Santiago Alvarez interview

Santiago Alvarez joins me on episode 147.

Santiago is a chromatic player from Buenos Aires, who has dedicated himself to the folk traditions of Argentina, including writing a thesis on the history of the Argentine chromatic harmonica under the guidance of his mentor Franco Luciani.

Specialising in tango, he explores the close musical relationship between the chromatic harmonica and the bandoneon. Santiago has recorded with numerous Argentine artists, released his own album in 2019, performs widely across Latin America and Europe, and teaches internationally, including recently at The World Harmonica Championships at Trossingen in 2025. He has also created an online harmonica course for Argentine music.

Links:

Contact Santiago at: armonicasantiago@gmail.com

Santiago’s Argentine Harmonica Course: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/1BiBYGXPf3/

Santiago's thesis on Argentine chromatic harmonica: https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/folders/1V_gnxR5abozV8DMCgDchYZvqtzzqxsjf

Profile on World Harmonica Festival website: https://worldharmonicafestival.de/artist-profile-santiago-alvarez/

Harmonica FEN festival profile: https://harmonica-fen-festival.com/artist/santiago-alvarez/

Videos:

Santiago’s Argentine Harmonica Course teaser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUSki-oljnI&lc=UgzKGo6ZbqoJ-RmJhKx4AaABAg

A portrait of Santiago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTClyulss-0

Tanino Duo: https://www.youtube.com/@taninoduo/videos

Celtic Connections with Tanino Duo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuL_-npUniQ 

Argento Trio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKUTufuT1EE&list=RDeKUTufuT1EE

New trio with piano and bass: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCjG3mjq-yA&list=RDYCjG3mjq-yA

Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
--------------------------------
Blue Moon Harmonicas: https://bluemoonharmonicas.com

Chapters

• 1:33 Santiago is from Buenos Aires, Argentina
• 1:53 Is now a chromatic harmonica player, but started out playing diatonic age 16
• 2:49 Only performs on the chromatic harmonica, but still plays the diatonic and teaches it
• 3:00 Blues scene is strong in Buenos Aires
• 3:27 Howard Levy was an early inspiration and Santiago spent some time learning overblows on the diatonic, until he discovered the chromatic
• 4:04 Starting to learn overblows pushed Santiago into learning some jazz
• 4:29 Became interested in playing different forms of folk music
• 5:01 The Argentine chromatic player, Hugo Diaz, was a big influence on harmonica in Argentina
• 5:21 In Argentina much of the music available is from other countries, so Santiago had to hunt it out
• 7:21 Hugo Diaz was from the north of Argentina, playing the folk music from the region there and was mainly active between 1940-1970
• 8:22 Santiago has written a thesis on Argentinean chromatic harmonica music
• 8:41 Hugo Diaz was an important figure in Argentine music as an instrumentalist, not only a harmonica player
• 9:28 Santiago recently discovered more on how the harmonica came to Argentina in the 1930s from Hohner during his visit to the Trossingen festival in 2025
• 11:06 The bandoneon is another German instrument exported to Argentina, which is central to the sound of Argentinian tango, and is a free reed instrument, like the harmonica
• 12:46 Hoping to turn his thesis into a book and is currently translating the thesis into English so people will be able to read it online
• 13:46 Spent a year studying in New York before taking lessons with the great Argentine chromatic player Franco Luciano
• 15:34 Franco Luciano was also the director and contributed to the thesis Santiago has written on Argentinian chromatic harmonica
• 16:17 Considered becoming a tango dancer rather than a musician at one point
• 17:55 Learnt a lot from dancing the tango in how to perform, as well as helping to play the music too
• 18:40 Previously interviewed Joe Powers, who also specialises in playing tango music on the chromatic
• 19:05 Tango sounds very effective on the chromatic and fits very nicely on the instrument
• 19:59 Finland has it’s own brand of tango
• 20:14 Similarities with the bandoneon include the use of octaves and the rhythmical approach
• 22:28 Being a professional musician in Argentina presents some challenges but his passion for the music keeps him going
• 23:41 Harmonica players are finding spaces to occupy in the music and make the harmonica a recognised professional instrument
• 24:51 How the chromatic harmonica can capture the passion and emotion of tango music
• 26:57 First act was in the Tanino Duo, with guitarist Nicolás Pérez in 2010
• 28:23 Guitar is used in small ensembles in tango music
• 29:28 Other eminent guitarists Santiago has recorded with
• 30:00 2019 Domingo album is first solo album
• 30:21 Playing unison notes with the guitar and double stops and chords on the Domingo album
• 31:22 Change of embouchre is a unique aspect of tango music, for example to emphasis the rhythm with tongue slaps
• 32:25 Santiago mainly uses puckering and octaves, but other Argentinian players do it differently
• 32:55 Santiago learned the rhymical aspects of tango playing from Hugo Diaz, who is unlikely to have picked that up from Chicago style diatonic rhythmical playing techniques
• 33:58 Appeared at Celtic Connections with the Tanino Duo in 2016, as part of a Chamber Orchestra
• 36:54 Has performed with numerous contemporary folk and tango ensembles in Argentina
• 37:54 Has performed in Europe over the last ten years, touring 16 times during that time, mainly due to the appeal of tango music
• 39:02 Is a Hohner endorser and appeared at the Hohner Masters Workshop in 2023 and The World Harmonica Festival in 2025
• 40:12 Looking forward to more travels, including to Asia, to help share Argentinian music around the world
• 40:54 Tango music fits very well on the chromatic harmonica
• 42:10 Teaches in Beunos Aires where Santiago is the Professor of History of Tango and History of Folklore In the EARI School since 2014
• 42:41 Can also study chromatic harmonica at the Conservatoire in Trossingen and one in Rome
• 43:44 Ten minute question
• 45:26 Argentinian music is often learned by a combination of sheet music and by ear
• 45:50 Santiago teaches online and has also created an online video course
• 46:53 Previously taught at the FEN Festival in Berlin
• 47:22 Plays the Hohner Super 64 Performance chromatic, making use of that especially for octaves
• 48:15 Doesn’t use customisers, playing the chromatic out of the box but does sometimes send them for maintenance
• 48:46 Diatonic of choice is Hohner Marine Band
• 48:52 Mainly uses a C chromatic for everything, although does sometimes use an A chromatic
• 49:21 Tango music is in a range of keys, with some keys more common and minor keys very common
• 49:50 Has not pursued playing overblows on the diatonic for Argentinian music, but some other Argentine players do that
• 50:30 Uses a Shure SM58
• 50:41 Uses a Boss reverb pedal as the only effect
• 51:05 Requests sound engineer to reduce high frequencies and raise low frequencies
• 51:16 Likes to control reverb himself, using a small amount of reverb
• 52:13 Holds the mic when performing live, using mouth / throat / jaw vibratos, but uses hand effects when recording
• 53:00 Meeting the other players at Trossingen and the brotherhood of harmonica
• 54:54 New ensemble playing with a piano and double bass
• 55:37 Plans to travel to Asia to take tango there
• 55:52 New album with the piano and double bass likely being released later in 2026

Transcript

SPEAKER_04: 0:00

Santiago Alvarez joins me on episode 147. Santiago is a chromatic player from Buenos Aires who has dedicated himself to the folk traditions of Argentina, including writing a thesis on the history of the Argentine chromatic harmonica under the guidance of his mentor Franco Luciani. Specialising in tango, he explores the close musical relationship between the chromatic harmonica and the bandonian. Santiago has recorded with numerous Argentine artists, released his own album in 2019, forms widely across Latin America and Europe and teaches internationally, including recently at the World Harmonica Championships at Trossingen in 2025. He has also created an online harmonica course for Argentine music. This podcast is sponsored by Zidal Harmonicers. Visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.zidal eighteen forty-seven.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidalharmonicas. Hello, Neil. Thank you for having me. Oh it's a real pleasure to get you on, Santiago. And so I believe you're speaking to us from Buenos Aires in Argentina.

SPEAKER_01: 1:37

Yes, the capital of Argentina.

SPEAKER_04: 1:39

This is where I live, in the center of Buenos Aires. Oh, marvelous. And so that's a great big sprawling city with lots of music going on. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47

Exactly. 14 million inhabitants and uh many cultural life here.

SPEAKER_04: 1:53

Looking at how you got started playing harmonica, I I believe you started playing diatonic harmonica and and you know picking up blues harmonica as uh as people often do. Is that what got you started?

SPEAKER_01: 2:03

Yes, I been playing the harmonica uh since I was 16 years old. I got to chromatica uh when I was uh 23, from the 16 to 22 years old. Uh I was you know playing around with a diatonic harmonica trying to get into blues music, but I was doing it uh not in a professional sense. I was you know playing around and maybe gigging a little bit with blues music or music from the United States. But it was not uh in the sense uh trying to think myself as a professional musician that I later did it uh with the chromatica.

SPEAKER_04: 2:45

Yes, and you are predominantly a chromatic harmonica player, which we'll get into. Are you still playing the diatonic as well now?

SPEAKER_01: 2:51

Not performing. I do it uh in my house, I like it, uh, and I give classes of the tonic harmonica, but not I'm not a performance.

SPEAKER_04: 3:00

When you started learning blues harmonica, uh what's the blues scene like in Buenos Aires? Is was there a lot of blues going on there that you could uh learn from, or were you mainly learning from recordings?

SPEAKER_01: 3:10

Well, I was learning from from recordings, and uh the the blues scene in Argentina is quite big, I would say. In Buenos Aires, especially. There are many schools and many people who had these different blues styles, Chicago style, and also people who learn with the that was one thing that got me kind of interested was Howard Levy's approach. And there were some players here who who learned with him, also with Carlos Del Junco, and they were using these overblows, and I got a little bit into that. So I was for some years trying to study overblown, but then you know um I I felt that this was not the music that uh I was really touched by, so I stopped uh studying. It was I in a way try to make the tonic harmonica in a chromatic uh approach, so I stopped when I found out about the chromatic.

SPEAKER_04: 4:03

So when you were starting to learn overblows, were you then getting interested in music beyond blues? You know, with Howard Levy, he obviously plays quite a few different genres, including jazz, and you know, were you were you stretching out beyond blues?

SPEAKER_01: 4:15

Yes, actually, I was trying to, you know, uh learning some jazz music also. I mean the structure of the blues, the 12-bar blues, got me interested for a few years, and then I started, you know, my my music journey, started to always be interested in in uh folk music from different parts of the world. So I started you know trying to listen, especially not to study to perform, but listening to other kinds of genre, and just was one of it. And of course, with the Tunic Harmonica, this was um kind of limited for me. So yeah, it took a while for me to realize that the chromatic harmonica was a suitable instrument for me.

SPEAKER_04: 5:01

Yeah, and I think you heard Hugo Diaz, the uh the famous Argentinian chromatic player, and that that's what turned you on to the chromatic, was it? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01: 5:31

This is something that sometimes we Argentinian musicians are very critical about it because being an Argentinian, sometimes in the public sphere, in the private sphere also, in radio, TV, you're mostly exposed to foreign genres, no? Music from the United States quite a lot. And sometimes it's difficult to get into Argentinian music, even living in Buenos Aires in Argentina, being an Argentinian, you are more exposed to music from uh other countries and not that much to Argentinian music. So I would say that I had to search a little bit to get into Argentinian music. I started finding about these radio shows. For example, this was 2007-2008, so internet was not as much developed as it is now, no? So I was finding uh places where I could listen to Argentinian music, to tango music uh in particular, and um I got into orchestras, no tango orchestras, and listening to this kind of music, uh suddenly uh the sound of the harmonica of Hugo Diaz appeared, and uh, as you say, it was like a starting point in me because his sound and also the approach that he was giving to Argentinian music was something that I realized I wanted to do and um I wanted to keep developing it. So I felt that emotional approach to his playing. I think something started there.

SPEAKER_04: 7:11

So Hugo Diaz is one of several, you know, Argentina has got a rich heritage of uh I think chromatic players in this sense, yeah. So there are there are other players as well. So, what sort of um years was Hugo Diaz active?

SPEAKER_01: 7:25

Well, he's a musician that comes from the north of Argentina, uh from a province province which is called Santiago Lestero. This is in the north of Argentina with a very big influence in folk music, no, especially influenced by countries that limit with that region in Argentina, which are Bolivia, the north of Chile, and also certain connection with the like Peruvian roots also. We call this music and from the Andes, and this folk music was Ugo Dia's first connection. He is not from Buenos Aires, so his first music was not tango, but folk music. Maybe we can later talk about this. I developed my thesis on the history of Argentine chromatic harmonica this year to finish my bachelor's degree, and I started studying about Ugo Diaz's life because he's one of the main characters. He developed his career from the 40s to the 70s of the 20th century, and he was mainly an important figure in the 60s, 60s and 70s. Not only in the harmonica world, which was in a way almost few people were playing, but in the in the Argentinian music scene, no, he transpassed the chromatic harmonica and he was one of the big figures of Argentine instrumental interpretation. I would say he was one of the creators of the idea of a soloist playing a melody without being a singer, no? So he was quite an important figure despite the fact of being a player of an instrument which was uh not that much played.

SPEAKER_04: 9:28

And so what kind of heritage does the chromatic harmonica got in Argentina? Because I know in Brazil they had the Herring Factory, which was I think a sort of subset of Hona. So that's that's kind of what helped the harmonica become very popular in Brazil.

SPEAKER_01: 9:46

It's actually quite interesting. I was two weeks before in the World Harmonica Festival in Drosingen performing, and I got to talk with Martin Hafner, who was director of the museum for many years, the harmonica museum, which is in Drosingen. Also talking about my thesis, I wanted to find out about the importation of harmonicas to Latin America and especially to Argentina, and he showed me a book of the honor history, and uh he showed me he sent me some importation data. No, uh, we found out that um Brazil and Argentina and also Mexico were uh countries where harmonicas were exported from Germany quite a lot, starting from the 30s on. He showed me several uh graphics, for example, in 1937, Argentina received more harmonicas than Brazil, and in in the 50s less, you know, it was moving quite a lot, but Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, and of course the United States were receiving quite a lot of harmonicas. And I believe that this in a way helped the expansion, of course, of the instrument. And also we have in Argentina another German instrument uh that in a way defines the sound of most of the folk music that we have are also tango music, which is the bandonion. It's a German instrument that was created almost at the same time and then midst of um the 19th century, in this case in Krefeld, Germany, and uh the instrument came with the immigration and uh defined the sounds of folk Argentinian music. So the harmonica is very much connected to this instrument because it's also a read instrument, also the accordion. Yes, it's sort of a type of accordion, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. It's kind of an accordion. It functions differently, but uh you know it's the same family. The accordion, the bandonion, and the harmonica are free reads instruments. Yeah. So in this sense, Croati Harmonica, you know, started being used in a way trying to get this sound that the bandonion was having in Argentina music. So it always in every every generation you have at least five representants who play the instrument and keep these techniques developed that nowadays we call Argentinian chromatic um approach. You know, it's a it's it's kind of unique, this sound that we we produce uh to perform Argentinian music.

SPEAKER_04: 12:46

So this thesis you mentioned there, so that's a thesis you're currently working on, is it?

SPEAKER_01: 12:51

Well, actually, I finished the the bachelor's degree, I presented it, but I'm um, you know, still developing, and I think this will be a work that hopefully in the future I will end up uh writing a book about it. I would love to do it because there are many things that are still appearing. Uh, for example, this information that uh Nr. Hafnal uh shared with me. Uh we didn't know that many harmonicas were uh exported to Argentina, and now this information is still coming.

SPEAKER_04: 13:22

Fantastic. Yeah, so yeah, hopefully you'll turn that into the book. Is it possible for people to read your thesis? Have you got it available online anywhere?

SPEAKER_01: 13:29

Yes, I have it. I'm in the process of making the correct translation in English, but uh it's online, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 13:36

I so I I will share it, of course. So yeah, so fantastic um Tansioga, yes, great research there in the history of Argentinian harmonica. But then m so then moving on through your own playing. I I believe that uh you discovered a um a sort of teacher or an inspiration in uh in Franco Luciano and uh what you took some lessons with him.

SPEAKER_01: 13:57

Yes, uh I did in 2008. I actually spent one year in the United States, in New York, actually, studying music. And when I got back to Argentina, I was uh studying sociology. I'm a sociologist also in the university. I went back to Argentina and I contacted San Colusiani, which is uh one of the main figures, I would say the main figure actually nowadays represents Argentinian harmonica playing. He's um a top musician uh in Argentinian world, not only in tango but also in folk uh rural music. And he travels quite a lot and is very recognized. And he's the one that taught me how to hold the Carmen Deharmonica, how to make sound out of it, and uh in a way develop these Argentinian uh techniques that we we have and uh we approach to Argentinian music. I spent uh one year and a half studied with him, and then he stopped giving classes because he was traveling quite a lot. I was one of his latest students, then he stopped uh giving classes uh because he was performing and is still performing quite a lot. So I feel lucky to have met him, and he he was also the director of this thesis that I mentioned before. So he knows quite a lot about the history of the harmonica, and we got in touch in this case to talk about not to perform but to develop this Argentinian uh history of the instrument that was never told before in an organized way. So uh yeah, Frank Luciani is quite an inspiration for me, I would say.

SPEAKER_04: 16:16

And so then you obviously you mentioned there that you focused on playing uh Argentinian folk music and also tango. So let's touch on that side now. So I believe your interest in tango is that you um you wanted to become a tango dancer uh instead of a musician at one point, is that right?

SPEAKER_01: 16:31

Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, tango is a form of uh art, I would say. It has many layers. One of the layers that it has is also the dancing part, which is one of the um most recognized worldwide aspects of tango, no? The dancing aspect. At a certain point, uh 10 years ago, I was very much into dancing. I was going to these milongas, which is the name of the dancing hall where people get together at night to dance quite a lot. Uh almost three or four days a week. And uh these milongas go till very late, you know, four in the morning, five in the morning. And uh I was not able to wake up in the other day to study music. So, you know, um at a certain point I said, no, I have to stop with this because I I really want to be a professional in music, which is something that took me a while to realize. As you can see, I was doing sociology at the beginning, I was dancing tango, doing many things, but then I realized that I wanted to make this out of my life, and uh I stopped with the other things, and then you know I became a full musician. And also I needed to learn quite fast because I thought I was, you know, a bit old to do certain things. So I stopped as it. But I think I I got from that experience quite a lot of uh background in terms of uh how to perform, no, because you feel the space of the notes. No, sometimes you have an idea of a rhythm, for example, of tempo which is abstract, but when you dance you make this part of your body, no? So it makes you realize that uh you know the movement, the tempo, the rhythm is not abstract, it is also something that occupies space, no? So that's something I developed in the years that I I danced tango quite a lot.

SPEAKER_04: 18:34

Sure, and I'm sure it helps playing the music, right? If you know how to do the dance too, you're very much involved with it. So uh the the previous person I've had on the podcast who plays tango music is Joe Powers, I'm sure you're aware of. So he also does the tango dance, and and he sort of saw it as part of it as well. So but the tango sounds sounds great on the on the chromatic, doesn't it? It's a really accessible music. I know a piano player and I've been playing she she's from Finland where tango is really popular in Finland, and she really loves tango, so I played uh a couple of tangles with her and I've sort of got into more playing tangles, and it's very accessible, and it just sounds great on the chromatic, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01: 19:26

Yeah, exactly. It is because what I mentioned before of the proximity with this other read instrument, which is the bandonion, that defines the tango sound, no? For example, Astor Piazzola, no, a great composer of tango, uh worldwide known, he's a band on your player. Then you have other figures uh like uh Dino Salusi, Hannibal Troilo, tango composers that define the sound, so it is possible to imitate the sound with a chromatic harmonica very much. Finnish tango is something also, I mean in Finland the tango is is well known, but they have also their own tango, which is not tango from Argentina. So yeah, it's also an an interesting fact, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 20:14

Yeah, so you you mentioned uh that you're imitating the bandonian to some extent. So, you know, what is it about that which is similar? Obviously, we've talked about it being a read instrument, but you're playing on an on an accordion type instrument, they're playing lots of multiple notes at the same time, I'm I'm guessing chords and things. So you know what is it that you're taking from the bandonian?

SPEAKER_01: 20:32

Uh well actually the bandonian works if you press one button, two reads sound at the same time, at the difference of an octave, no? So this is what we mainly do in we we use quite a lot the position of an octave play in the chromatic harmonica in order to use that effect. Yeah. And also we do this, for example, delayed octave effect, which is tia tia tia tia tia. This is something that bandon players use quite a lot. And also, another important fact is that in tango music, the melody, your approach to a melody in two general ways. Now, one is the uh legato melodical aspect, and the other one is the rhythmical aspect. And this comes also from the abandoning use, and also it comes from the fact that the Argentinian tango is a music that was created from the beginning to be danced, but doesn't have a percussive instrument in its original formation. This is a very important fact. Unique, I would say, if you think about other, for example, genres of Latin America, they all have a percussive instrument that helps to understand the rhythm. Well, tango doesn't have this, and it's a danceable form. So all the instruments that were connected with tango from the beginning, in a way had to develop a rhythmical approach of interpreting, not only a legato singable approach, but also a rhythmical approach. So the rhythmical approaches of the bandonion in a way uh we can imitate those with the harmonica, no, so it's it's a very rich approximation, no?

SPEAKER_04: 22:28

So at what stage did you decide to become a professional musician and you know, and how did that develop for you?

SPEAKER_01: 22:34

Well, I think it uh this uh came progressively in my life, and I'm still making me questions about it in a way how to you know live uh in objective facts, uh, being a musician, which is something that in Argentina it's not quite easy to do, because um, you know, that we are going through several crises, no, and we are not as protected as uh, for example, uh Europe uh in terms of um artists, you know, uh state helps and all these kind of things. So it's a kind of struggle, but I would say in in in fact we have as a society. But besides that, I think this is what I am. No, I cannot do other things uh with such a passionate approach, I would say. So that's what keeps me alive and connected with it, and uh trying to find out how to become a chromatic harmonica player as a professional musician. You must know this, but I think that harmonica players never have you know before spaces to occupy. No, we have to create our own spaces. Uh there is no orchestra that needs a chromatic harmonica, there is no institution that needs a chromatic harmonica teacher or the Tony Harmonica teacher. You know, we have to create these spaces. And uh I think my generation, as I was talking, for example, with many uh harmonica players in in Trosingen some weeks before, are open in these spaces and are trying to in a way change the common sense of the harmonica not being a professional instrument and trying to work hard and study and try to make it as professional as we can get.

SPEAKER_04: 24:33

Yes, and you're doing a great job with some great high-level playing. Again, just touching on the tango music, it's very passionate, you know, very emotional and and and and strong sounding, right? And getting that out, the chromatic harmonica, well using oxives, you say, to get a lot of a lot of the power out. Is that that part of the secret for getting that real passion out for the music that's needed?

SPEAKER_01: 25:08

Yeah, exactly. Uh the passion I would say, uh, for example, this is something that um when I ended my concert in Trosingen again, people pointed out, no. I mean uh tango, it's passionate in the sense that it is a form of art that was created more than 150 years old, and it's a mixture of different cultures, you know, European uh culture, African culture, uh basically, and uh created in Latin America, you know. So this is what defines in a way. It's difficult to explain what passion means in terms of the music, but I would say it's this like you can express emotions through the melody, but you could be soft, you could be harsh, you you have to create these tensions, no, and the the listening listener gets this idea, no? It's not always the same, the same approach, but you have you perform great tension in tango.

SPEAKER_00: 26:23

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SPEAKER_04: 26:57

Getting into your uh your recording career, so uh well the first acts I've got you down is with the Tanino duo. Yes. So this is with your uh Nicholas Perez on guitar. So this is in 2010, you you got together with Nicholas, and I think you were what twenty-four years old at this stage. I think you were born in 1986, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:16

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04: 27:17

Yeah. Well, your first album was called Tango and Folklore. So, as you said, that combination of uh of Argentinian tango and Argentinian folk music, that's uh what you focused on then, and and uh it certainly carried on with that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 27:43

I try to be open in that regard, and many of us of the Coravanti Harmonica players try to focus on both tango music from Buenos Aires and folk music from other jeep regions of Argentina, and I did it from the beginning now with this group that I had which was called Danino Duo The Last Hit.

SPEAKER_04: 28:03

This setting was with a guitar player, that's a sort of classical guitar, I think, isn't it? Yeah. A traditional tango um band, what has uh obviously a band of neon and a uh what a violin and and what else. So you you've departed from that to play with the because it's not generally a guitar player, is there in a tango band?

SPEAKER_01: 28:22

Well it depends, but the guitar has uh a lot of um uh history in tango, I would say. Not usually uh in big orchestras the the Spanish guitar is not that much used, but uh in these small combos, like for example a duo now, guitar and bandone they go very well. So uh there's a unique form of playing the guitar. In this case, it's not the electric guitar, no, but the Spanish guitar, acoustic Spanish guitar, which is normally used. And it sounds very well.

SPEAKER_04: 28:56

Oh yeah, it's it's a great combination. So you made three albums with the uh with Nicolas Perez there, and and so yes, some great great sounding stuff it is too. You've also played with other guitar players, Argentinian guitar players, some very high-level guitar players, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 29:28

Uh yeah, I did several several albums and the guitar players I've been playing since the beginning. I played, for example, with uh Juan Falou and uh Rudy Flores, who are musicians now that they have uh 60, 70 years old, and um they you know in a way helped to shape the way of performing the the guitar. And um, you know, I I had them as guests in the cities that I recorded the There is one that I recorded called Domingo in 2019. And I had Juan Falou there and uh Rudy Flores.

SPEAKER_04: 30:08

And uh you know, I always like to play with uh guitars. So that Domingo album you mentioned, I think that's your first solo album, isn't it? Yeah, exactly. It's a wonderful album, uh beautiful playing and it works so so nicely. Uh you do quite a lot where you um where you're playing unison notes with the guitar. That is that quite a feature of uh of the music or your approach?

SPEAKER_01: 30:45

Yeah, I think it's um something that uh we use an as an arrangement.

SPEAKER_04: 30:50

It's very effective. You also sort of play double stops chords on the chromatic as well. Is that you know filling up the sound, making that bigger, passionate, more passionate sound?

SPEAKER_01: 31:17

Well, yeah, yeah. I use many techniques in that in this sense. I would say, for example, that the the change of emboshure is one of the most uh unique Argentinian aspects. Now we we play um backer position, tongue blocking, and octaves in the same song we change, no? Uh so these double stops, uh this tongue slap, these kind of uh effects help in a way to emphasize the rhythmical aspect, for example, imitating the the bandonian. So yeah, we are always trying to use uh I I say we because we Argentinian Croatia Harmonica players uh have uh this approach. I would say it's not my I I don't see myself as a person who uses his own techniques, but also who who is developing the techniques that uh were created before.

SPEAKER_04: 32:14

So uh when you're playing single knots, do you generally use pucker and you use octaves you're playing tongue blocking, or do you use tongue blocking too for other times?

SPEAKER_01: 32:25

My approach is uh basically packer and octiplane. And sometimes I use uh tongue blocking. But there are other players, for example Hugo Diaz, no, who were who was playing mainly in tongue blocking and sometimes in octaves, but he was not using the packer position. And Franco Luciani used packers position and octoplane quite a lot, and sometimes mouth and tongue blocking. So I I would say that we used kind of a mixture.

SPEAKER_04: 32:54

And so using, like you say, tongue slaps it gives you a certain percussion and attack, doesn't it? Maybe similar to kind of traditional Chicago blues tongue blocking techniques where you were using those. Is that something that you picked up from and you know bringing those kind of percussive sounds from there?

SPEAKER_01: 33:11

In my case, no, I I I got it from uh Hugo Diaz, and I don't I don't know where he got this from. No, I I would say that he tried to imitate uh the folk instruments that were um important at his time. One of those is the bombeguero, which is a percussive instrument from the north of Argentina, and his rhythmic approach, if you listen carefully, comes, I would say, from this percussive instrument. I don't think he was influenced by blues Chicago players, no. I think he created his percussive approach from the rhythmical elements that were in the music itself, no, and they then we incorporated that to the Kravanti technique.

SPEAKER_04: 33:57

So another great thing you did with the Tenino duo is that you appeared in 2016 at the uh Celtic Connections Festival in Glasgow, which is a very prestigious folk traditional music festival that takes place in Scotland. So and in that you're playing in a in a chamber orchestra, so it was you mentioned playing in an orchestra setting. So that you know so you've got more musicians with you, and you've got that that chamber music orchestral setting. So uh tell us about that, you know, your approach to that. You are you reading music in that, and you know what how did that fit in in the orchestral setting?

SPEAKER_01: 34:30

Well, yeah, uh it's a that experience was 2016 in the Kelti Connections in Edinburgh Festival. At that time we had the opportunity to share because the idea of the Kelti Connection Festival is to create in a way a collaboration between local musicians and the people who come from abroad. And uh we were invited to perform with the Max Max Falls Chamber Orchestra, which is a group based in Scotland. And we prepared the program based in Astor Piazzola music. And we got together to rehearse there a couple of times and then we played the concert. I think it was in Glasgow Royal Concert Hall, which is a very beautiful setting. So many people played his compositions. We played once one uh piece that he composed, uh which is called Homage Aliash at that time, and it's written for bandonion, guitar, and string orchestra. So we made the reduction, the adaptation for to a harmonica, guitar, and string section, and you know it worked very well. We did um the concert and then a little recording. So, you know, uh I think the idea of performing will with orchestra uh is something that I like very much, and I'm looking forward to still doing it.

SPEAKER_04: 36:53

So, and in addition, you play with many sort of contemporary Argentinian acts and folk and tango Ensembles, yeah. So you play with with numerous ones, the Argento Trio and Yes, I try to do several collaborations.

SPEAKER_01: 37:26

I think it helps to shape the basics, shape myself. It's something that Argentinian musicians do quite a lot now because we have a traditional repertoire that we all know, and we try to create our own interpretations of it.

SPEAKER_04: 37:54

And you appeared widely across Latin America but also in Europe. Yeah, you've toured in Europe numerous times, and so you you you know you've been into Europe quite a few times, and obviously you said you've just been to Trossingen and done some some concerts as well while you've been over in Europe this time, yeah?

SPEAKER_01: 38:09

Yes, I've been traveling to Europe since ten years, and uh the last uh tour that I did ended two weeks ago, and it was my sixteenth tour. Wow. So I've been traveling quite a lot, I've been to England many times, uh to Scotland, um yeah, many countries in in Europe, mainly because of tango music, because tango is very well received. Every small town that you go in Europe has a Milonga, for example, to play, to go to dance. And I'm trying to I I did quite um numerous tours related to the tango tango world, and at the moment I'm trying to expand my my professional line of work in Europe, uh not only to tango world, uh related to Argentinian culture, but also to the harmonica culture. That's why I started as you know, I'm an endorser with uh with Honor, and I'm a Honor artist, and I'm um connected with the uh with the brand uh for many for some years. No, I was in the Honor Harmonica Master Workshop organized by um Steve Baker a couple of years ago. I was in the World Harmonica Festival uh this year performing in the gala session uh with uh artists as um uh Antonio Serrano, Siwa Leo, Konstantin Reinfeld, Minami Risa from Japan, Sirius Ensemble that night. And uh I think it was um an honor for me to perform there. But and also uh responsibility in the sense that honor people gave the Argentinian Romantic Harmonica scene space in the Alanite in the festival. So I felt uh responsible for that and uh very happy because I think that the the approach that we have in Argentina is getting little by little known around the world. And uh I'm looking forward to keep traveling to Europe and uh also developing my my travels to Asia. I want to go to Asia also uh you know keep being uh a professional traveler. I like that.

SPEAKER_04: 40:25

Yeah, no, you're doing a great job representing it. And again, you talk about tango being popular, it's very popular all around the world, you say, because of the dancing. But also I definitely encourage people obviously listening to you to get inspired. And you know, the tango music's very accessible on the Chromatic Home Moniker, isn't it? It's not the the the melodies themselves aren't very difficult to play. Obviously, you want to apply the correct techniques to make it sound authentic, but the melodies are very accessible, aren't they, for people to learn and play?

SPEAKER_01: 41:08

Yeah, yeah, it's a it's an accessible kind of music. And uh it works kind of in the sense that you have to make your own interpretation. This is the most important fact I would say. So even if you're not a chromatic harmonica player who wants to dedicate to Argentinian music, just to learn the approach of of the music, it can help to develop your own techniques on the music that you are playing, no? So yeah, it's very interesting what we have developed here.

SPEAKER_04: 41:40

Yeah, and lots of very well-known recognizable tunes as well. Like a song I love to play is La Composita, and that's a song that everybody recognizes, and it always is always very popular when uh when I play it. So yeah, it's a great song. So yeah, definitely encourage people to uh to learn a tango tune or two. As well as um, you know, you just mentioned you're teaching at Trossingen and the master's workshops there. And so you also teach in Buenos Aires, yeah. You you're teaching at the School of Popular Music, uh, and you're the are you are you the professor of the history of tango and history of folklore in the in the in a school in uh Buenos Aires as well?

SPEAKER_01: 42:27

Yes, yes. I'm um teacher in uh there is an institution here which is called Cula Musica Popular de Avellaneda. For 10 years, you can study chromatic harmonica there, which is kind of unique. There is the experience of the Trosingen Conservatory in Germany, and there is one conservatory in Rome where you can study chromatic harmonica, led by Charluca Leitera, no? And also the experience in Argentina, which is the school where I give classes, and there are other two teachers there, Lucas Chamorro and Nahuel Percal, and it's a unique in the world. You can study chromatic harmonica in three different regions. You can study in jazz, in tango, and in folk. I'm the folk harmonica teacher, and then I work also in other institutions as a professor of history in tango and in folk music. So I do different things, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 43:44

Okay, so uh a question asked each time, Santiago's. If you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing? So perhaps you could focus uh this on people who are interested in learning some some tango on the chromatic. What would you advise they they um spend 10 minutes practicing on? Ten minutes.

SPEAKER_01: 44:02

Well, for example, it depends on what what you want to do. Is if it's a warm-up now, or if you want to perform a song. But if you are already in the stage of learning a song, I would recommend that uh you know these first steps are very important in order to incorporate the information. Once you learn the melody correctly, uh you can play around with it, creating you know, these effects that we were mentioning, these embossures that we were mentioning that we use, and also uh embellishments, no? So you learn a simple melody in a simple way, and then you start you know playing around with it. You uh uh play with one embosure, then you use another embosure, or you play in different octaves the same melody, or you use um chromatic approximation embellishments, or more than these kind of things. Just to learn one phrase, for example, and play it different ways, so you you got the idea, the feeling of it. I think this is the most beautiful thing about Argentinian music as a popular genre that it obliges you to create your own approach. That uh it's a very creative process, I would say.

SPEAKER_04: 45:25

Do people who learn Argentinian music generally use sheet music or learn by ear or or is it a combination of both? It's a combination, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 45:34

Uh we mainly use, for example, the listen to recordings now of the original piece, the original composer, uh and from that we create our our own version. But also we we use music sheet, of course.

SPEAKER_04: 45:50

And of course, if people want to learn further, they can always find a teacher and and uh you teach uh Argentinian tango and uh folk music online. So are you available for people to if they're interested in that in having some lessons?

SPEAKER_01: 46:02

Yes, I'm a music teacher. I give classes online, and also uh something that might be interesting is that I have released a couple of years ago uh an online course which is called Argentinian Harmonica, where you can study not only the tango but also folk songs. And the I did that with the Harmonica School of Berlin led by Marco Jovanovich. We together created a course. If you want to contact me, uh you can get it. It talks about this this approach that we have in Necromatic Harmonica. You have backing tracks, there's an exercise section, and uh there's a technique of the there's an explanation of the technique in video and audio format. So this is something that could be interesting for people who want to get in into Argentinian music.

SPEAKER_04: 46:53

And you attended the Fenn Festival in in in uh Berlin there, didn't you? With which which Marco did run. I I understand he stopped running that recently, but yeah, I had Marco on the podcast, he's a fantastic player too, so yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's cool, cool friend. Yeah, so um so yeah, you've been to to Berlin there and taught at the Fenn Festival, yeah. So that's cool. Yeah. So uh yeah, great stuff. So yeah, that's that's available. I put your uh contact details up on the podcast page. So we'll get in the last section now and talk through uh the gear you use and the approaches. So uh talking about you've also mentioned you're um you're an endorsee for Honor. I believe you play the uh the Super 64 mainly, do you? The 16-hole chromatic.

SPEAKER_01: 47:30

Exactly. I played the 64 chromatic, uh Super 60 um uh now I'm I'm playing uh the the black model Super64 performance, and I like this model because as I mentioned, we use quite a lot the octave play. So the lower octave that uh this instrument gives you helps in a way to enrich the sound. Yeah, that's the instrument I like to play the most.

SPEAKER_04: 47:55

Yeah, with those uh with those big octaves in the lower octaves. Exactly. Yeah. Do you use customizers? Do you do any setup yourself with the uh the chromatics you use?

SPEAKER_01: 48:20

No, no, basically I use it as it as it comes from from the fabric. Uh there is um one uh Lutier that uh works here in Argentina, his name is Roy Hartman. Sometimes I give him my my instruments for a little checkup, but normally from from the fabric.

SPEAKER_04: 48:38

And you you mentioned you do play some diatonics too. Which diatonics do you like to use? Honor ones. Honor ones.

SPEAKER_01: 48:45

Uh I I like marine band and uh yeah, these kind of instruments.

SPEAKER_04: 48:52

What about the key of chromatics you're using? Are you always using a C or does it suit the Tangon folk music to to use different keys sometimes?

SPEAKER_01: 49:00

With the chromatic harmonica, basically I'm always using C instrument for certain specific things. Sometimes I use I have a chromatic harmonica periactive in in A in La, and I use it for that. But it's kind of very specific. No, normally I use C harmonum.

SPEAKER_04: 49:21

What sort of range of keys does tango music come in? Is it is it generally uh a small number of keys or is it quite varied in the in the key?

SPEAKER_01: 49:28

No, it varies. It varies, yeah, quite a lot. But there are some uh keys that we use um more than other ones, no minor keys, of course, because tango is mostly minor, and uh D minor, for example, A minor, E minor, these kind of um uh scales are the most used.

SPEAKER_04: 49:50

And you mentioned earlier on that you did start learning overblows on the diatonic. Is that something that you're still interested in? Is it possible to play you know tango music on a diatonic using overblows? Is that something you might pursue in future or or just chromatic for you?

SPEAKER_01: 50:04

Uh since I met the chromatic, I think the uh I stopped developing the idea of using overblows in a in the diatonic because I I prefer the sound that comes from the slide in the chromatic. It is possible to play, and there are some Argentinians who do that in the diatonic harmonica, but uh it's not my cup of tea. I prefer to do it with the chromatic. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 50:30

What about um amplification when when you're performing? What do you like to use?

SPEAKER_01: 50:35

My my year is simple. I have my microphone, which is kind of a sure 58, and the only thing that I use uh that I always use is my own reverb. I have a pedal, no? Which is a voice pedal. Uh it has a reverb, so I I like the sound that comes from that reverb. I always go to concerts with that uh equipment, and you know, this is that scampless thing I do. And normally I um I ask the sound engineer to lower down the high frequencies and up the lower ones. That's normally what I do.

SPEAKER_04: 51:16

So the reverb, you a boss pedal, you say. So you like to use a pedal rather than say using the reverb on an amp or the PA because you control it more on the per the certain sound of the reverb. Uh you collect to control it yourself, do you?

SPEAKER_01: 51:29

Yes, I like I like to control myself also because I like the river that comes from the instrument. It doesn't modify the sound of the harmonica, it just prolongs it uh uh very well. So and I like to be in control of that. I think reverb is important in the harmonica to to you know emphasize the certain aspects of the sound.

SPEAKER_04: 51:52

And does that help with the tango particularly because it you know maybe fills the sound, gives it a bigger sound as well? I mean, how how much reverb are using? Is it just a touch or is it a little bit more than that?

SPEAKER_01: 52:03

No, no, just a touch. Just a touch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 52:06

Yeah, just to just to give some body to the sound a little bit, yeah, which maybe the the chromatic uses. Uh so uh do you use any hand effects playing tango on Argentinian folk music, or are you holding the mic in your hand and you know close up to the harmonica?

SPEAKER_01: 52:21

When I perform, I hold the mic in my hand. Uh so there are no hand vibratos that I use. I use uh mouth vibratos, jaw vibratos, throat vibratos, but when I record I have a dynamic microphone so I use hand vibrato. But for performing, uh no, no hand vibrato.

SPEAKER_04: 53:00

Well obviously you just mentioned you've just been to Trossingen, and the great that the World Harmonica Festival just happened a few weeks ago, and I'm sure you had a great time there and met uh met many other harmonica players. Yeah, so tell us about Trossingen and how much you enjoyed it there.

SPEAKER_01: 53:14

Well, uh as I said before, I'm very lucky um having the opportunity to be there and to share uh Argentinian harmonic approach. And also I met you know people that um um I was I was studying their their approaches into music, uh, for example, and people like Shasu Wattani, Sigmund Gruben, that are musicians that I have always uh learned about their approach and the the having the possibility of going to their workshops and to see how they talk, how they how they see music, how they approach the grammatic harmonica was very interesting. Uh also to meet honor people like Gerard Mueller, uh to see them, you know, to talk is was I was very interested in that. Uh and also to see my contemporary musician, contemporary harmonica players that are developing the instrument in a very professional sense in different parts of the world. Um, you know, like uh Si We Li or from China, uh, to go to his workshop and to listen to him. I think that the harmonica has you know certain brotherhood that we share because we are not a lot. So I think uh this opportunity to get together and to to talk about the harmonica is something that everyone says that was uh needed, no? Needed for each of us. So the the atmosphere was uh happy in this sense. No, we were all feeling part of something which is more than us, no?

SPEAKER_04: 54:54

So you're just finishing off now, just about your future plans. I believe you're you're now working on a project, uh a tango project where you're using playing with a piano and double bass. Is that right? Is that the your current direction?

SPEAKER_01: 55:05

Exactly. Yeah, and this is the project that I presented in Drosingen uh with a piano and a bass, and planning to keep doing that, recording a CD. And uh keep developing my my thesis and uh record, yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 55:52

When can we expect your uh your new album to come out with the piano and double bass?

SPEAKER_01: 55:56

I'm still uh in the process of um deciding the songs and certain arrangements, so but I think maybe next year, at the end, it will be something that uh maybe uh on already.

SPEAKER_04: 56:10

Well, I look forward to hearing that. I'm sure it sounds wonderful, and again your Domingo album is uh is fantastic. So thanks so much for joining today, Santiago Alvarez. It's been great to talk to you and fascinating to hear about the Argentinian music and the tango, and yeah, and you're doing a great job representing it. Thank you. Thank you, Neil, for having me. It was a pleasure to talk to you. Once again, thanks to Zidl for sponsoring the podcast. Be sure to check out the great range of harmonicas and products at www.zidel1847.com or on Facebook or Instagram at Zidalharmonicas. Many thanks to Santiago for joining me today. It was a real pleasure speaking with him. His depth of knowledge about Argentinian styles on the chromatic harmonica is remarkable, and tango just sounds incredible on the instrument. And thanks to you all for listening again. If you're enjoying the podcast, please spread the word to your harmonica playing friends. Nothing beats good old word of mouth. You can also rate and subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast player or app. I'd sign off now with a track from Santiago's album Domingo. This is the tango piece, a Miranda.