Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast
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Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast
Steve 'West' Weston interview
Steve West Weston is the man in the hot seat in episode two.
Steve grew up among the vibrant music scene in Essex, listening to Dr Feelgood among others.
He started out playing in various bands on keyboard before finding his harmonica mojo as the front man in West Weston and the Bluesonics, and he hasn't looked back since.
He has become the harmonica player of choice for Mud Morganfield when he's touring Europe, as well as playing with Trickbag in Scandinavia, and then playing on the number 1 album with Wilko Johnson and Roger Daltrey, no less.
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Hi, Neil Warren here again and welcome to another episode of the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast with more interviews with some of the finest harmonica players around today. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and also check out the Spotify playlist where some of the tracks discussed during the interviews can be heard. Quick word from my sponsor now, the Lone Wolf Blues Company, makers of effects pedals, microphones and more, designed for harmonica. Remember, when you want control over your tone, you want Lone Wolf. Steve West-Weston is the man in the hot seat in episode 2. Steve grew up among the vibrant music scene in Essex, listening to Dr. Feelgood amongst others. He started out playing in various bands on keyboard, before finding his harmonica mojo as the frontman in West-Weston and the Bluesonics. and he hasn't looked back since. Steve has become the harmonica player of choice for Mud Morganfield when he's touring Europe, as well as playing with Trickbag in Scandinavia, and then playing on a number one album with Wilco Johnson and Roger Daltrey, no less.
UNKNOWN:.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, thank you. Welcome to Steve West-Weston to the podcast. So, hi Steve, how are you doing? I'm fine, thank you. Thanks very much for talking to me. And you live in Essex, yeah? Is it in Southend you live? Well, I live in Leon C now. I've always been an Essex guy. I was born in South Bend Fleet and then when I was 10 I moved to Canby Island and stayed there until I was about 17 or 18. I left home, went to Croydon. finished my apprenticeship and engineer up there and then moved back down again and sort of lived in Southend and the Lee area ever since. Did you grow up on playing the harmonica around there? Was there any particular scene or did you go
SPEAKER_00:to London to do that? No, there
SPEAKER_02:was a massive scene because when I was at school kind of a few years ahead of me was all the Dr. Feelgood guys which were Canby boys and And when I was at school, I saw them on a program called The Dirty Scene on TV. And I can remember just thinking, this is everything I love about music. I've mucked around on the piano since I was a kid, not having any lessons, but it was just... In the 60s, every British house had a piano, more or less, you know, it was always part of the furniture.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you played piano with the big town playboys. Yeah, I played in a band called Rent Party for years, South End Band, Jump Drive Band.
SPEAKER_02:Were you playing harmonica then as well? I did towards the end of my time, you know, I was five or six years with them. You started more as a piano player, though. Oh, definitely, yeah. Yeah, I was playing, I guess, I mean, I was completely self-taught. I mean, totally. I can't really know music. So I was playing in the playground in a school room with the windows open in the junior school playground. And I would have been 10 then, I guess, 9 or 10. And really basics kind of stuff, something around in a kind of a rock and roll way that a 10-year-old might do. But an all... My mate stopped and didn't say a word. It was quite bizarre when I look back, you know. So, yeah, I started on the piano. Right. And so when did you pick up the harmonica? Was it later? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was later. I was, I'm guessing, I'm trying to remember, I must have been about 13, 14. My dad bought, we got a record player. We never had a record player, but someone gave me a record player. And my dad said, I'll go and buy you some records. So he went to Woolworths and he bought four or five LPs. And I can remember they were 50p each. One was a reggae one. I love that one. One was by 10.7. One was Boogie Woogie Explosions by a bloke called Precious Clarence Turner. Boogie Woogie piano player. I learned most of my piano playing off of that record. And This Is The Blues. which had various artists on it. I mean, it had Muddy Waters on there, Sonny Boy, Junior Wells was on there. Loved it. Absolutely loved it. So Woolworths was the source of all your musical influences then? Well, yeah, the rotary rack with the 50p bargains on, you know, and he went there. But I had an interest in the harmonica before that. I'd heard it on the television. I heard two things. I just loved the sound of it. One was Hard Day's Night when John Lennon was playing I Should Have Known Better on the train and the other one was actually a guy I've sort of researched it later in life. Robert McClung was his name and he was a Hollywood harmonica player, played in Hollywood films and he was in a 1936 film called Pigskin Parade with Judy Garland and he had a bit part in it and he was just this country yokel bumpkin who played harmonica and it was proper sort of fox chase harmonica and I saw it on a black and white telly and just remembering thinking what the hell was that all about I love it I love that I really loved it. So after that and all those influences, then we got this record. It's something I really want to get the hang of. And I got my dad to buy me a harmonica for a Christmas present, I think. But I've got a chromatic. I thought I wanted a chromatic because I knew nothing about it. Is that the first harmonica you got was a chromatic? Yeah, a chromatic. Yeah, just a regular 12-hole chromatic. in C and I just assumed that the button would give you the blues notes if you wanted to be bluesy that's what I thought so I spent a long time trying to play these bits on records and thinking it doesn't sound anything like this thing on the record player, you know, it just doesn't sound the same at all. Okay, so you had a chromatic for quite a while, and so that's... I did for a couple of years, so I guess I took two or three years, lots of really, I remember really sore lips with it, really hurt my lips, and just not understanding why it wouldn't do, why the sound is so completely different to this, you know. Yeah, so obviously you do play chromatic now, is that Did that help you develop, and did you carry on playing chromatic for that time, or did you go back to it as a blues thing later on? I went much, much later. So I gave up. I just thought, kind of giving up on it. And then I know I must have been 17, and I was in Southend, in Hodges& Johnson's, the local music shop at the time, and in the Hohner Harmonica case, there was one, and it just said blues harp written on it. And I just thought, that's got to be the fun, you know. Yeah. And I bought one in, it was in E, a ridiculously high thing, and loved it, and it just fell into place. Your first one, Daytonic, was in E, was it? Yeah, it was an E one, I remember it being in E. I didn't know anything about anything, you know. You would have found too many songs to play along with that. No, but I just played along by myself on that, you know, and I just thought, I'm breathing in and, breathing out, and it's making calls, and it's sounding like a train, you know. Yeah, well, you had a tough start, because you started playing on a chromatic, hoping to play blues e-diatonics, and then you had an e-diatonics, so yeah, you had to go through adversity to get to where you are. Yeah, that was fantastic, you know, and then, you know, also, Phil, because Libre Love playing harmonica, there's a local, a guy, Lou Lewis, playing harmonica, we, you know, once we were old enough to get it, watching these bands, you know, massive fans of them and really big influence. So you had a really good scene around Essex at that time. It was every single night. I mean, sadly, at 17, I went to Croydon to finish my apprenticeship. So I was on my own in London for two years, finishing off this apprenticeship while my pals were back here in Southend. you know, having a great time because it was, it was around, you know, 76, 77. I've got an older brother as well, he's 13 years old and he was, he was 13 years old so when you're much younger than you look up to your older siblings and he loved Georgie Fame and Voot Money and all these guys and I loved that music I really loved it so it sounds like you've got quite a wide variety of influences you certainly weren't bedding in the usual Little Walter, Sonny Boy yeah it's root stuff but it wasn't traditional blues harmonica stuff did you go through a phase of the more traditional blues harmonica you know 1950s type stuff Well, yeah. I mean, back in motorbike days, you know, we used to go in, you know, when I was 17. I was a young looking 17. I used to get thrown out of pubs when I was 21, you know, for not being old enough. So I was never really on the pub scene with my pals because I was just too young. You still look 21 now, so that's an advantage. Oh yeah, it's gone totally quick. That's when I got a proper job. My parents were particularly old, so they never really had any record collections, but other friends at school, they had uncles and and dads that grew up with the Rolling Stones and things and I can remember around my pal's house and there was blues albums there and we used to go through them and play them you know to see what it was all about and we We played a compilation, and I had my blues compilation as well, that this is the blues, and we looked at these people, listened to these people, and Muddy Waters came up, you know, and I can't even remember what songs were on there, probably Hoochie Coochie Man or some sort of classic one on these compilations.
UNKNOWN:.
SPEAKER_01:And we loved it. I absolutely
SPEAKER_02:loved it. Who'd have known back then you'd be playing with his son in years to come, Walter? Well, I mean, the story about that is that I had a bike, he got a car license, and his dad would lend him the car. It's my pal Paul Jones, we were pals for lots of years. And he said, do you fancy you saw on the NME that Muddy Waters was playing in London? He was playing the new Victoria Theatre in 1976, I think it was. No, 1977, I think it was. And he said, can I see him? I said, wow, yeah. Wow, that's great. So, you know, he bought tickets. We went up, and his dad's not, Mark Tuchel, Tina, he took it up there, parked out where he went, his new Vic, and of course, the band come out, and we didn't have a clue what he looked like, because we only had a record, and there was no picture of him, so we looked at all, because Muddy doesn't come out, he's about three songs before he comes out, and the band, I found out, you know, looking into it later, that it was Jerry Portnoy playing harmonica, and Bob Markoving was on there, I think John Primer might have been in the band, but it was, We were saying, it must be him on the guitar. No, no, I reckon it's him on the harmonica. I mean, who he was, all we knew was, Muddy Waters was next to this song, and we liked it. We thought we'd go and check him out. And he came out, like our three songs, like he did. He came out, and then it was obvious it was him. You know, this guy come out, and everyone cheered, and he got on the stall and played a set. So I got to see him twice, actually. I think I saw him again about 1979 at the Rainbow in London. you're so fortunate I really I've never seen never saw him play and actually I'm in my house now looking I've got a painting of Muddy Waters on my wall in the room that I'm in now he's my absolute favourite and of course he's had all the best harmonica players play with him all the years so it's kind of like that was the that was the cheer to get wasn't it to be Muddy Waters oh god it's the best I mean and I've Every time I play Mutt with his son, Mutt Morgan, I feel like I've got the best chair, the envy of every harmonica player. It's a wonderful job to have. I'm really, really honoured and humbled to have it. There's so many great harmonica players around. To be honest, Mutt never chose me. When he came to England, I was in the band that was picked to back him. So I was the first one he got. So I think that's how I ended up with the job. It was Big Joe Louis. I was playing with Big Joe Louis at the time, and it was his band that was booked to back him. So it was all his band backed him. We had Pete Wingfield on piano, the only extra. He wanted piano, so we got Pete in. And we did a few shows up in Peterborough when he came over. And he'd never been to England before. And he loved it. He just absolutely loved it. He couldn't believe that we all played like this over here. Yeah. And of course, he's been back so many times and he loves coming to England. And I'm the only one out of that regional lineup that's still playing with him.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, really? Yeah. I've seen you play a good
SPEAKER_02:few times with him, yeah, so it's always great. And again, being such a big fan of Woody Waters, to hear those songs, you know, kind of, you know, the versions of the songs that he does, I've heard some of the new ones that he does now as well. Yeah, he does his own stuff, you know, as well. But those classic, you know, numbers that are kind of played to death by everybody, but There is a reason they play to death by the way. They're great songs. Well, exactly. They're really great songs, but to do them with that voice, full-on powerful Chicago voice, which is so much like a dad. It's just wonderful, you know. You know, old songs that a lot of old harmonica players bring, you know, no old solos, note for note. Do you generally play the songs like the original? Well, they've always got the flavor there, you know. I've never really learned anything note for note, ever. Actually, I did a recording for someone who wanted a little Walter thing done. One thing you could guarantee for sure, the next night or the next session, if Walter did that song again, Walter would play something else. And for me, blues is a conversational thing. You're actually speaking through music, putting your point across. to pinch somebody else's conversation is kind of weird, you know. It's not an orchestral piece. It's not a concerto. It's not written down. It's an improvised piece of music. But as people say, the meat and potatoes of a song has to be there. You couldn't play Coochie Coochie Man and play stuff by a different riff. You know, you couldn't. It wouldn't be there. It needs that in it. but so again that 40 days and 40 now you've got to have that thrill in there yeah exactly you know it's got that there and it's got that there okay it's that kind of thing and then I just try and remember them when we play the song, that it goes a bit like this here. So it's never exactly the same, but it has the flavor of it. Yeah. So when you're playing with Mud, you do the UK gigs usually, don't you? Because he also goes to Europe. Does he use a different place? No, no, no. I usually do the Europe things. He used to pick up a lot of bands, but now he tends to like to take us. but if there was a show where they booked him I'm sure that's his business but if the band are going to book him he's not exclusive to us last year we went to India we played in Mumbai didn't we we went out there and played there for two nights he chose to take us with him who does he have playing with him in America obviously he did the album with Kim Wilson but he doesn't have Kim Wilson playing with him no it's Harmonica Hines I think the guy I only have different people in America playing along with him I think Yeah, great. It's great to see, you know, I mean, I'm sure Muddy would be delighted to see his son, you know, be able to carry it on and do some of his songs. And he's also, yes, he's doing that and still going strong. Yeah, but getting back to, I mean, once I got started getting into the feel goods and listening to more of the high energy stuff, I thought, discovered um jay giles band i had friends that you know always helped we always helped you spend a lot of time listening to records in people's houses back then you know yeah you went to your mate's house and you sat indoors and he said look what i've found i've listened to this and and i've got friends i'm still friends with now in south then that that had all all the stuff You know, they put me as Paul Batterfield. I mean, I loved Paul Batterfield. I can believe how he plays. Yeah. I loved his style. Yeah. all the early piazza stuff, you know, when they had the Dirty Blues Band. The Dirty Blues Band, yeah, that's right. Yeah, it's called that, wasn't it? Yeah. They put me into all those guys, you know, these friends. And I met Mike Vernon, didn't I, in the early days? I think I was about 23 when I did a session for him. That was my first harmonica session ever, was for him. Right, so yeah, just going back to your development and history. So you sort of started playing piano first, then you did pick up harmonica 13, 14. So were you then more... Were you playing both as you sort of got to your 20s? Well, when I'm starting to play, these are playing at home, you know, for my own pleasure. My first gigs would have been, I played in a Canvey band that was doing, what do you call it, psychedelic stuff, all the Pink Floyd stuff, and I played a Vox Continental organ single manual with them, and then a little bit of harmonica towards the end with a band called the Rubies on Canvey. That was my first gigs. And so you were gigging first on piano and then harmonica came along. So what age were you when you started gigging harmonica a little bit more seriously? Well, I wasn't serious. Again, this wasn't actually serious. I wouldn't say I was particularly any good at it. I've got to think, probably about 1920. And then when I was 21 or 22, I got the offer to play ready in a Hot Wheels, another band from Canvey and Southend they made an album with Al Cooper their last album was made with Al Cooper he put a lot of keyboards on it so they wanted keyboards on it when they went and did the live shows and I lived on Canvey. They lived on Canvey, most of them. And so I got picked. To be honest, I wasn't really qualified for the job, but they were good guys. And they said, oh, yeah. Steve, Dave Higgs, he sadly passed. He said, yeah, you come and do it. You'll be great, you know. You're learning on the job. That's the best thing, eh? Well, yeah. And we did American tours and European tours. Played a good few years with those guys. This was all mainly on keyboard, was it? Oh, all keyboard. So was there a point then where you did switch off to harmonica and then... Well, yeah. So it was that. Then the next band I played with, I got to join a band. I never really had my own band until much later. I was always just part of somebody else's band. Even when I was singing at some point, I was just a singer and a harmonica player really in the band.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And I left it all completely and became a public and worked for East Anglia at my own pub.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, really?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, for a few years. And then I got an offer to play with this band called Rem Parsi, a local band. It was a jump-drive band, really. I played piano with them. So I quit the job and played with them. It was a professional band and we toured. Right, so that's when you became a professional musician. What sort of age were you then? Yeah, 25, I think. Probably 25. So have you been working as a professional musician since about then? Have you had other jobs? On and off. I did that for a while. I went back to engineering for a few years and then got another band together. And it wasn't really until I met a guy called Mike Halls in London. Actually, I was playing with Paul Smith in London on piano at the Station Tavern. And I met That was a regular spot up there. Oh, my band played up there, actually. Yeah, I had a band called Western and the Westones. I mean, just basically blue stuff, you know, playing harmonica and piano. I played both. Had that playing station. That band sort of drifted apart, I suppose, more than anything. And I met Mike Halls, and he was just another level of musician on guitar. I mean, he was really good, but we really hit it off. and we formed the Bluesonics. It was his name. He said, I think it should be called West Westerns Bluesonics. He kind of formed that name. I mean, the whole idea behind it, he said, who is it that had Bluesology? It was not Saul Davies, the other guy. Alexis Korner, wasn't it? Alexis Korner's Bluesology. So that was the idea. He thought Bluesonics was like the science of playing blues. Yeah. So, and he came up with the West Westerns Blues Sonics. He said it'd be a great name for a band. But was that the start of you being the sort of frontman singer-harmonica player in that band? Yeah, in that particular band. And then after a couple of years, he moved to the States and he's still out there. And so I got various other guitarists and rhythm sections along the way. So what year did that band form, the Blues Sonics? About 1994. 94 right yes we've been going for a good long time now yeah I think it's 94 and has that then been your more or less your single band apart from when you guested with other bands yeah yeah it's been my outfit you know it's been my thing isn't it to always have this four piece you know I did for a while have West Western's Big Rhythm which is another band which has had saxophones in it I don't know if you've heard any of those tracks we did a best part of the year, I guess. You know, we used to play the 100 Club regularly. Yeah. And that was more doing jump drive stuff. Yeah. You know, with baritone and tenor and a piano player. But not you. Had you given up playing the piano at this stage? I was never that good at it, to be honest. I never really rated, you know, it was always kind of uncomfortable playing it. But I've played it on and off. You know, a few years back we did a You know, Mike Vernon said he was getting something to back Lacey Lester up. And I said, well, what do you want me for then? He goes, no, you play the piano. And it was that Mike Vernon thing. Did we finish that? It was Rocky Sharp and the replays. I did a B-side for them with Mike Vernon producing. That's how I met him in a local studio. I just played the harmonica. That was my first harmonica recording session I did. Right. I was a B-side for him, and we've kind of remained friends ever since, really. I did a couple more for him. He's a close friend of mine now, Mike. We've done quite a few stuff. He's produced quite a lot of records that I've been on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Then you got to the Weston's Blue Sonics, and that became your main band. So you guested, obviously, with other bands in the meantime as well as a harp player, just as a side man harp player most of the time, then, is it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't really do much on the piano anymore, you know. So you... Songwriting. Obviously, I've got a piano in the background and I use it. If I get an inspiration to a song idea, I sit at the piano and go through it, you know. So it obviously talks about you playing with Morganfield. Another thing you've done recently with another band is trick bagging over in Sweden.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:and how did that come about? That seems quite... I see your Facebook posts and you're saying you're off to Sweden at five o'clock in the morning, ridiculously early, and that's quite a commute. So how did that come about? Well, I was invited... I mean, it's 10 years ago now. Maybe 11 years ago, though. It's not recently. I've been with them a long time,
SPEAKER_00:you
SPEAKER_02:know. Yeah. It was back in the MySpace days when everyone had MySpace, and the first person to... right to me was Tommy Laino from Finland. And he said, do you fancy coming over and doing some shows? I thought, wow. You know, he'd seen some people have put some clips of me playing on YouTube and it had sort of gone around. And he just said, lovely to come over and do some shows. So I did some stuff with him. And within a few months more, Sweden, that was Finland, Sweden wrote to me, Lars, and Tommy Moberg, Lars Nijlman, Lars Nijlman from Trickbag said, would you want to come and play with us as a guest? Yeah. And so it seems like yesterday, but, you know, it's 11 years ago, and I went over and did the guest spot with them, you know, they did a bit, and I sung a few songs in the middle together. They were doing regular guests, mostly from the States, but They chose me from the UK. But we got on really well. I mean, we really hit it off. And their harmonica player, great harmonica player, he stopped. And they said, we need a harmonica player. And they just said, let's get Steve over. And that's how it's gone ever since. Yeah, so when you go over there, how many shows do you do? It varies. I mean, it varies. It can be one, it can be two. In the early days, we used to be two as a nine or ten. But it's usually a couple to make it worthwhile. It's usually at least two. Sometimes it's been only one. But yeah, it's always an early start going over there because it's a fair old way, really. Yeah, well, you've got to enjoy it in the opportunity. You've got to go that evening, you know. You're pretty tired by the end of the night. Yeah, I mean, but it's... but it's not hard work, is it? You know? But you enjoy it. You obviously don't lug an amp or anything over there, you just use... No, no, no, no. Just bag harmonicas and off I go. Yeah, brilliant, yeah. So yeah, great to be able to do that and go across. And then, I think it is quite recent, you did release the West Street album. It's with all the Scandinavian guys. So it's Tommy Lanius from Finland, it's Lars Narsen from Sweden... Mikko on drums from Sweden and Jesko on bass. Well now I'm
SPEAKER_01:working three jobs
SPEAKER_02:but I still cannot So did you record that in Sweden? I recorded it in Finland in Tommy Leno's studio. So you haven't done an album with Blue Sonics? No, no, no, I haven't done that. No, you're not planning to do that? Nothing in the near future is planned for that, no. I enjoy playing live and there's plenty of stuff live. I can't be terrified of playing in the studio doing something. I'm a bit of a fuss bot. I get away with things live, but doing it in the studio, I get... get a bit obsessed with making it I know I like and I know it's good and I've seen you play with the Blues Tonics many times that they ain't nothing but in London I've got a regular gig there and I think you know it just works so well live doesn't it in a way that you always get that more kind of you know you lose that spontaneity in a studio
SPEAKER_00:so yeah
SPEAKER_02:you know maybe it suits being live that sort of music and just thinking about people maybe starting out bands or just in an early stage of bands now, any particular advice to how they might have as long a career as you have or maybe it's different these days and to get going. Any views on that? Well, I've been really lucky so I never had a plan to play with all these people. When I look back, I've never been a pusher. I've never pushed myself in anything, ever. And it's kind of probably... It's gone against me probably, but I've always been invited. Always. Never, ever. I've never picked up the phone and said, can you give us a gig? Ever. Ever done that. It's not in me to do it. They knew who you were, so I guess you were out in the crowd. I might ask a local to play a gig and they say, that's great, do you want to come and play here? And people phone up and say, do you want to write to me and say, do you want to come and play here? All that stuff. I've just been really, really lucky. All the TripBag stuff, the Tom Milano stuff, Matt Morganfield's staff, obviously the Roger Daltrey and Wilco staff I did, I was always invited. I was asked to do it. I never pushed myself on anything. So I can't give any advice because I never had a plan myself. I never aimed for this. I never went to jam sessions and got myself known at jams or anything like that, which I guess that might be a way to go that I've never been. Yeah, but you've done it from, people know you from playing in other bands, I guess. Yeah, that kind of thing. I guess, you know, word of mouth. But, yeah, For the Blue Sonics, the question, I mean, you're the band leader for that, yeah? Are you the one who gets the gigs and makes sure you get the musicians and all that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What about that side, the business side of it? Any thoughts on that? Once again, I mean, it's a real hard one because I'm a terrible businessman. I don't push anything. The phone rings and I say, yes, I can do it. So I've never been a promoter as such or a pusher in anything. It's not in me. I'm not a managerial kind of person. Well, again, it's your talent that's got you the corn cold suit to call you up. So, yeah, I'm sure it's well deserved. You mentioned the Wilco Johnson thing. We should definitely touch on that. I remember, what year was that now when that album came out? 2014. Was it that long ago already? I just remember, you know, the album was number one, wasn't it? And I remember thinking, oh, it's great that there's a harmonica featuring strongly on an album which is at number one in the charts. that must have been a fantastic feeling as well to be there it was a great feeling I've never really looked into it but I can't think there would be that many English bands number one with a harmonica on no you know I just cannot I can't think particularly as a sort of blues album you know which obviously you've probably got some kind of more novelty poppy sort of harmonica on a few albums but in that sort of album yeah you know I think well the Silk was obviously at number one being able to leave playing harmonica yes that's one that comes to mind um So you just got a call to join Wilco Johnson? Well, yeah, I just got a call, you know, saying Wilco wants to do some harmonica on the album. He's been with Tultry in the studios there. And I drove down and did the album, did the tracks. So did they know who you were? Did you know them at all? Yeah, I know Wilco. Well, Wilco knows me, yes. Yeah, Wilco knows me. Yeah, from, again, the Essex connection. Yes, the connection, yeah. And he's seen me play many times in Southend. He's regularly at my shows. I do that on the railway. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. If he's not playing himself, he's usually there. Was that recorded in, you know, a few days, I understand? No, no, a few hours. A few hours. My bit was. They were doing all their bits. They'd been there for, I think, a week or so. Yeah. At the moment, my bit was just one evening. Brilliant. Did you take your own amp down to that? I took a little amp, yeah. I've got a Quilter amp that was actually belonged to Ronnie Boyce and he plays my album, Phil from Copenhagen. It was his amp and I still have that amp. It's mine
SPEAKER_00:now.
SPEAKER_02:But it's a very small amp. So I used to amp down there. you went to Australia. Was it last year you went to Australia? Yeah, yeah. I went in this October. I went through the first two weeks in November. Dan Sullivan, a friend from Facebook, he just wrote me and said, I'd love to get you out as a play. I said, that's a long... way to go. You know, I don't know how you can make that pay. And he just said, well, don't you worry, I'd love you to come over. Yeah, great. So you had a band, you played with a band over there? I played with his band, Tomcat Playgrounds, most of them on one show when we travelled to Adelaide. I think I have another band up there, but mainly his band. And they're great, they're great musicians and great guys. And it was just great. I mean, it was just so lovely to play out there. And yeah, How many shows did you do out there? I think it was 10. Yeah, 10. Yeah, about 10. Excellent, yeah. And how's the blues scene in Australia then? It's okay. It's pretty much like us. One was a festival that was busy and a few shows really busy. You know, midweek shows, a bit like midweek shows here. But yeah, it's a very simple thing to us. Do what we have in England, I would say. Yeah, they're all superb. And they're passionate about it. I love it, you know. Yeah. They're really nice people. They're really, really, I was, they're so friendly out there. I was, to a breath away, how great they were, you know. They were just wonderful. We're going to move on now to see some of your interest in other harmonica music and some of your, maybe your favourite plays, some of your favourite albums. And when I do plays, they're still my absolute favourites. It's just, it's Little Walter or Sunny Boy. I've got one most of the time.
SPEAKER_01:My record collection was a lot of Hammond groove stuff, a lot of Hammond
SPEAKER_02:organ groove. I love it. You know, I love that as much as anything. Talking about your sort of playing style and things, I mean, you're foremost, the blues player. On harmonica, obviously, like you say, you've had quite a lot of over-influences and more of a sort of jive swing, jumping sort of style. But on harmonica, would you, you know, is it the mixture between the blues and the sort of jump jive sort of style that you play? Well, any sort of route is that thing. I mean, yeah, it's sort of electric harmonica, acoustic harmonica. You know, it's all the same meet with different gravy, isn't it? I mean, it's all in the same bag. I can play traditional. I tend to go traditional. I mean, some people I play with are more traditional, and I play more traditional that way, and I love all that stuff. My own band is quite a bit more contentful, I guess. Yeah. You know, we don't want too far away. When I play the chromatic, my influence is without a doubt, it's all the Hammond stuff I listen to, no question of it. Right, so your chromatic playing is quite based around the Hammond, is it? Yeah, well, just the riffs and stuff in my head are usually Hammond riffs. Right, that's interesting, yeah. And of course you get that big sound on the chromatic, which is kind of like those big long chords on the Hammond as well, isn't it? Yeah, it's just a certain scale, isn't it, a pentatonic scale, but it's You can play nice simple riffs on a chromatic and it's a really groovy thing. Once you can make it swing, you've got to swing to sound really cool and deliver it. But I've written quite a lot of chromatic instrumentals and they're always based around what I've influenced by my Hammond collection. They're not copied. They're not copied from anything but they're all inspired by it. Yeah, it's always great to see I think every... diasonic players should definitely pick up the chromatic and at least learn the third position blues stuff because, you know, it's not difficult once you know the third position stuff on the diasonic. That's all I do is third position. I don't do anything else on the chromatic.
UNKNOWN:.
SPEAKER_02:So when you were learning the harmonica, any particular way you approached it, was it the usual, you know, listen to your records and playing along and sort of picking it up that way? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I started, there was no internet and very little instructions. I mean, there were people talking about instructional books, but And if someone gave you one, you wouldn't, I wasn't the kind of guy going out and looking for one. Yeah, it's incredible now, isn't the difference, you know, the resources that people have now with the internet and just endless amounts of resources compared to, because when I was young and I started playing, I was the same. There's probably like two not very good books you could play on the harmonica. I would have never, yeah, I've never had the patience for anything written down. I can't read music and I just don't have the patience with it. Obviously, you're a singer as well now, certainly, and playing the harp. Any particular views on that? Obviously, you play as a sideman quite as well. Is there any particular difference between just being the sideman or when you're a singer? Again, by default, I just wanted to do some songs, so I decided to have a go at the singing. I didn't see myself as a singer, but I thought I'd have a go at it. I saw many who do as well. So did you pick up singing later on then? Yeah, I'm trying to think when I first started singing. I was singing and playing the harmonica, I would have been 23, I guess, 24. I do like fun to my own band. I do prefer being a sideman, if I'm honest with you. Yeah, so take the pressure off a little bit. Take the pressure off, and I just like playing the harmonica more than I like singing. Yeah, but it's interesting because I think there's a lot of guys who play harmonica and girls who play harmonica, you know, they're maybe a bit reluctant to sing because they feel that they can't. So it's interesting hearing you say that, you know, you kind of want to push yourself to do it, and obviously it's done great for you, and I think you are a good singer, and it's a really big part of your show, your singing. you know, maybe encourage other people to say, yeah, that, you know, they should try the singing as well. Yeah, I mean, there are great singers, but there's great singers that aren't great singers for want of a better way. I mean, you know, I mean, you can get people even like, you know, one of the greatest songwriters in their time, Bob Dylan, he's not a great singer. No. You know, but... When he sings his songs, it's the best version of his songs you're going to hear, you know. Yeah, absolutely. You know, he's honest about it, you know. And I do quite a lot of songwriting. I did, I've kind of slowed down in the last years, but I like to do my own songs, you know. Yeah. And I think that carries a lot, you know, when you're the singer and you're singing your own songs, that's your voice, that's everything about you. Yeah. Yeah. The meaning's there, isn't it? Yeah, it kind of is. It always sounds great, you know. What are a couple of the songs you've written that I've probably heard you performing then? Well, I mean, all of West Street is all original, every single track on there is.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, baby, oh, baby Your dog keeps looking at me Each time I move to get next to you It just won't let
SPEAKER_00:me
SPEAKER_01:be
SPEAKER_02:But yeah, you know, I mean, since the internet, the songs I've written have been covered all over the globe. I think Australia has recorded them. Do you get royalties for that? I wouldn't know. I'm not very good at that kind of thing. If they had a hit with it, I would think yes. But you know what? I mean, the level we're playing on, there's much money coming my way. If anybody copied one of my songs and had a number one hit with it, I'm sure... Yeah, if they made 10 million pounds, you deserve a size of that for sure. One question I'm going to ask each time on the podcast is if you had 10 minutes just to pick up the harmonica to play, what would you work on in that 10 minutes? This is the view of you might play longer than 10 minutes if you start, but just to help people maybe starting out, if you're going to play for 10 minutes, what would you work on? For me, just as a warm-up exercise. Yeah, yeah, whatever. If I play for just 10 minutes, it would be probably just before I play, I would just try and get... I would work on Sonny Terry's stuff. I'd just do Sonny Terry's style of thing. It's a lot of really controlled breathing, getting those going, and it's just like an exercise I use. Oh, really? Okay. I don't really associate you too much with doing Sonny Terry's style stuff. when I've seen you play. I guess you do an acoustic one like that, do you, Marshall? Yeah, yeah, I can, when we finish, recently I did some acoustic stuff, the harmonica, what was it, Hopping by the Sea? Oh, yeah, the one in February this year. I was going to come this year. It was a fantastic event last year. They had this guy from Uruguay who was just amazing. But I was going to go this year, but they did all sold out by the time I got round. Well, I didn't leave it that late. You know, those guys have done great. Yeah. But me and Will Wilder and Joe Fisco did a thing at the end, you know, and it was just improvised. And we did a couple of, you know, it was like a funny boy Williamson thing. And then... and then a Sonny Terry type of thing, you know.
SPEAKER_00:They're quite
SPEAKER_02:a exercise. They come out great. In fact, they come out fine. But yeah, they're good exercises. That Sonny Terry rhythm stuff is... really good exercise to get you, you know, doing your stretching before you do a run. Yeah, it's a full lung workout, isn't it? Yeah, you know, stretching all your legs and then before you start doing the bits. I guess I do that. I mean, So teaching, you don't do any teaching, do you? I remember mentioning this to you a while ago. I'm not very good at it. That's the long and the short of it. I'm really not very good at it. I can show people what I play in 10, 15 minutes. I'm done, you know. I do this and I do that. And you can do this. And again, it's how I do it, not how other people do it. It might be right, it might be wrong. But I can only show how I do it because nobody taught me. That's how I taught myself. I could say that in 10 minutes, but, you know. I think you're right in many ways. I mean, I think having lessons obviously can be useful, but at the end of the day, you've kind of got to go and spend the time doing it yourself, haven't you, ultimately, to be able to get there. Techniques, I mean, everything was secret when I started. You know, you didn't know anything about tongue blocking, but all those techniques are available for everybody to know now. Yeah, absolutely. And I can show, explain how I do it and how I sort of tongue block and bend notes, tongue block and how I do octaves and how I do these warbly things and that's it. I've told you everything already. That's it, really. That's the technique, you know. Yeah, absolutely. And playing it, putting it to music, that's down to you. You know, I can show you a riff, you can keep playing that riff for an hour. So how do you do that riff? I could... give you an hour and you might not get it. One thing which is really cool, obviously, playing blues, I'm wondering, is tone. You know, when you get a great big tone yourself, any particular, you know, thoughts on that or tips on that? Well, tongue block, obviously, makes the tone bigger. For me, it does. You know, I'm not, I do play different from everybody else. See, there's this whole tight cup thing and everything and airtight I don't do any of that. So I play with a really loose cup. I don't screw the microphone tight. Never. It's really loose. Loads of air around it. It's interesting you get such a big sound. It's a completely different thing. I can show you how I do it, but it doesn't mean it's right because a lot of people do it a different way. Yeah, I think that's interesting that you know, there isn't necessarily one way to do it, is there? Lots of ways to skin a cat and all that, and it shows that you get great sounds by doing things in different ways, yeah? Yeah, I mean, it's a big thing on the deep tone, you know, resonating in your diaphragm, all these big, deep tones, but if you listen to a lot of Sonny Boy Williamson, a lot of that's a really nasty nasal tone.
SPEAKER_00:You
SPEAKER_02:can hear it, it has a really bright, front of mouth tone you get so it's really nasty that's not a deep tone no absolutely and that's almost the beauty it's the kind of beauty isn't it kind of screeching kind of quite yeah it's really a nasty sort of buzz sort of sound you know so it's a tone it's the sound of it so they say that was it big and fat and all these words that come out but tone is something that's really pleasant to the ear to me if it sounds nice to the ear it doesn't necessarily have to be big Just a nice sound, you know, it sounds nice. So let's move on to talking gear now. We can't talk about harmonicas without talking gear. So I remember a good few years ago, you were making your own custom marine bands. Are you still doing those? No, I don't do them now. I still play them. And I service people that bought them off me in that day. I just can't get the bits anymore at a reasonable price to be able to sell them on. So there's no money in it, you know. Unless I charged a fortune for them and I didn't want to charge that. Yeah, and I think our monikers in the last, I don't know, 10 years or so, they've really come on a lot. Oh, yeah. Which is, you know, the ones you buy in stock now are a lot better. Yeah, well, they're more or less what the customizers were doing. A custom heart is still going to be better than an off-the-shelf. There's no question of that. Yeah. But the off-the-shelves are so much better than they were. But you still do your own, you'll buy one and then you'll emboss it and get it how you like it. So are you playing marine bands? Always, yeah. Any flavour as in the newer ones or are you still playing the old ones? Oh yeah, the old riveted ones but I do some down and then put the screws back in but the crossovers are great. I've got a couple of crossovers that were given to me so they're still a marine band. So you'll play the old-style marine bands where the combs will swell then? Well, not if you customise them. Or you coat them in beeswax? Yeah, the original ones, I used to beeswax, but now they're semi-coated anyway, aren't they? They're not a raw wood like they used to be. Yeah. They're a different wood now. Yeah, sure, yeah. I don't think they use pear wood anymore. I think the crossweathers are bamboo, aren't they? Yeah, they're bamboo on a pear wood. Yeah, I like the crossovers myself. It's got a slightly brighter sound and I also like the combs being treated. Do you have a favourite key of diatonic that you like? B-flats and A's. B-flats and A's, yeah. Yeah, that gives you that range, doesn't it? That lower sound. It's a tenor sound, isn't it? More like a tenor saxophone. range, you know, not an alto and they're not a baritone. Oh yeah, interesting. Right, and that tenor sort of range where it sounds nice, you know, especially B flat. Yeah, interesting. I've done, the other one, the other podcast I've done so far has been with Paul Lamb and his favourite key was also B flat, so B flat is winning in the votes for favourite keys so far on the... Do you play any different tunings at all? No. You don't do overblows or anything like that? Oh, no. Well, no, I can't do them, no. Okay, and talking amps, so last time I saw you play, it was a few years ago when I did a support slot with you in Reading, if you remember that, that you were playing a Fender DeVille amp. Yeah. Is that what you're still using? No, I've still got it. No, a couple of years ago now, that's the... best part of. I've got a marble lamp from Holland. Oh yeah, those are custom-built ones, aren't they? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I play with mud in Amsterdam and the back line was supplied and it was a marble lamp for two shows I did. And I was just really impressed with it. This is a much better sound. I like this a lot. So I got one made. I sold my basement. I had a basement that I hadn't used for years. So I sold that and bought a marble. And that's been my go-to amp. It's an incredibly well-made amp. Yeah, I've never tried one of those. It would be interesting to try one one day. And you said earlier on you've got a small quilter amp. Do you have a small amp that you'll use when the occasion calls for a smaller amp? Is that your choice of a small amp? I've used a quilt a few times in a live thing in a duo. But usually duos, I play acoustic. But the quilter is more just for recording sometimes. Sometimes, I mean, there's a little, it's 100 watts, that little amp. Sometimes if I do the railway or a show where you need a lot of power, I play two amps, I play a 410 and the Quilter together. Okay, you chain them together, yeah? Yeah. Because it's a major difference in power. I mean, it is much, much more. I mean, so much more than you think. How do you actually do that? I do, I do. No, no, I don't. It's so much more than, I mean, it's only a little 8-inch speaker in the marble, but when you put it together with a 410, you wouldn't see it. It's 160 watts, you know, chucking out. But it's so much more than you think. Do you not get feedback problems? No, no, certainly not. You get much less because you don't have to run them so loud. So talking mics, is there any particular mics you like? Over the years I was a crystal player, I love the sound of crystals but when they started letting me down I couldn't trust them anymore so I went over to the CMs and the CRs from shore and that's what I've been using ever since. Right, yeah. I do have a crystal I bought recently from Dennis Grunling in America, which cost me a lot of money. They're not cheap, but it is a good crystal, and hopefully the last. But, yeah, like you said, the crystals are maybe a little less reliable. I spent thousands on them back in the day. I mean, if you're getting the old ones, I knew exactly what you needed. If you're getting ones in the 40s, you'd use them, and you'd think, well, this is so crazy, Mike. And I'd treat them like babies, and then you pick it up the next day, and it's dead.
SPEAKER_00:What
SPEAKER_02:the hell happened here? Yeah, and what about effects pedals? What do you have in your set? I've always used a delay or a reverb. And in the last 10 years, I would say, I've pretty much exclusively used a Kindle 8 and your feedback pedal as well. You got the kinder, yeah. A lot of people seem to really like the kinders, don't they? But they seem quite hard to get hold of now. Oh, yeah, yeah. It's impossible, yeah. I tried to get a kinder, and the guy didn't respond, so I ended up buying the squeal killer, which is good. It's hard to compare anti-feedback pedals, I guess. If they work, they work, don't they? So, yeah, so generally you've got a delay reverb and just an anti-feedback pedal. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:getting to the end now obviously we're in this strange COVID-19 pandemic at the moment and gigs are obviously all put on hold so have you got anything particularly lined up later in the year which you're hoping or you know you're looking forward to getting back to? No there is I can't remember there are things in the book but whether they happen or not I mean they're all I'm pretty much assuming most things are off you know Yeah, I'm excited to see when it'll come. I mean, maybe by September we'll maybe be able to get back out there. Yeah. I've picked up a harmonica for a month now, so not even picked one up. So I've got to sort of think about going in that middle room and doing it. I've just been doing stuff around the house, in the garden. Yeah. I've had just here and... She's got a fashion business course now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's on hold as well. Just today she started doing scrubs for the NHS. They need volunteers to help make these things. Is she doing that, is she? Yeah. Not one up yet. So she's doing some help out there. Doing a bit. Well, hopefully you look forward to when you do get back up. Yeah, yeah. I hope so. the gigs to the gig list that I run on the, uh, Monica UK website. So, um, that'd be good. So yeah, thanks a lot for spending the time and talking to a pleasure. I'll, uh, I'll put up a few, well, a few links, a link to your Facebook page. Don't you have your own website? Do you? No, no, no. So you've got your Facebook page. You do it that way. Yeah. So, uh, that's all good. Yeah. So yeah. Brilliant. Thanks a lot. Great to talk to you. Thank you. That's it for today folks. Final word from my sponsor, the Longwolf Blues Company, providing some great effects pedals and microphones, all purpose built for the harmonica. Be sure to check out their website.