
• 22:22 Took some lessons with Winslow Yerxa and got exposure to bass harmonica and other types of harmonica
• 22:51 Video of Ross accompanying Alex Paclin with bass and chord harmonicas
• 23:21 When first started playing again it was on diatonic at first, with chromatic coming a few years later
• 24:04 Has done lots of great session work, including with Beyonce earlier in 2024
• 25:41 In the Beyonce session they wanted a Little Walter vibe. There was no tube amp, but they managed to find a retro speaker
• 27:30 Didn’t get to meet Beyonce but thinks she gave her seal of approval to the harmonica parts
• 28:04 Often harmonica used in pop tracks in quite minimal, and in some cases you almost wouldn’t recognise it as harmonica
• 28:45 What people want from different recording sessions varies between traditional harmonica playing to more of a layered approach
• 30:11 Ross was employed as a bass harmonica player as part of a woodwind section on the Bon Iver album
• 31:45 Has made some great chromatic recording sessions
• 32:18 Played chromatic on song Something That Matters, from an album which won an Emmy for best TV theme on Palm Royale
• 33:30 Has played on some big movies, including Logan, Flowers of the Moon, and the new Joker: Folie a Deux movie
• 34:01 Ross seems to be the man they call for session work around LA, taking on the mantle left by Tommy Morgan, and did some work with Tommy Morgan
• 35:02 Kim Wilson gets some of the more bluesy session work in that area whereas Ross gets more of the Tommy Morgan type sessions
• 35:56 Ross plays in an roots meets electronica duo The Sheriffs of Schroedingham
• 37:06 Ross has improved his music production skills
• 37:29 New release on Bandcamp: On Winds and Reeds and Very Old Trees, mainly produced and mixed by Ross
• 39:30 Has eclectic tastes and has enjoyed playing and creating varied types of music
• 40:28 Doesn’t play a lot of concerts under own name
• 41:25 Ross lists many of the great sessions he’s recorded on his website
• 41:42 Wrote a series of articles for the UK National Harmonica League magazine: Reeds for the Record, focused on recording approaches
• 43:18 Ten minute question
• 44:19 Spent some time with Bill Barrett and his playing of the chromatic contrapuntally (counterpoint)
• 45:04 Has ‘informally’ been taking lessons from Joe Filisko, tone production and the harmonica train
• 45:44 Diatonic of choice: played Seydel for a long time and recently been using Kinya Pollard custom Hohner harmonicas
• 46:45 Chromatics: Suzuki Sirius 64
• 47:26 Uses Brendan Power’s Slider Bass Harp on a Suzuki bass harp
• 47:35 The Gamechanger harmonica, a diatonic with a slide, which Kinya Pollard is distributing
• 49:43 The Gamechanger could be similar to the Morbendz discussed episode 113
• 49:57 Embouchre: uses different ones at different times, including U bend occasionally
• 50:30 Mainly tongue blocks on 16 hole chromatic and puckers on 12 hole
• 51:08 Amps: favourite tone produced on an album was from a small 1940s Gibson amp
• 51:43 Not too picky with amps when playing live: playing through the PA or from his collection of small amps
• 52:18 Sometimes records cleanly and then adds effects in post-production
• 52:30 Played through Dave Barrett’s Masco PA head, which blew him away and bought something similar. This the type reputedly used by Little Walter
• 52:54 Likes the traditional Chicago Blues sound
• 53:11 Mics: used Ultimate 57 for a while, now uses the Lone Wolf Jason Ricci mic
• 53:29 Has a collection of bullet mics, mainly purchased via Simple Mics
• 53:54 Likes to take more robust mics on the road, which can be replaced like for like
• 54:15 Often uses a SM58 dynamic mic
• 54:43 Future plans
• 55:15 Recently played a solo harmonica show, which he really enjoyed
• 55:27 Been playing with neighbour (Nathan James), the blues guitarist from James Harman band, and has played with Kim Wilson Southern Californian harp players
• 56:22 Will be recording harmonica on an upcoming Bob Dylan biopic, emulating Dylan’s style of harmonica

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:00

Ross Garon joins me again on episode 122. Ross lives near Los Angeles, where he has established himself as a leading session musician for harmonic recordings on movies, including Marvel's Logan and the new Joker film, as well as on albums with numerous pop artists, including recently on Beyonce's album Cowboy Carter. Initially a piano player, Ross came to love the harmonica from the age of 12 and now plays a wide range of harmonicas from diatonic to chromatic, bass, chord and even other types. Ross plays in the Roots meets Electronica duo The Sheriffs of Schrodingham and has just released a self-produced ambient album called Of Winds and Reeds and Very Old Trees. He also recorded the harmonica for a Bob Dylan biopic coming out soon. This podcast is sponsored by Seidel Harmonicas. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Seidel Harmonicas. Hello, Ross Garron, and welcome back to the podcast. Hey, thanks for having me, Neil. Great. So we had you on two episodes ago on the Pole Delay Retrospective, and you were such a wonderful guest. We had to get you back rapidly afterwards and talk about all the wonderful things you've done. So, Ross, you're based near L.A., yeah, in the U.S., and that's put you into the session studio recording work around there, yeah? Definitely, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:51

In particular, film music, I think a lot of that's getting done out of L.A., and so So I've done a lot of that as well as records, but a lot of film.

SPEAKER_01: 2:07

Were you originally from there, or did you move there for the music scene? I moved to

SPEAKER_03: 2:11

LA for college. When I went to college, I knew that I was interested in music, but where I moved from, there were not many full-time professional musicians, so it wasn't totally on my radar to become a full-time professional musician, and I sort of lucked out that where I went to college was LA, where there's a very thriving, viable music scene, and so I I did go to L.A. because there was some wonderful music education opportunities, and I knew that that was around, but I did sort of, it wasn't quite as intentional as thinking I would be a professional musician in L.A. when I went to college.

SPEAKER_01: 2:51

Yeah, no, fantastic. So you've done loads of great session work, which we'll get on to, and it's incredible when I dive into people's careers like yours to see all the wonderful things you've done. So well done on a great career so far, and you're still quite a young guy. How old are you now? 39. So you play, you know, for your session where you play lots of different types of harmonica, but you also play keyboard and are a composer, yes, and you do record producing. So which came first for you, the keyboard, the harmonicas?

SPEAKER_03: 3:21

Growing up as a kid, we had a piano in the house, but I also got a, you know, a harmonica probably as a toy, you know, when I was a little guy. So they were both always around. I mean, harmonica, I think I thought of as a toy at that time. You know, I had a little song book that had, you know, some nursery rhyme type songs on it. And I do remember fiddling around with that when I was five or six. But piano was an instrument, you know, I took lessons on like many kids do starting at a relatively young age. I really liked it and was very moved and inspired to play. But I would say when I started playing harmonica, when I sort of really connected with it around when I was probably 12, 13, 14, somewhere in there. That's when I really got extra serious about, you know, maybe going down the path of being a professional musician. But I would say piano came first. I played some other instruments when I was a kid, violin and saxophone and trombone. I just had, you know, fun with instruments.

SPEAKER_01: 4:22

So a question I ask pretty much every piano player who comes on here is, you know, those comparisons with the harmonic. I Well, I can

SPEAKER_03: 4:38

think of a few different ways to respond to that. I think I'm a pretty analytical person and tend to, if anything, overthink things. you know, like I said, I was playing piano and enjoying it and, you know, somewhat serious about it as far as like a 12 year old, you know, could be, you know, I wasn't like, like a prodigy playing concerts and all that. I just, you know, enjoyed it and did it pretty regularly. But it's an easy instrument to overthink things. You know, you've got two hands, you have 10 fingers, you have hundreds of years of repertoire by the greatest geniuses that music has known, you know, and you compare Bach to Chopin to whatever to the great boogie woogie players and you have a lot to chew on there and I think it can be a little overwhelming so I was enjoying that but the harmonica particularly the diatonic harmonica at that time that was the first one that I started playing you know that my mom I think when I was about at 12 13 somewhere in their seventh grade maybe got me a harmonica and a book on harmonica and it was a it was a blues harp And I think just the nature of the instrument that you can't really like see what people are doing. You know, you have to kind of feel your way out and discover it, like what it feels like in your mouth. At that time, there wasn't that much literature. You know, this is like probably mid, late 90s. I don't think I had access to the internet, things like that at that time. So I just really didn't have too much information. So I had to kind of figure it out largely by myself. That really appealed to me. But to answer your question... about the chromatic and how I viewed it. So firstly, I think I really enjoyed just having to use my ear and senses to learn how to play harmonica versus piano. It was pretty easy to be like, ah, is my arm in the right position? You know, like, what am I, you can even talk out loud while you're playing piano, you know? Did you have classical piano lessons? I did, yeah. And I did find the chromatic harmonica pretty quickly. There were two guys in the, at this time, I was born and lived in Maryland, a rural part of Maryland, until I was about, I think, 11 until middle school. And then my parents moved to Monterey, California. And there were two guys that I eventually connected with in the local area. And one was a really wonderful, sweet, knowledgeable, sharing blues harp player named Pete Grissom, who really liked the classic Chicago stuff and West Coast stuff. So, you know, he certainly introduced me to chromatic in the Little Walter George Smith way but the other guy that was around was an older retired gentleman who came from the harmonica band scene and was a wonderful jazz player arranger for harmonica bands and it was actually an extremely accomplished musician had done some arranging for sammy davis jr and then sharp harp which was a harmonica group out of san jose and he was really a wonderful improviser on a number of instruments but he was pretty much just a chromatic player pretty quickly those two two guys were coming from opposite musical worlds. Those were the two guys kind of when I was first getting into it that I spent time with. And his name was Chuck Fendall.

SPEAKER_01: 7:54

So what's interesting, particularly in someone who like yourself learned the sort of classical piano is, you know, harmonica players are obviously accused quite often of not knowing anything about music. It's quite often true, you know, so to come from it from your side where you, you know, you do understand the music theory and, you know, I mean, how do you think that changed your harmonica playing? But it sounded like once you did pick up the diatribe, and that you were playing more or less from ear and you know what do you think about that? So like when I was getting into this

SPEAKER_03: 8:20

like late 90s I suppose I had heard Adam Gussaw and I had heard Carlos Del Junco and I had heard Howard Levy but Overblowing was esoteric there weren't that many players doing it was not nearly as common then as it is now like I said there was those couple guys that had crossed my radar but it really wasn't on my radar my radar. Most of the players I really love, you know, were the classic blues guys and Stevie Wonder and Toots. And I wasn't exposed much to the thought of playing really complicated chromatic music on the blues harp. And then with the chromatic, I think I really love Stevie. You know, the way he plays is super well informed by music theory, but it's not similar to like a shredding bebop, post-bop, modern jazz horn player. It's much more melodic, kind of similar It's simpler in a way. I'd say it's complex in a lot of ways, but in terms of just playing sheets of sound at blazing tempos across a lot of chord changes, that's not really part of what he does. But what I would say is at a certain point in my development, I got away from the harmonica entirely because I think I got frustrated. I really loved blues when I was younger. When I started getting interested in more complicated styles, at this time I was playing, again, I did have a classical piano. piano background, so I understood some music theory. But in terms of really having experience playing with people, playing in a non-classical situation, it came from some friends where we were playing blues. They were really wonderful guys. Actually, we were all in middle school, but all of those guys pretty much have gone on to have amazing careers in music. The McKay brothers, who were a great guitarist, great bass player. The guitar player started pushing us more in the direction of playing like Robin Ford type music where it was blues and bluesy you know where you started getting these chord changes that like you know is a little more sophisticated and I started getting interested in jazz in understanding that the vocabulary of bebop and swing and fusion I think I got frustrated at that time for some reason I think as a developing musician the chromatic the fact that each key on a chromatic harmonica felt so different that was a really big stumbling block for me, you know, like learning something that worked well, a phrase, for example, that you could play over D minor, moving it to A flat minor and finding it like five times harder to play. That really frustrated me. So at that time in my development, I focused on playing piano. So I would say that the music theory for me, I had an idea at that time of how music that I wanted to make was put together. I was still very much learning, and I was very overwhelmed by the technical issues of both the chromatic and diatonic harmonica, and I got away from them. And then when I got back into harmonica in my probably early mid-20s, I had a lot more knowledge and experience, and I had a much better sense of how to use the instrument successfully for me. how to not fight it, how to work with it, and how to not feel limited by it, but to feel empowered by it.

SPEAKER_01: 11:54

So talking about this journey, so you did have some lessons with David Barrett, didn't you?

SPEAKER_03: 11:58

Yeah. After I met Pete Grissom, Pete, at that time, he taught some of Dave's students. So Pete never really would take money for lessons from me. He was a very kind, sweet mentor. And at some point in time, we kept hanging out and he would show me things and it was great. But he was like, you should study with Dave. And so that was probably middle school for me. Dave was amazing. You know, Dave really gave me a wonderful foundation on the diatonic harmonica. I'm not sure how many lessons I took, probably 10 to 20, something like that. But at a certain point in time, he was also starting to do weekend workshops. When I met him, he was doing this big annual event in San Jose where you'd have, you know, five or six of the legendary guys come. They would do workshops. He would do workshops. They do this big concert. But I studied with him, as I said, but he also also really empowered me and inspired me by giving me the opportunity to be a teacher and curriculum designer at 15 or 16 for some of those workshops. So even though I maybe only took 10 or 20 or 25 lessons with him, I kept working with him. He had me do some transcription work for him for his books, maybe on just chromatic harmonica. There may have only been one or two. I can't really remember. This is going back quite a ways. And then later on, When I got back into Harmonica, so when I started with him, it was before bluesharmonica.com was created. And then when I got back into it, I went through his accreditation program. So I, you know, reconnected with him. You know, so much great material. That is a killer website.

SPEAKER_01: 13:46

No, absolutely. I mean, I interviewed Dave a few episodes back and absolutely looking through his website, that's the most comprehensive, you know, site to go. All aspects of Blues Harmonica, fantastic video resource site. that is amazing and you uh you contribute on there don't you do an overblow series on there

SPEAKER_03: 14:04

i did an overblow series for him yeah after i finished that going through his accreditation program yeah i did an overblow series which was really cool i'm not sure that's going back a ways now that i probably would have some different thoughts on it now but it was a great experience for me to break it down he as i recall wanted it fit the format that that he um uses on the site which which is very step-by-step, detailed, and thorough, and it was definitely a learning experience for me.

SPEAKER_01: 14:37

Your approach was about incorporating overblows into traditional blues playing, wasn't it? So it wasn't kind of Howard Levy jazz style, it was bringing in some overblows for blues, is that right?

SPEAKER_03: 14:48

Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say that I'm really a qualified, would be a qualified teacher for the more fully chromatic, I mean, yes, playing it fully chromatic, but I would say that the music was based on Chicago blues and incorporating and spicing up that

SPEAKER_01: 15:04

with overblows. So do you still use overblows in that way, as in to sort of enhance your blues playing?

SPEAKER_03: 15:11

Absolutely. It's not an obsession of mine. And I will say that I really like playing chromatic harmonica. So there's a lot of music that I moved to the chromatic on that maybe has kept me from going as far into incorporating overblows as I could. Also, the new game changer harmonica that is basically like a Koch harmonica is something that I've been using a fair amount just since I got it in the last few months that also kind of fills that role. And then the main change for me, probably since that series came out on bluesharmonica.com is Brandon Power created the Overblow Booster. which is a slide attachment to a diatonic harmonica that a friend of mine, Kenya Pollard, who has a harmonica customizing business called the Harpsmith, he really refined that, Brendan's design and implementation. And so that is something I use a lot that's basically made it so I don't have to worry about the setup of the Overblow harp.

SPEAKER_01: 16:17

No, that's great. Yeah, because a lot of times, well, because when you're playing Overblows, you have to set the harp, right? And then it does doesn't respond necessarily in a way to sort of play a Chicago blues style yeah so you've got that middle ground that you don't have to set the harp up specifically to overblows that sounds like a really good uh way to do it

SPEAKER_03: 16:32

yeah I mean for me it was a big deal because I liked overblows but I really like traditional blues harmonica playing and there was always that give and take like the better the easier it is to overblow the harder it was for me to just smack a chord hard or you know do these sorts of things and it always felt like a major compromise and between Brandon and Kenya they actually made it so that if I don't touch the slider it feels like as good a diatonic harmonica as I've played and then I can use the slider to pop into an overblow and it feels like that same kind of cheating type overblow where you take the cover plates off and you dampen the one reed and you basically like I can pretty easily out of a tongue block, which used to be pretty hard for me, overblow and bend up way beyond the pitch that I'm shooting for if I want. And it really is one of the few things I've gotten to mess with that feels lossless. There's nothing lost in that innovation. The only thing that would be lost is if you were so developed of an overblow player that using the slide and all that slowed you down, which I'm sure for a lot of guys who are really great at it, they're moving so fast that hitting a slide would be a bummer. But for me, it is not. And I love that thing.

SPEAKER_01: 17:45

Yeah, I'll have to try one of those out. That sounds really good. So let's get into your music career, some more on your recordings, which, again, are very varied. And I've got a description I've read about you here from Andre Lafosse. Ross Garan's Sound World is a meeting of vintage Americana, retro futurism, classic songcraft and whimsical surrealism. So that's quite a range there and sums it up quite very well, I think. So you have done loads of session work, as we said earlier on. But how did you get into the session work? You obviously talked about being in this band. You started playing more piano and then got back into the harmonica sort of mid-20s more seriously. So were you playing in bands first or did you start picking up session work? How did that go for you? You know, it

SPEAKER_03: 18:29

was all very, I would say, unintentional. So it's pretty hazy to me. It wasn't like I crafted a plan to kind of get into it. My basic memory is I went to college. I studied music composition and jazz piano, basically. I'm like classical music composition. And when I got out of college, I was teaching. I taught at a college called Musicians Institute in LA. So I was teaching and I was just trying to do as many jazz gigs and eventually like weddings and, you know, kind of corporate music. And at the same time as a piano player. So that like harmonica was off my radar all throughout college and a little after college and the end of high school. I probably didn't even pick one up more than once a year. I just was not on my radar. And so I was just trying to do piano gigs, whatever I could, trying to get commissions. I was a classical composing major. So I was, you know, that's a pretty hard world. But I was, you know, getting like a little woodwind quintet commission or a string quartet commission. And that kind of dovetailed into starting to find some work as a composer for like licensing library businesses, you know, that would create basically hire composers to create and produce pieces. music that was ready to go, that media production, whether it's TV, film, or corporate internal educational videos, you know. So I was working in that context as much as I could, basically just gigging piano, teaching a little bit, trying to write music for TV, film, and, you know, just whatever I could. And one of my old friends from when I was growing up, Stu Hayden, who's a mentor and a a very experienced touring blues musician, got a gig at the Monterey Blues Festival and asked me to come play harp. And I was, I don't remember how old I was. Mid-twenties would be my memory. I was like, yeah, let's do it. You know, go home, see my folks. They still live in Monterey, play this festival. And I had a great time. I got some new Seidel harmonicas for it. Just kind of had fun with it. You know, I think my dad might've got them for me. I think, I can't remember if Pete Grissom or Kenya. I've known both of those guys. They're kind of in and around Dave Barrett's sphere. One of those two guys told me to try Seidel harmonicas and I just like bought a couple and I just got kind of I got fired up and I really enjoyed it. And it was really fun for me. I was very I think it was a pretty anxious time for me that that period in life, you know, it's pretty hard to set myself apart in L.A. at that age, you know. this is my recollection. It's just, it's just like kind of stressed, you know, and, and, um, having the harmonica just feel like a hobby that was in the field that I was pursuing very rigorously and with much anxiety to have something where I just like, didn't have to practice at all. And I would like have fun was, uh, kind of a revelation to me, you know, I didn't put anything on it other than let's have fun. And then I started playing and, um, I had fun. And I, after that, I started practicing a little bit, trying to really make a point to not be stressed, you know, not to put too much pressure on myself for it to be anything more than fun. It just kind of evolved from there.

SPEAKER_01: 22:10

Oh, good to hear that the harmonica was distressed really before you.

SPEAKER_03: 22:14

It really was. It really was. And I sort of like, I had, because of... Dave and these guys in the Monterey area. And also I got exposure to Winslow. I took a couple lessons from Winslow Yorksa and had his magazines, the hip magazines, which I still probably read to this day sometimes. I got a lot of exposure to bass harmonica and a lot of different approaches to the instrument and the extended family polyphonias and all that. So I kind of like knew about that stuff. So when I got back into it as a hobby, it sort of blossomed a little bit. bit

SPEAKER_01: 22:49

so you mentioned bass harmonica there so there's a there's a great video of you playing with alex packlin where you're playing bass and a chord accompanying alex playing uh blue rondelle a la terre so so that looks like you're pretty young on that one so is that is that this sort of age

SPEAKER_03: 23:17

yeah i mean that must have been a few years after for sure because i when i first started playing again it was only diatonic and then i got a little band together and we started booking some gigs and having some fun and i started over time started working on my chromatic harmonica playing and adding bass and and things like that so uh that video i remember from like the way i played chromatic on it. I definitely had been working on it a lot at that point in time because I remember feeling really good about that chromatic harmonica solo.

SPEAKER_01: 23:59

so we you know that you say you kind of organically grew into being what a session musician so let's talk about some of your session work of which there is tons and you sent me loads of clips and i listened through and you played with some incredible people including beyonce so um talk about that one's probably the most famous uh the one on the list certainly to my eyes

SPEAKER_03: 24:19

yeah i mean beyonce that was super fun for me that was um actually earlier this year one thing that was remarkable about that session is that i think i did the session i want to say an early March. And then the record came out in late March, which blew my mind that like we were recording her record mere weeks before it was released. So that middle school friend of mine, I think I mentioned the two brothers, the McKay brothers, they now go by Andrew and Daniel Aged. Both Danny and film composer friend of mine named Catherine Bostic recommended me to the guy producing those tracks or at least involved in the production on some tracks. And he certainly produced my sessions. legendary guy named Raphael Sadiq. My middle school buddy, Danny, has played bass for Raphael off and on for a long time. So he recommended me. Yeah, got to do it. And one of the things that was a big highlight for me is for a long time, D'Angelo's Voodoo album has been like one of my favorite all-time records, just to me, a monumental work of art. And Raphael was the producer on that album. So to get called not only to work on Beyonce's music, which is exciting for me to work on you know culturally relevant stuff that people will hear but to get to get a taste of how Rafael was in the studio and and to interact with him was was a real treat and it was a really chill kind of open-ended session they put on a couple tracks that they had an idea for they had the idea that they wanted harmonica on we just tried some different things and you know one thing that's also memorable about that session is when I got there I asked them what are we going after to hear what's the vibe and Raphael said Little Walter would be a great starting place you know and you know it's not all that often I get people who are that educated in that type of harmonica and I felt kind of bummed because I had asked the assistant if I should bring any gear and he said yeah just bring harmonicas when they said Little Walter you know I thought the amplified sound is what most people think of and we were at this incredible studio in the Michael Jackson room at the Westlake studio they had just insane gear insane keyboards everything was beautiful they did not have access to an old tube amp small tube amp and I was kind of super bummed and then what was cool is they ended up I think in like a closet of stuff that's supposed to be repaired or something they found an old broken Auratone speaker and you know recorded me acoustically and through this old tiny little broken grot box speaker. And it was not a classic Little Walter sound, but it seemed more appropriate to music that was not Little Walter type music anyway. So it was kind of a cool, like, you know, through some creative thinking, they put something together that I actually was like, oh, this is a really cool novel sound. And I actually don't think that stuff has been released yet. I think some of that will be on a future album or...

SPEAKER_01: 27:30

Yeah, cool. So I take it you didn't get to meet Beyoncé usually is the way in these things, isn't

SPEAKER_03: 27:35

it? Yeah, she apparently was on the premises, but like doing vocals in another room and they'd send her... When I first got there, I guess I recorded on a song or two. And then at the end of it, that was what we were planning to do. I left. They sent it to her or she came down and listened. I'm not really sure. And they hired me to come back and work on three or four more the next day after she got a chance to check it out. But yeah, I did not meet her.

SPEAKER_01: 28:00

But she gave you her seal of approval, which is nice to hear.

SPEAKER_03: 28:03

Somebody did.

SPEAKER_01: 28:04

The track she sent me, we talked a little bit before the interview, obviously. And there's another song called You Man Like by Bon Iver, which has got quite subtle harmonica I mean, I'm listening to some of the tracks you play on. It's great stuff, but you'd hardly even know it was a harmonica to some extent. You like the effects on there and things, and this song's a good example. You know, it's quite minimalist and stuff in these sorts of pop recordings you've done. That's often the way in the sessions you've done.

SPEAKER_03: 28:39

Yeah, I mean, you know, seen, felt, but not heard. You know, I'm not really sure. My general perception is that there are some sessions that I do where people really want the harmonica tropes, you know, whether it's Morricone type spaghetti western vibey harmonica sound or it's Neil Young kind of you know singer songwriter Neil Young Bob Dylan or it's something in the bluesy or country zone that that's definitely a thing that comes up a lot well I mean I suppose that's probably why I got that Beyonce recording was she was making a country inspired album and so you know maybe harmonica came up in in in their brainstorms about that I'm not sure and then another way that I seem to get some work whether it's Bon Iver or you know any number of others is the idea of harmonica I think is sort of like an element that they don't get to use too much and that they're going to have fun exploring and that you know they're not planning a big Stevie Wonder solo or they're not you know thinking of something like that but they kind of just want to get that texture and have fun exploring it and Bon Iver I think was so So that particular recording, there was a great arranger named Rob Moose, who's sort of a string arranger to all of the modern stars from Taylor Swift to Sara Bareilles. He's just really wonderful and very, very, very busy. He was arranging basically woodwinds a funky woodwind ensemble for that album and he pretty much put me in as a bass harmonica player in the woodwind section we did tracked it live with a group of I'm not sure probably about six or seven woodwinds and he put bass harp in that crew there was a little bit of chromatic and then there was that one moment on this wonderful Bruce Hornsby Bon Iver collaboration I think Moses Sumney's on there as well where he wanted us some featured harmonica so If you listen to the record, you'd have to listen pretty closely because it's mostly subtle bass harmonica on every track. And then there he wanted a little bit more of a feature, but he didn't want it to sound like a trope, I don't think. So he, you know, we just kind of, as often seems to be the case, just very quickly did a few layers of things. And he said, you know what, I know exactly what I'm going to do with this. You know, there's a few harmonica textures that are stacked on each other. And then he sort of arranged it as he saw fit. Yeah, I can't really speak to why it is often subtle in film. I think I know why it's often subtle. It's because most of the music I track for film and TV is probably meant to be talked over. You know, it is underscore music. So most of the elements that might poke out, I think, tend to be pretty subtle at this particular moment in film music practice.

UNKNOWN: 31:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 31:42

Yeah, and as you say, it's fitting into a wider texture. But you certainly do do some prominent recordings, and you do some really good ones on chromatic harmonica. So you play with a sort of French group called Pomp-a-la-Mousse, is it? And you play some beautiful sort of chromatic harmonica on that.

UNKNOWN: 32:02

Pomp-a-la-Mousse

SPEAKER_01: 32:16

You also played on a song called Something That Matters, which won an Emmy for best, was it a TV theme or a movie theme? Played Chromatico Monica on that.

SPEAKER_03: 32:26

I'm not totally sure if that track was the theme song for the show or not. It certainly was one that was definitely a highlight for me because he gave me featured credit, which is pretty rare that my name appears on a track when you look it up on a streaming platform that I It says Jeff Toyne and Ross Guerin. But yeah, Palm Royale was the name of that show. And it just won an Emmy for best theme song. I don't think that was the theme song, but yeah, he wrote this great chromatic feature and a killer to just have the opportunity to be in that kind of, I think Henry Mancini was sort of the point of inspiration for that show with the strings and the whole lush old school sound. That's a real treat to get to dive into from time to time.

SPEAKER_01: 33:28

And some beautiful chromatic playing on that. And you played on various big movies as well. You played on the Marvel film Logan. You played some Diatonic. You played on the Leonardo DiCaprio film Flowers of the Moon. And you've just recently played on the new Joker movie,

SPEAKER_03: 33:49

yeah? Yeah, I've been lucky to get to do a pretty good number of those films. And hopefully the lucky

SPEAKER_01: 33:57

streak will continue.

UNKNOWN: 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 33:59

Yeah, no, some fantastic stuff there. So you're the man on the list, are you, of the people who they call in L.A.? The fixers, they call them, I think, over here.

SPEAKER_03: 34:10

I mean, it seems to be. There aren't too many guys that do it. And yeah, I think ever since Tommy Morgan... you know, retired. Um, there was like a brief time where I got to do some collaborative projects with Tommy, um, where he either recorded part of it and then I recorded part, or there were a few things like, I think Logan, actually, you mentioned that Marvel film. I think he had done earlier installments of Marvel movies and they used some of those cues and extended them in Logan. So there were a few things where we both recorded just in maybe 10 or 11 years apart. Right. And sort of after he retired, I don't really know who, who all is getting the film work, but I certainly am getting a fair amount of it. And my impression is that, you know, Southern California is home to some, some of the most awesome blues harp players. And I know like Kim Wilson does a lot of that stuff, you know, particularly for T-Bone Burnett and others. But of guys, you know, who are, you know, a little more, I don't know, traditional in terms of, of, of coming out of Tommy Morgan, you know, music and playing yeah yeah I'm not sure that there are any any other guys really doing it

SPEAKER_00: 35:36

Hey everybody, you're listening to Neil Warren's Harmonica Happy Hour Podcast, sponsored by Tom Halcheck and Blue Moon Harmonicas out of Clearwater, Florida. The best in custom harmonicas, custom harmonica parts, and more. Check them out, www.bluemoonharmonicas.com.

SPEAKER_01: 35:56

And you also play in a duo. Now, you're definitely going to challenge my pronunciation here. So the Sheriffs of Schrodingham is a duo with John Schroder. So you're playing kind of traditional meets electronica in this and then some really interesting stuff on here.

SPEAKER_03: 36:11

Yeah, John's been one of my best friends for a long time. And we both kind of got into playing more roots music. I would say sort of together. We're both guys, I think, that grew up really loving that music. But in our early professional years, found ourselves, you know, making modern pop music, film score, you know, just like trying to work in LA. And there are not a lot of people calling for slide guitar for John, you know, and there were nobody calling me to play harmonica at that time. And we both love that stuff. And so we just kind of started having fun, you know, using it as a chance to practice together to get into stuff that we liked. John, I actually would credit quite a bit with helping me advance my production skills, you know? So we both also got into recording and geeking out about, you know, recording techniques and technology and studio setups. And so we started, you know, enjoying... making records of various

SPEAKER_01: 37:26

sorts, you know. So you mentioned there about producing. So just recently, you've just released on Bandcamp, which is sort of ambience music, lots of keyboards with harmonica mixed in. This is something that you've mixed yourself and you just put out on Bandcamp, yeah?

UNKNOWN: 37:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 37:54

The record is called Of Wind and Reeds and Very Old Trees, and it is sort of a harmonica compilation of some music we're going to be releasing down the line, a three-record. This is sort of a harmonica-themed release that there will be a more full release of basically three separate records, of which the main one is Trail of the Cedars. It's on just Bandcamp at the moment, and it is exactly that. All stuff, yeah, I think I've mixed, and me and my part in this band. This is the Magnetic Vines. We're a duo, really. I guess not a band. We wrote all the material, recorded it, I guess I more or less produced it with him kind of overseeing. Yeah, also enlisted a friend of mine who's a great engineer, producer as well, Keith Armstrong. But yeah, over the years, I have had to develop some skill with mixing and production came a lot earlier, but mixing is sort of, I've been forced into it over the years.

SPEAKER_01: 38:54

So I'll put the link onto the podcast page to find that Bandcamp site for this album, as you say. So, I mean, it's the sort of music that, you know, it's very ambient, yeah? Is it music... you're playing live or is it um you know where would you see the setting for playing this sort of music

SPEAKER_03: 39:30

You know, I have very eclectic tastes in music. I have really enjoyed over the years just getting into themed projects. I think maybe that's normal for studio guys in LA. You get different gigs where, you know, there's some kind of specific sound world for this project. And then the next project is something totally different. And, you know, I've just come to embrace and enjoy music. researching stuff, learning about it, finding my way into different sound worlds and styles and trying to find something unique and interesting and exciting to me. And with this particular duo, Magnetic Vines, I would say ambient or moody, sort of meditative. I would say not necessarily always pleasant sounding. Some of it is a little gritty and dystopian, but that is definitely the bent and focus of this group. I think this kind of music, for me, I have performed some elements of that live, and I'd like to do that more. I don't do a lot of concerts under my own name, but I would like to do more of that. I think it could exist in the right concert setting. It's not like a dazzling... fiery pyrotechnical kind of concert, but I think it has its place. But I think this is also music that can exist as people are living their lives in the background, music to meditate to, to sleep to, to do chores to. You know, it's... I think it... That's my... feeling about what we're trying to do is I want to make music that people can listen to over and over and study and get something new out of it on repeated listens and it has that sort of depth. But at the same time I want to make music that can be useful to them in their life and improving quality of life and enjoyment and without commanding that they sit there and listen to it.

SPEAKER_01: 41:25

And again, just touching on all the great sessions you've had. So if people visit your website, they can see all the great work you've done in all the sessions and movies and all sorts of albums and things. So people can check it out there. There's way too many to go through here. There'll be a few clips on, but yeah, check that out for sure. So... Interesting thing that you've done, and also in writing, is you wrote a series of articles for the National Harmonica League magazine here in the UK called Reads for the Record, where you interviewed various people with a focus very much on kind of recording approaches, you know, microphones to use, positioning, you know, with a view as kind of session work. Yeah, a lot of the focus of these interviews, you interviewed Peter Gazelle and Mark Hummel and Dino Soldo, Jimmy Fadden, And so, yeah, that was your thinking, was it? To sort of pick their brains about session work.

SPEAKER_03: 42:17

Yeah, I mean, that's obviously as my harmonica career has developed, that's definitely been the biggest part or at least a really big part of it. Yeah, a lot of the information I was interested in is not readily accessible. Even how these great blues harp players recorded their instruments and got different sounds that they were particularly happy with. But definitely when you get into you. other styles besides blues harmonica, there was very little information out there about the recording techniques and that sort of stuff, so I did take that general bent and interviewed some of my favorite players and tried to learn what I could from them.

SPEAKER_01: 42:58

These interviews are all available on your website, yeah, so they're a really interesting read, and like you say, a really great insight to some of the things, you know, like recording techniques, microphones used, which, as you say, probably isn't that widespread, that information, so really well worth reading. I enjoyed them a lot myself and learned a lot of things from them. Okay, so go on to the 10-minute question now, Ross. So if you had 10 minutes of practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

SPEAKER_03: 43:24

Ben, you know, I'm not too regimented, and so it would be probably different things at different times. I mean, to be honest, I probably spend more time playing piano. I have more of a habit of practicing piano, even if I'm not performing that much. It's just a good way to work on writing music and hearing harmony and all that kind of stuff. But with a harmonica, It probably just kind of depends, you know? Sometimes if there's a performance coming up, it's always useful to review. the songs you know I find myself it's really easy for me to enjoy practicing like little exercises and I might even focus on those like my warm-ups or this kind of stuff and then I go to some gig and I can't remember the freaking melody of you know it's like the one thing you're supposed to actually do instead I've been doing breathing exercises and can't play the melody yeah so that would be the kind of thing I'd probably think about if I only had 10 minutes sometimes I like to try stuff that it's uncomfortable or foreign to me I got to hang with Bill Barrett recently, wonderful Southern California chromatic player. And he does a lot of stuff that I just really haven't worked on too much in terms of interesting tongue splits and almost attempting to play the chromatic harmonica contrapuntally you know with two lines and uh you know he does a lot of really cool tongue switching out of the sides and so so you know so that would be the kind of thing i might do too is just like pick up and mess with one of these kind of techniques that i just really haven't got too far into or i'm not that good at i have also sort of been informally taking lessons from joe felisco who really inspires me and so over the last little bit i probably you know in an attempt to try to get some amount of his understanding of tone production and sound you know probably if i had 10 minutes at this particular time i might just like practice the train which i'm just like plagued at being terrible at yeah i've been trying to trying to learn from him as much as i can he

SPEAKER_01: 45:34

does a mean train that's for sure yeah so the train's always a great one fantastic stuff so let's get on to the the last section now um to talk about the gear you so you've already You've already said you played some Seidel harmonicas, so I think you're an endorser of Seidel now, aren't you?

SPEAKER_03: 45:49

Yeah, that is correct. And so for years I've played them and I really found that the stainless reeds seem to last nearly forever. And that was great. It is great and I really like their harmonicas a lot. But I would say in recent years I have pretty much been playing harmonicas that Kenya Pollard, the harpsmith, has made for me. As far as I know, I don't think he works on the Seidel. platform and is working off honer platforms. But I really haven't been playing, you know, out of the box honers. I've just been playing the stuff that Kenya's made me. Really, it started with the Overblow Boosters with the slide on it. And then since then, he's been making me harmonicas that I've maybe been providing him some feedback on as he is, you know, refining his techniques for customization. And he's just been making some wonderful, awesome harps. And that's mostly what I've been playing for Blues Harp. harps, chromatics. I have pretty much been playing Suzuki chromatics. I had one harp years ago that Steve Mallard, a serious 64, he tuned for me. And that's probably been the only chromatic I've used on at least most film scoring sessions ever since. And I don't play it on gigs. I just only bring it out on those recordings because it's my most in tune chromatic. And I don't know why I picked that harmonica at that time, but it's a great harp.

UNKNOWN: 47:14

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03: 47:26

Brendan Power made me his slider bass harp on a Suzuki platform. Play that thing a lot and I'll be really sad if I ever have any

SPEAKER_01: 47:33

problems with it. You also mentioned this game changer harmonica earlier on. So this is like a diatonic with a slide so you can play it chromatically. Is that the idea of it? Well, and I got to thank

SPEAKER_03: 47:44

Kenya for this too. So I think Kenya, I think, is doing some distribution for them, the Harpsmith, and possibly some other things with that harmonica. Anyway, when he was considering whether he should carry that harmonica He sent me one. Actually, he sent me both the solo tuned version and the Richter tuned version. He sent me one of each to ask me what I thought. Yeah, I was really smitten with it. They make them in different tunings. So there is one that's a solo tuned version. So basically, it's like an unvalved chromatic. And then there's... a Richter tuned version, which is, you know, basically just exactly like a blues harp, but with a slide and it's unvalved and it, it plays remarkably well for, you know, it having twice as many reads. And I really like playing that instrument a lot. It doesn't feel weird or bad. I like the sound. I like the slide. I love the slide. I should say, I love being able to go up a half step, have twice as many double stops available and do all that. And they do make some other, at least one other tuning. I have seen a friend of mine named Sunny Kumar has been, and I think others maybe as well, have been making a bunch of other alternate tuned versions. I haven't really messed with those, but the Richter one is mainly the one I've played and really like. It allows me to do some stuff that I hadn't been able to do before. And the solo tune one is very cool too. I've enjoyed that, but I haven't spent that much time on it because it is basically, you know, just a chromatic harmonica.

SPEAKER_01: 49:08

Well, it sounds interesting. I'll have to check that out. It's another harmonica I'm going to have to buy now. Ross, let me see what you've done there. So are they made in the US or somewhere

SPEAKER_03: 49:17

else? I'm not sure. I think that they are distributed and badged under the name Bushman, but that they are actually made, I want to say... in China by a company called JDR, and there's a harmonica called the Trochilus that I think is the same harmonica. This is my sort of cursory understanding.

SPEAKER_01: 49:38

I had a quick look at the website, so I'll put a link onto the podcast page so people can check it out. But yeah, it looks interesting, as you say. It sounds a little bit like the Morbens that I taught a few episodes ago with Andre and Brendan. So yeah, interesting. Anyway, let's move on to some other questions around gear and techniques. So we've already talked about Overblow. So what about your embouchure? Are you were mainly tongue blocking, puckering or anything else? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03: 50:03

I kind of, I go in phases. I definitely use both of those embouchures, tongue blocking and puckering. I do on very, very rare occasion, maybe use you blocking as well. Very rare, pretty much just if I go like left side, you block right side, you know, that like that sort of tongue switching kind of thing. But I'm interested in that embouchure. I know a few of my favorite players used it. It's funny. There's some idiosyncrasies to my playing that like if I was on a 64 chromatic I would probably almost exclusively tongue block because I sometimes feel like I might get lost otherwise but if I was on a 12 hole chromatic I might mostly pucker that's not exclusively true but there's some oddities like that and I would say that probably one thing that I do is maybe I mostly tongue block would be my guess right now but there might be certain songs where I just decide oh you know this is something I'm going to just kind of to use puckering as my default embouchure for this style of playing or this song.

SPEAKER_01: 51:08

Yeah. And so what about amplification? You play a lot of different sort of stuff. Yeah, you play some blues stuff. I know I'm a Soldier is one of your favorite amplified sounds. What did you play that on when you recorded that

SPEAKER_03: 51:29

one? Yeah, that sound blew me away. That was just the studio's, I want to say it's like a 40s Gibson. Small, probably low watt, one speaker, maybe 1.8, 1.10, something like that, probably 1.8. And yeah, so I really like all kinds of different sounds. And so with amplification, I'm not super picky live. Most of the time when I perform live, it's as a sideband. So my concerns are probably pretty secondary to whoever the band leader is. And so I'm happy often to go through the PA or, you know, I do have cool old amps that I love and I sometimes get a little squeamish about, you know, exposing them to outdoor gigs or just, you know, getting beat up and stuff. So I have, you know, some more modern amps I don't feel as worried about. And I like all kinds of stuff. You know, I enjoy recording cleanly and then reamping, going through pedals, tape delays, all that kind of stuff. kind of stuff and seeing what happens. One time when I was at Dave Barrett's a long time ago, I played through his Masco rig. He had a Masco head through a cab, and that thing blew me away. That's what we think Little Walter probably played through, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I'm not an expert on that, so I went and got something similar to that. I got a Masco, I think I got a smaller version, but so I do use it. So I would say that that's a big differentiation for me, is if it's a traditional sound, like a traditional Chicago blues sound, that to me is really the only amplified point of reference that matters. Everything else feels kind of like more experimental and can have fun with.

SPEAKER_01: 53:11

But microphone-wise, I know you'll to use the Greg Heumann Ultimate 57. Is that your main live mic?

SPEAKER_03: 53:18

That was at one point in time, and then Jason Ricci and Randy at Lone Wolf sent me Jason's mic, and I've probably used that ever since. For live, one thing I like is I have a bunch of cool old bullets and different elements and all of that kind of stuff. In particular, I love for the traditional sound, I love just the experience of playing one of those simple mics is the company I've gotten like I don't even know probably a half dozen mics from simple mics custom harmonica mics but it does scare me to like go out on the road and play a mic that could break that I can't replace so both Greg's stuff and the Lone Wolf stuff feel similarly to me for this is specifically handheld amplified harp you know those mics with the volume control those dynamics that I hold in your hand. I would say like a lot of times, I'm very happy with just a 58, like through the PA. But if we're talking about amplified, I like the fact that if I break those, which I have done for sure, that I can just replace it pretty readily and it will sound the same. And so that's useful. Yeah, so that's kind of the 58 with an on-off switch is always great for clean playing, you know, or I guess you could have a volume control. I would love to get one of Greg's 58s with a volume control. I just haven't done that yet.

SPEAKER_01: 54:43

So what about your future plans? Obviously, you've got this band camp coming out. You've got more recording sessions coming up. It sounds like you do loads of different things and have a really varied, interesting time.

SPEAKER_03: 54:54

You know, I'm excited about putting out the new music with Magnetic Vine. You know, I really love making music. I love recording music. I love playing it. And there are many different things on the horizon that get me fired up. A lot of the stuff I get excited about is, you know, not necessarily the highest profile or something like that. It's just something that I get excited about putting together. I played a solo harmonica show over the weekend here where I live, and that was really great. I've never had the opportunity to play a set just by myself and see what that could be. I have a neighbor who's just a phenomenal blues guitar player named Nathan James. He toured for many years with James Harmon and Kim Wilson and plays, it seems to me, if Rod Piazza, Kim Wilson, Dennis Grunling, if any of those guys have given in southern california nathan's likely to be their guitar player and and we've been playing a pretty good amount recently and that's really fun for me because i my favorite harmonica stuff a lot of it is you know the blues harp tradition but i've never really got to play it with a real guy and he knows more about harmonica in that style than i do i mean i i love it and and i know that stuff pretty darn well but i mean he knows he was introducing me to jordan webb and jimmy wood i think and you know just just like a lot lot of the stuff that just hadn't crossed my radar and getting to play with him has been really fun. So, you know what? I do have one thing I am excited about. There's a...Timothy Chalamet has starred in a Bob Dylan biopic that will be coming out, I believe, in December that focuses on early Dylan. I think it's called... a complete unknown. Anyway, I had the opportunity to do, I think, almost all the harmonica at some point in time when they moved production to New York. Rob Paparazzi, I think, at least did some of it. But I probably recorded 30 or 35 songs for that movie, which was very rare for it to be songs and not underscore for me. And then for it to be such a deep dive into Dylan and his style of playing, that was really a remarkable experience for me. There was even a where I was supposed to do a Sonny Terry thing, which kind of blew my mind, and I spent all freaking day trying to do this one Sonny Terry thing. Actually, Joe helped me out a lot with some tips and pointers, but that is definitely the biggest film project from a playing standpoint I've had to do in terms of transcribing all that, recording all of it. I got to compare his live versions of certain songs to the studio versions, and yeah, I'm really excited about that. I'm not specifically excited about it coming out. I'm just really excited about what an enriching experience I had getting deep into Dylan, who I, you know, had pretty much ignored his playing altogether up until that point. I learned to love it, you know, and got a lot from him. And I feel like it changed me quite a bit as a player.

SPEAKER_01: 57:54

Fantastic. Yeah, that was an amazing experience to do that. So thanks so much for joining me again today, Ross Garan. And we really could have talked all night for your career. You've done some fantastic stuff. So if you urge people to check you out more and look at your website and your recording. So thanks so much, Ross.

SPEAKER_03: 58:10

Hey, thanks for having me, Neil. I love what you're doing. And I've listened to so many of your episodes with just cool interviews with guys that are hard to track down much of that kind of content with. So you're doing awesome stuff, man. Pleasure to be a part of it.

SPEAKER_01: 58:25

Once again, thanks to Zydle for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out their great range of harmonicas and products at www.zydle1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zydle Harmonicas. Thanks so much to Ross for joining me today. The best thing I love about doing this podcast is discovering all the great work and playing of the harmonica players I speak with. What an incredible career Ross has had thus far, recording on big movie soundtracks and numerous pop records and spreading the gospel of harmonica far and wide by playing with artists as well known as Beyonce. Thanks again to you for listening. I'm looking forward to the next episode already. I'll leave you now with Ross playing as some diatonic with the Sheriffs of Shreddingham duo. This one is Mad Cat on the Rocks.

UNKNOWN: 59:18

Mad Cat on the Rocks Let's go.