Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Lee Oskar interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 13

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Lee Oskar left his native Denmark to move to the US at age 18, and was soon enjoying phenomenal success with the rock funk band War, interweaving soulful harmonica lines into the horn section.

Lee also has numerous solo albums, releasing some of the most downright catchy harmonica melodies ever recorded.

On top of all this, he set-up his own harmonica company, leading the way with innovations such as replacement reed plates and different tunings

Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

Lee Oskar website:
https://leeoskar.com

Lee Oskar harmonicas:
https://leeoskar.com/harmonicas/

Dreams We Share record label:
https://dreamsweshare.com

Teaching:

With Steve Lockwood:
https://www.leeoskarharmonicalessons.com

YouTube:

Lee Oskar Harmonicas 25th Year Anniversary Tour:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOXiJXHkiVA&list=PLJcbSv_zlUdyNXrAwkDwJi4XVhYCvqRrB

Lee Oskar Harmonicas YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/user/leeoskarharmonicas


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

Support the show

SPEAKER_00:

Hi everybody, this is Neil Warren with episode 13 of the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast. Thanks to my sponsor, the Lone Wolf Blues Company, makers of effects pedals, microphones and more, designed for harmonica. Remember, when you want control over your tone, you want Lone Wolf. If you like the podcast, please remember to subscribe, and you can hear most of the songs discussed on the Spotify playlist. So Lee Oscar joins me today. Lee left his native Denmark to move to the US at the age of 18 and was soon enjoying phenomenal success with the rock funk band War, interweaving his soulful harmonica lines into the horn section. Lee has also had numerous solo albums, releasing some of the most downright catchy harmonica melodies ever recorded. On top of all this, he set up his own harmonica company, leading the way with innovations such as replacement replays and different tunings. Hello, Lee Oscar, and welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Neil. Thanks for having me on board. Starting out with your name, Lee Oscar. I understand Oscar isn't your original name. It's Levitin.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, my full name is Lee Oscar Levitin. In business, I go just by Lee Oscar.

SPEAKER_00:

So you're originally from Copenhagen in Denmark. What was it like, or was the harmonica scene like in Copenhagen, your early influences that got you interested? My neighborhood?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, harmonica was more

SPEAKER_02:

of a novelty thing. 1954, I believe, I was six years old. That's when an American came to visit my family and I. He knew harmonica was the end thing. And so I got my harmonica and I was in love with it from the moment I breathed on it.

SPEAKER_00:

Great. So six years old, that is an early beginning then. So had you heard any harmonica music at that point?

SPEAKER_02:

Not really. You know, it's interesting how markets have changed. Like back then, the only thing I had to listen to musically was really just the radio. And radio didn't have different genres of music. It was music. And I don't recall anybody really harmonica. That was much later on. I learned about Larry Adler in that.

SPEAKER_00:

As you grew up then and became a teenager, did you have any more influences then around harmonica music that you were listening to?

SPEAKER_02:

No. I didn't have a record player or anything until I got in the United States and I got with Eric Burton. Up until then, I didn't even own a record player.

SPEAKER_00:

So do you recall what were you playing in these early years of playing the harmonica then? Just make up whatever I was composing

SPEAKER_02:

from the get-go. The only difference is back when I first started, I knew that I couldn't repeat the same thing. So I would just make stuff up and pretend I knew what I was doing.

SPEAKER_00:

I read a quote that you were believed to be musically hopeless as a child and the harmonica saved you from that.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, yeah. What I'm referring to is that I'm profoundly, I mean, I'm so into music, it livid. But I would have probably been considered musically hopeless. Putting myself down as being musically hopeless because the public in general refers somebody, if they can't play an instrument, they're musically hopeless. And that window that made me feel I could do music was the harmonica. There's no other window that was open. I mean, there's nothing else to this day I really play. I hear in my head cellos, violins. I hear arrangements. I hear so much. And finally able to apply it to this day, I would have been musically hopeless. So, yeah, harmonica was my window of opportunity to actually play rather than just feeling it and hearing it.

SPEAKER_00:

So you didn't play any other instruments? You didn't have any lessons, piano lessons, anything like that when you were young?

SPEAKER_02:

Not at all. Probably the worst thing that could have happened to me. Because if they thought I was musically inclined, they would have checked me off to harmonica. I always say that. And put me on what they thought would be a worthy instrument for someone potentially in music. And that would be a piano or a violin. And thank God that I was so far away from even being recognized in anything that was valuable in music that I was literally left alone.

SPEAKER_00:

A lot of people I speak to on here, they drew a lot of early inspiration from listening to a lot of the classic blues harmonica players. Did you have that at some point in your teenage years? Did you start to discover other harmonica players and listen to them at some point?

SPEAKER_02:

Not at all. My first introduction to, if it's harmonica playing specifically for blues, was in America, Little Walter. I just heard it and I thought it was amazing. But my first influence that I really... really really uh most inspiring in way i've always been playing like like making stuff up but they kind of like my it's my voice was when i heard ray charles

SPEAKER_00:

absolutely it was fantastic of course she did the song uh song for ray as a tribute to ray charles

SPEAKER_02:

so

SPEAKER_00:

You play a great eclectic mix of styles and genres from your albums. Maybe that showed that because you weren't pushed in blues direction, which a lot of harmonica players are in the early days, that you were very open to playing all these different styles and genres.

SPEAKER_02:

I think my influence basically in music is just like folks singing and playing. I mean, it's not a specific thing. I mean, you know, listen to radio. I mean, there was Bueling singing an opera. There was Perry Como, and that was one of my favorites. There was all kinds of things on the same radio, you know, and it was all just very, very inspiring, and I would always... I imagine myself as a conductor and playing. But the blues, the genre of blues that you're referring to, between the 1-4-5 changes, basically, and most of today's dominant chords, who doesn't like those? Those are amazing chord changes between the 1-4 and 1-4-5 or 1-5. I mean, you can't go wrong with that stuff. So it's been a canvas for a lot of music, different spins, that they have different genre names. But basically, those... particular motifs, I mean, you can't go wrong. You've got to love it. And I've always loved blues for that reason.

SPEAKER_00:

As you say, Ray Charles, he's played a lot of, obviously a lot of horn players with him. So did that push you in the direction of, you know, trying to learn horn lines on the harmonica, which is something you definitely went on to do, go on to in a second?

SPEAKER_02:

Not at all. I don't know where it came from, but it came from way when I was a kid. I would always visualize doing like what you might call horn lines, but it's basically, you know, I think of harmonica with the other brass. And I just was always wanting to play with somebody else, play a melody. I would come up with a melody and somebody played that with me, you know, that kind of thing. And so it was very exciting to think about saxophone and harmonica, flute and harmonica. You know, I didn't care who it was, you know, just somebody played his line with me. That was my way in the path of coaling and horn lines. So I was very fortunate when I finally got to exercise my dreams when I got with Eric Burton. He embraced my ideas, and me and Charles Miller, saxophone player from war, I mean, that was like a love affair, man, just to have harmonica and saxophone playing together. It was like, wow, it was just a dream come true.

SPEAKER_00:

So you then made the decision at the age of 18 to move from Denmark to New York in America.

SPEAKER_02:

Came to the United States in 1966, correct.

SPEAKER_00:

So what inspired that decision? Was that a musical decision?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. In the 60s, I wanted to come to the United States. I mean, there was only two places in the world that seemed like there was like the music industry was the UK or England, particularly, and the United States. I mean, all ambition, just really, really, really wanted to be part of that. And there was nowhere else in the world. I mean, Denmark, are you kidding me? You know, you would have to be a profound jazz guy for them to even accept you to do something other than classical music. My sandbox was wide open. It wasn't anybody else's sandbox. And I just want to come to the United States and make it.

SPEAKER_00:

So you moved to New York initially and you spent some time over there, but then you eventually ended up in Los Angeles. So what about that transition? Was there much happening in New York before you went west to Los Angeles? New

SPEAKER_02:

York was very scary. It was scary, I think, to a lot of people. And on top of that, it was like I wasn't familiar with the culture. There were some people there that took interest, but I didn't know enough to... I knew that I need to go to Los Angeles. I mean, that's where the record industry was. And so I made it to the United States. I mean, I made it to L.A.

SPEAKER_00:

So you went to Los Angeles and it's there that you met Eric Burden. And that was when things started taking off.

SPEAKER_02:

That was the first, actually, reality of, like, feeling just amazed. Because I was, I mean, first of all, jamming with Eric Burton, and the whole scene there that I was, the door was always open for me to come in without having to pay. And I met Eric Burton, and he was a superstar. I mean, he was the same level of the animals as the Rolling Stones and Mick Jagger. I mean, he was like... And we got to jam together with the Bank Hole Blues image, and... I was obviously looking, still trying to look for a deal or something to be part of. Here he comes along and embraced my playing, my energy and everything and was there with him and things involved. It was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_00:

And this then led on to the formation of the band WAR.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, basically when I met Eric, he had already shut down the new animals, as he called it. and then did jamming in the same place I was playing, and we sat in. But then he wanted to form another band, and he really wanted me to be part of it. And we went to a club to check out this band that already were together, and they were called The Night Shift. And that same band, minus a few people, the nucleus of that band, I should say, and Eric and myself sat around in a swimming pool. After Eric and I went down to check out the band, I sat in and jammed with them. Next day, we were on a swimming pool in Hollywood, and But it was amazing. That's when we came up with the name WAR, and that's when it's part of

SPEAKER_00:

something, my dream coming true. So war formed in the late 60s and went on some fantastic success through the 70s. So, you know, a real mixture of genres, you know, a kind of funk rock band playing R&B and jazz and rock and sort of Latin influences. So that suited your taste in harmonica.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's funny because when I first got with Eric, I wanted blues. I mean, I just loved, like I said, those chord changes. My My roots, you know, I wasn't conscious of it. I'm a melody, I write, I compose melodies. I mean, that's what I am. But then you got to have the dirt and the other stuff. I mean, and I love all that. Everything we did as war, I felt that I was totally, I mean, I was like my family. I was totally low. Anything I created musically or anybody did, I felt it belonged to us as war. And I didn't really think about it consciously that most of the things we created as war was even if somebody would bring a great idea in, like Howard Scott's Cisco Kid or Slipping the Darkness, we basically embraced the stuff and we developed it in natural ways of jamming it and recording it. And so half of the stuff that we do is an arrangement of That really is part of the composition. When I would come into the studio and say, hey, I got this melody in that, and they would try, and I realized it didn't fit. That's when I decided I want to do my solo albums, and I hoped everybody else would do things that didn't fit within what we do together naturally. So they would be like, everybody would have their own albums out, including what we do together as War. That was an amazing dream that I wanted to see happen. And I did my own solo album for that reason. That's why the first album cover even has, on the harmonica, it has the name War on it. And even get guys credit, even though they didn't write any of it, because I wanted everybody to feel part of it. Then I realized... because I love playing blues and that. Then I realized people are going to be surprised when they, because they're going to expect when they hear me that, oh, Lioska's doing a solo album. So they expect it because of Harmonica, they expect it to be a blues album. And I had all these other things in me that I wanted to do. And nobody would ever expect that. Or even, it was even strange to the ears to hear Harmonic Minor, that first solo album I did. So I assume once, once they found that interesting and I got people embracing that, then eventually I would come out with a blues album and they would be surprised again and would love it, you know, instead of just being a blues album is just another ordinary thing because it's harmonica. And what I didn't realize is that in the meantime, the industry is forming more and more of a homogenized things with becoming categories and so blues has its own click and because I wasn't looked at as being a A blues harmonica player, once they heard my solo albums, I was totally, I don't want to say outcast, but it was like there's a wall right there where this cliche thing of what is blues and people would say, oh, Lee Oscar don't play blues. Well, you know, Miles Davis don't play blues either. Coltrane, no, they all play blues. I mean, that's what I am. I'm a blues player. But blues can be implied with more than just the one, four, five changes. It's the way you express. It's the attitude. It's the feeling. It's not just a form of a

SPEAKER_00:

composition. So, yeah, War, again, they had great success through the 70s. You had the album The World is a Ghetto, which was on the best-selling album of 1973 in America on the Billboard chart there. And a lot of great harmonica on that album as well. You know, Where Was You At is one of the songs. And... your approach to playing harmonica in war just interested in that because As you say, you're interested in melodies, very much riff-based. There's a lot of instruments in war, isn't there? You've got various horns, a lot of different instruments. So how did you fit the harmonica in with all that, you know, the place of the harmonica in that band with so much going on?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, it's back to my vision is to be part of a band and be, if I'm not soloing, be really in the motif as doing counterlines melody lines that I called and always with a saxophone as much as it works or without the sax but it's counterlines it's what I would call horn lines I've learned to understand myself and to explain something is that music is not filling in space music is creating space and I find what I'm good at is composing melodies or counterlines And it's basically, it's not sitting methodically. It's like if someone goes, plays a riff, I can react to it with a riff. And that creates more space. So counter lines are going to be just as strong as the melody line that the lyrics or without lyrics, you know, the main melody. It's just really that. And phrasing. I mean, there are two things in the music in creating space. It's your phrasing and the pocket. That's basically it. And

SPEAKER_00:

So talking about your melodies, but we can't talk about you playing with War without talking about the song Low Rider, and you've created quite possibly the most memorable harmonica riff ever come up with on that song, Low Rider.

UNKNOWN:

Low Rider

SPEAKER_02:

Charles Mill and I was out of the studio. We were out on the pier. By the time we gave up, it was like maybe 6 in the morning. We knew the guys were in the studio, and we went in, and they had just laid a track down that was for Lowrider. And Charles went in there, and he immediately started singing, Lowrider. And then I went, da-da-da-da-da-da-da. You know, just where it comes from, just like anything else when we create or compose or whatever. That's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_00:

There's an amazing thing happened in 1970. Jimi Hendrix's last performance before he died the next day was with War at Ronnie Scott's in London. Were you at that gig?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, I was. Jimi was standing right next to me, and I used to look forward to playing Mother Earth. which is a great blues tune. And I always look forward to doing the solo in that. And when Jimmy was on stage with us, you know, of course, I stood back and let Jimmy have that space. And it was amazing.

SPEAKER_00:

Just to emphasize again, you know, that Jimi Hendrix played Saturn with you for the second part of your set that night and then sadly died the next morning. So you heard the news. I guess that was pretty shocking to the whole world when he died.

SPEAKER_02:

It was. We were on stage playing, and he was leaning against the wall. I mean, he wasn't doing great, but he sounded amazing. And the next day, he was supposed to come back, and that's when Nicole came from Monique, his German girlfriend. They lived in London. Called Ronnie Scott, and so she did. And when we got off stage, then Eric split, and... myself and a friend we were just walking around london just in total shock you know

SPEAKER_00:

so you you stayed you stayed with war well war the war the war was around until 1994 so as you say you were doing your own solo projects between that time so did you stay with war for all that time before you then formed the low rider band which is a some of the members from war you formed the low rider band

SPEAKER_02:

You know, Neil, it's not so cut and dry. It's crazy how things got totally unseveral as a band. But then things started happening with the business and the legal stuff. And I just finally had to not be in a conflict with my harmonica company. I had to drop out.

SPEAKER_00:

So you did a solo album in 1976, which was called The Oscar. The first three songs on the album are... or symphonies, you know, you've got the word symphony as part of the title song, so I remember home, symphony, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Those compositions, I remember home, The Journey, The Pest and Symphony, The Journey, The Immigrant, and Promised Land. Those are like three movements I composed, and I was going to do it with war. That's why I went in the studio and the ideas. And that's when I realized that some things creatively that is in within each of us may not be part of what marinates as war. You

SPEAKER_00:

had Before the Rain in 1978, which if I've got this right, it was probably your biggest hit. as an album. And again, almost a kind of concept album in a way, because the song Before the Rain, you've got this section at the end where you've got like the rain sound for like getting on for a minute. Yeah. So it's great. I love that song. It's again, it's a long song. You've got this kind of long section at the end where Rain is playing. So what about that song and that album?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'm always into sound. I love ambience and all that. And what inspired me to even get more into it was when I was hanging out with Mickey Hart from The Grateful Dead. And he was so into ambience and sounds. And I love that stuff myself. And so I got the right gear. to record. And matter of fact, that was in Mickey Hart's ranch when I recorded The Rain because there was like a metal roof so you could hear The Rain. I just loved that. It was just all to me. To me, everything I did musically, even with war, I always wanted it to be a journey. The fact that something's got to be only three minutes and 58 seconds back then to play on radio, that usually was a lot of edits. Just so you know, Neil, the fact that when we were one of the first bands as War Ambit to play live on television because they wanted to keep rock and roll, remember all that stuff out, we just jammed. And so when they were doing the test run before the actual video, just to get position with the cameras, we were into the tune, whatever tune it was, maybe Cisco Kid or something. And then 10 minutes later, you open your eyes and you can feel they've been trying to stop us. And they would say, no, your record is three minutes and 58 seconds. We never had the mentality after the fact, okay, we've got to edit this now and do this to make it a single. So everything is, in my philosophy, is about the music.

SPEAKER_00:

And so that Before the Rain song, is that right? You're playing that on a D-flat harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I played first position, D-flat, and then when I solo, I just used second position, F-sharp.

SPEAKER_00:

So then another successful album for you, the My Road, Our Road. Is that a movie soundtrack album?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, My Road. After I created it, My Road, I composed My Road and then produced that Our Road. There was a Japanese film director who loved My Road and he created a movie around that composition, My Recording. And that about a Japanese guy who comes to the United States and hitchhiking and the scenarios he goes to and all the cliches, you know, but for whatever it's worth, I mean, you know, it's made to seem like I composed that for the film. But the honest truth is I composed it and recorded and then they used it for a movie theme.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, yeah, so it sort of came after, because it suits that sort of sound, doesn't it? It's got that kind of movie soundtrack sound about it, that album. Well, then getting into, so 1980s, that album, then getting into the 80s, you did a few albums with bands in Japan. Was this the start of your journey to finding Tombow, to setting up your harmonica company? Is that the Japanese connection?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, I was doing a lot of stuff in Japan, including composing and... for commercials, for TV commercials in Japan. I would come over there quite a bit to compose music for their commercials, you know, Budweiser, Mitsubishi, you name it. And I was also very tight with a Fusawa, the drummer. Whenever I would go out there on some tours, I mean, with all the locals, local musicians and all local places, from Hokkaido all the way down to Kyushu, Japan, Every little town, I would be playing with Japanese, so we called Lee Oscar and Japanese friends. And so all my activities there, I heard a harmonica playing down the hallway and knocked on the door and it was Kan Minaka playing a tremolo. invited myself in and looked at the harmonica and I saw the name Tombo. And I've been in a quest to collaborate with a factory that makes harmonicas for a long time. And so here was an opportunity that fortunately came true. I mean, they were fans. Now they're like 103 years old, Tombo Factory. So they're going on five generations. They were fans of my first solo album because it was big with Shiseido... women cosmetic commercial. So I was very fortunate that they already were aware of me. And then I told them I want to have my designs and ideas and with their expertise, uh, Dream come

SPEAKER_00:

true again. So getting on to your harmonicas now. So first of all, I have a harmonica which is signed by you on the cover plate. So I won this harmonica in a competition at some point many years ago now. And I also received your album, So Much In Love. So I got sent this harmonica. And I've still got this engraved signature by you. And I changed the cover plate onto another one, which is in better condition because it was quite an old one at this point. So I do have a signed harmonica from you, Lee, which I've had for many years now. But just briefly before we get on to your thing, the album So Much In Love, that song, again, is another great example of such catchy melodies. I've been listening to your music over the last few days, and that song particularly, So Much In Love, what a catchy melody. I couldn't get it out of my head.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you, man. I appreciate it. Just on a side note on that, I'm just finishing producing other artists. I formed my record label. And then the album that is already released by Miyazaki, he's a Japanese saxophone player. He's amazing. He's doing all the other compositions that I produced, and he's doing a version of So Much in Love. That's even, to me, much better than the one that came from the album you talk about.

SPEAKER_00:

Coming then to your, you know, you're very well known, obviously, for the range of Lee Oscar harmonicas. This came about from your own, you know, you were retuning harmonicas at this point yourself, yeah, so they could meet what you needed in the music that you were playing. Is that what started you off on the idea about creating your own harmonica company?

SPEAKER_02:

It wasn't about the tunings. That would be part of it. I mean, with or without the tunings, it was literally, I was very frustrated with the quality of, Just basically what was available on the market. I would never, ever even think of wanting to be involved in manufacturing if I wasn't so frustrated with what existed. I mean, maybe one out of every ten harmonicas that was available in the market was only good. The other nine, I would have to tinker with and whatever to make it right. And I would never even have known how bad the quality of harmonicas were out there until after I got with Eric Burden. And every penny I got, I would spend on harmonicas. That's when I literally found out how bad the image of harmonica and the quality. The Rodis bring this huge case, the size of a big refrigerator with 12 drawers, bring it on stage even. I mean, it was heavy. And bring it on stage, it was just full of 12 different keys. And I would just go through it even while I'm on stage playing. So that's what led me to it. And then the tunings was always part of the thing that I always wanted to have available. Burt Bacharach hired me for a session, Burt Bacharach and Roberta Flagg. And I was so embarrassed. I even think if somebody's really good with overblows, they would not have made it with this session. Because, you know, passing notes with overblows is one thing, but to play pristine the note and lean on it as part of the melody, that's very, very difficult, even for people who really do well with overblows. And this beautiful tune, this beautiful song that Burt Bacharach and Roberta Flack were producing on Roberta Flack, I was hired. And I couldn't get that seventh, that minor seventh, you know, on a on the draw was just no matter how much I tried with my lack of overblow techniques but still were able to do it someone passing notes did not cut it and I I I was humiliated and embarrassed and that's when I decided um to start coming out with these different tunings because, you know, there was no room for me to sit there. I didn't have a tool kit. There was no room for me to do the stuff that I would be prepared since that bad experience.

SPEAKER_00:

So had your harmonica range already come out and then you added different tunings later?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, when I first started with tombo in the late 70s, you know, just preparing, I learned about manufacturing that there's no room for impulse. I mean, I had so many ideas. I had a list of so many different tunings and different things I wanted to do. And machines and setup and manufacturing, there's no room for all that. You've got to start small and you've got to decide exactly what you want to do. Whether it's equal tuning or temper tuning and whatever. So I came out with the Mage Lightonic Harmonic Minor and then soon after added the Natural Minor. And then I said, you know, even though you can use the natural minor to play the relative major, let's do what I decided to call the melody maker. And so all that was within, you know, a year from the time I came out to a year later, the melody maker.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so that must have been pretty innovative at the time.

SPEAKER_02:

Harmonic minor was old. That was because of German music, symphonic stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

It

SPEAKER_02:

was a certain ten-hole, and it was literally a minor. But even my solo album and all that, that was all me tuning to make that. I remember home, that stuff. That's before I had the harmonicas.

SPEAKER_00:

You do play different tunings on your solo albums, don't you? So is that information available anywhere around which tunings you play and which songs?

SPEAKER_02:

The only thing that I played that was altered was what is a harmonic minor from a major diatonic, and that's a B harmonic minor. Everything else was just straight major diatonic.

SPEAKER_00:

Again, so your company, you came up and... You know, tremendous success. You must be really proud of what you've done with the Oskar harmonicas. Again, I think you've led the way with different tunings. And I think those harmonicas were very good quality harmonicas and have been for a long time. Like you say, that was probably one of your main drivers because of the lack of quality in some of the other harmonicas around at the time. So they stood up really well, didn't they, those Oskar harmonicas?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, my needs and what I was on a quest for didn't give the answers. That was what I would settle with starting there. But the credit, unfortunately, was that Thumbo themselves, amazing, amazing loyalty to make the best quality. I mean, it's a commitment from the great-grandfather. I mean, their whole family and the generations and what they have been through. Nothing but respect and their quality control is next to none. And it's been an amazing ride. I mean, everything I've been in business doing since I started with Tombow, not just the quality of my product, even the business or the logistics of shipping and everything is just perfect. I've never had a headache in my relationship in business with Tombow, with the Mono family. It's funny. It's like I don't have to put fires out, and when somebody complains about my harmonica, I know, you know, usually it's the two and three draw, which is common difficulty. And I love the fact that I can even personally get on the phone, not just have one of our techs, but on the phone and walk them through it, and then they end up being more than happy because they learned, took the mystery out of harmonica, and they can appreciate our quality. And that's what I live for, is that it's not just honking on it. They can really... Once they understand enough about it, then they can really appreciate the subtleties of what makes a harmonica better than anything else I've ever had.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, over the last 10 or 20 years or so, the harmonicas have really revolutionized. The quality has really gone up, hasn't it? It certainly has. So, I mean, the Oscar is still going well, yeah, still going strong. You're still out there producing and selling well your harmonica range, yeah? We're about 30% of the market, yeah. That's pretty incredible, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's changing because things are online now. But as far as when it was brick-and-mortar stores and all that, it was basically, proportionally-wise, Horner and Lee Oscar. And I would say out of every 10, seven Horner and three Lee Oscars.

SPEAKER_00:

And still going strong? I mean, you're still innovating. I think you've released some more low tunings in different keys, haven't you, quite recently? So you're still working on developments and innovations?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. We have added... four more low keys so we always had the low F but now we have low F sharp and low E low D and low C and the reason why we do a low F sharp is because a lot of people like to tune down a half a step on the guitar so there's the F sharp and a low E because a lot of people play straight harp and they play in key of E on the guitar and And, you know, normal E is a little on the high side unless somebody has really good tone, you know. And then, of course, low C and low D. But I do want to say that a few things we're coming out with. Well, right now we just came out with four more melody makers and four more keys because the melody makers are starting to do really, really well. A lot of people are starting to, you know, recognize and relying on that tuning. It's all a trademark in a sense. We don't want to make that tuning and we don't want to call it a melody maker. Now you've got another company copying us and it's called a melodic maker. I

SPEAKER_00:

talked about that tuning on recent podcasts and talking to guys like Charlie McCoy. So the melody maker has got the A note in the bottom octave on the C harmonica and it's got the F sharp on the 5 draw. So you've basically got a second position major scale, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Charlie McCoy's got the, you know, the typical, which is very important, so you can have both your seventh and your flattest seventh. And imagine like Charlie going to five draw, you know, if you're playing in second position, then you're playing a minor seventh. But by having... If it's a C-hop and the F now is on the five draw, it's an F sharp. Charlie McCoy has done that for a long time. The ray, like do-ray, you know, the second note in the scale, without half the bend, is very important to a lot of people. So when you play melodies in second position... You don't need the same note on the three blowers, the two draws, because you're not going from a one to a five chord. So do, re, so G, A on the three blowers and A. But the chord-wise is really important, too, because now you can play not just dominant. Now you can play a reggae, a clave, African. You can play so many things, starting from blow with an A minor seventh on that G melody maker. relative to the C or you can play the G major 7th so it opens up a lot of windows I've got letters from one student musician he was out of the UK when he got a hold of one he said he gave me a whole new career and I think that was pretty happy to hear that that was wonderful Right. So we came out initially because it takes time for things to catch on. We came out in the five keys, and that's based on the common keys guitar players play in. But now there's a lot of people who have found out about it and is loving it, and they want to have it in the keys that are more or less for the home players and all that. So we came out with B-flat, E-flat. high C because the normal C is low. So now the high C is like the F major diatonic as a high C melody maker. And it's also a B flat melody maker. People have been waiting. We're just getting them out. So we have the melody maker as the major diatonic, but we're also coming out with a tremolo that will hopefully be soon out. The idea has been around for quite a while with us. It's called the Hawaiian harmonica. And basically I look at the Germans. They got the Alps. And tremolo has been a very popular harmonica sound in the old days in Europe and still is in Asia. So I decided I want to come out with a tremolo and call it a Hawaiian harmonica. And it'll be a beautiful looking harmonica with Hawaiian islands on it. And that's going to be released hopefully later this year. I

SPEAKER_00:

understand that Junior Wells is such a fan of your harmonicas that he actually was buried with a tray of them.

SPEAKER_02:

That's what the rumor is. I know that they, I know some of the Oscar Monaco's were put in the grave with him. I guess it was a tray. I don't know. I was there, but I don't recall exactly how many. Yeah. He was, he was a great guy. I should also mention that we, you know, we have the interchangeable replays, you know, we were the pioneer of that stuff and, and it does well, but we stopped making the tool kit and, only because I was not happy with the quality. And I knew that high-quality stuff, people have to pay more money, and a lot of people really think tools are worth. But I still didn't want to keep it out there. And we're just working on now getting a new toolkit together that's going to be amazing. Even the tool we created is to put the nuts and bolts back, you know, so people, if they're all thumbs, they won't have a problem. So it's really a... I'm very much looking forward to get that out as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's a good idea. A lot of people are now into doing their own maintenance. Certainly, I do my own. I do have one of your older toolkits, actually, but it's quite old now. I've lost a few parts, but yeah, it'd be interesting to check out the new one. And I think the low E is a really good idea as well. I don't actually have a low E. I have a few other low keys, but the low E is a very good idea, like you say, in first position. So yeah, lots of innovations. Like you said, the change in the replays was something else which you guys came up with first as well. Anything else you want to say about the manufacturing side before we move

SPEAKER_02:

on? I just want to say that quality control is very, very important to us and Tombo. And I'm just very, very proud and happy, I can't emphasize enough, to have that collaboration and take the mystery out of the harmonica to a consumer and educate them. It's all part of it. It's not just making a good harmonica, but educating people and the quality and all that. There's so much potential. We have barely touched on what all the possibilities are. I feel like the harmonica world is just getting started, as you say. Things are being improved and all that. We're going to be there for a long time. So I'm definitely looking forward to the continued ride.

SPEAKER_00:

Definitely some great harmonicas you've made there, so well done. You've certainly added a lot to the harmonica instrument. Just talking about teaching, so you do offer, through your website, there's a teaching section which is actually taught by Steve Lockwood on your website.

SPEAKER_02:

Steve Lockwood is a brilliant harmonica teacher. Not only a really fine player, but his teaching is just wonderful. I've seen him do amazing things to people that have tried hard with other resources and couldn't quite get there. And so we endorse him. And we are also creating a product with him that will be amazing tools for teaching that we're in the middle of putting together.

SPEAKER_00:

So have you ever done any teaching yourself?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't think so. I have knowledge. I love doing workshops, but it's information. I can show somebody stuff and that, but I'm not a good teacher. So I would lean on more than I'm good for information, how to tune and anything like that. But to actually literally teach somebody to play and all that, it's not my cup of tea.

SPEAKER_00:

You do do a little bit of singing, don't you?

SPEAKER_02:

There's a few tunes that are known, like Why Can't We Be Friends. But I'm really not a singer. So I've always leaned on the music part and singing is kind of like, I appreciate it. I love my melodies when lyrics are written to my melodies and I can hear a song. It's beautiful. It's amazing when that is married, but no. I'd rather play my harmonica, play the melodies, and let Howard Levy or someone like that collaborate with me, and he does the solos, and I'll be the singer.

SPEAKER_00:

Certainly something which stands out with your solo albums. There's some great arrangements on there. You've got strings on there, you've got horns on there. You talked about composition. Are a lot of the songs on your albums songs that you've written yourself? Pretty much everything I've composed myself, yeah. I mean, there are some fantastic compositions on there, like you say, and very catchy melodies. So does that include all the parts as well? Are you composing all the parts to all the songs, all the different instruments?

SPEAKER_02:

The way in general I also love producing, half of the arrangement is the chemistry of the people I put together. As far as different destruction about counterlines, whether it's the violin, the cello, or the horns, a lot of that is countermelody lines I hear in my head. It's still keeping the magic of what somebody wants to compose. tribute I would sing the melody lines like he went on my road to Gene Page I would sing the different cello and violin parts and so he would take a tape recorder come to my home and record my counter melodies whether it's the cello or the viola or whatever and then he would take his expertise which is knowing about strings and So it's a combination, but it always basically starts with my maladies again, counter maladies, anything for someone to lean on, to embellish.

SPEAKER_00:

I mean, obviously, you know, you've had a very successful career, lots of solo albums as well as The War and Law Rider. Would you have any advice for young bands or young harmonica players coming up today?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, whether you're a harmonica player or just anything, I don't care if you're selling apples, pears, fish or harmonica. First of all, if you're in business, then know that it's not just how well you play. You also have to learn the business itself. So I always tell people, young people, you only earn what you know how to claim. And the other thing is, if you're going to be true to your art, then you must understand how business works. So you have to be honest, not just about your music, but also be honest about, as you're hungry for acknowledgement, you have to be honest about not agreeing to something until you understand it. Everything else is just your canvas, and I'm not going to tell somebody else how to paint. I'm not going to tell somebody else how to play. It's your thing. If you connect with your soul, your harmonica or whatever instrument, you connect with your soul as if it's one, then you're really connected to playing music. Until then, it's just a physical exercise. You hear somebody singing. And then they pick up the harmonica and play, or the guitar and play. If their phrasing on a guitar or a harmonica doesn't have the same persona as the way you sing, that tells me already that you're not in it. You're playing the instrument from thinking rather than just from your soul.

SPEAKER_00:

So a question I ask each time is, if you had 10 minutes to practice, what would you spend those 10 minutes doing?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I think... It's good to play with good tone, play with phrasing, breathing. Take 10 minutes every day when you're starting off and just learn to play a pure tone on the two-draw or the three-draw. Because you've got to learn to play unconstricted air. You don't suck air, you breathe air. So 10 minutes, and it's good to practice getting a nice tone.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you play any chromatic harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

The push-button harmonica, I don't hardly play anymore. That was my first harmonica when I was six years old that I got. As I evolved and found it very much better for me, the feel on the reed, instead of being four reeds on the harmonica, you know, there's a lot of air leakage. So I started leaning more on that. The occasional time I might pick up a push-button harmonica to do something, I can play partially chromatic by my tunings, the way it's set up, so I can get my blow bends. But I get by playing things with much more soul and feeling the way I play, relying on my ten holes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So we'll talk about gear now. So an easy answer for you is what brand of harmonic you play? I'm guessing you only play the Oscars.

SPEAKER_02:

You had to ask me, right? Yeah. It sounds crazy, but that's all I use is Lee Oscars. If there was something I came across that I don't make and I would really need to use it for something musicality, I wouldn't deny myself of that possibility. But there's been no need for anything other than my product.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you get specially made ones for you from the factory? That's the question.

SPEAKER_02:

No. No. I use the same thing everybody else buys out of the box. Even when I alter something, I do it myself by hand.

SPEAKER_00:

And do you have a favorite key of harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

I can say that whatever key that people are playing in, I got to play that, obviously. Different positions sometimes, there are different sweet spots. So my choice of what key harmonica is to play a certain position, it comes in to play at times. But in generally... It's tough to say. It's like, what's my favorite color? The sound to me of somewhere in the mid, you know, you know what? It depends on the tune. You know, you can play the same composition, the exact same notation, but the composition comes out differently depending on what key you're playing it in and what octave and what key. So it really is all over the map. Depends on what the melody is or what it's supposed to be about. I mean, some keys are very melancholy. Some keys are more happy and some keys can be sad.

SPEAKER_00:

So another question which has got a pretty obvious answer to you, which I ask each time, is do you play any different tunings? So we know that you do play different tunings because you've got the four main tunings that the Oscar harmonicas provide. So are they all the tunings that you play?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, there's some new compositions that I'm going to release soon, and the album is called Never Forget. And I've gotten into composing some melodies with... an altered tuning from a harmonic minor that is just, it'll tear your heart out. After you hear it for a little bit, then it almost seems normal. It's like just that musical, but it's a little, it's like double harmonic minor scale, basically. So there's some new stuff that I'm coming out with that will have that. But I wanted to mention something, you know, while we're talking about tunings. You know, it's interesting, with our system, which is tuned, designed to be very friendly to take the cover plates and change the reed plates it's all very simple airtight with just three screws you know holding the reed plates in because it's all precise and the system was designed so we can also mix and match reed plates so if somebody wants like the patty rector scale as they call it it's it's really weird why would i want to come out with harmonica called the patty rector when you can uh You can serve yourself well by just using the top reed plate from, let's say, a G Maldi maker and a draw reed plate from a C major diatonic. Then you've got a Patti Richter scale. And if you want to make a Dorian harmonica instead of the natural minor, just take the draw reed plate from, say, a G natural minor and top reed plate from a C major diatonic. And then there's all kinds of other options. That's what I wanted to take the mystery out of because it's a lot cheaper for the consumers and for any of us if we educate people like that rather than buying a harmonica called Patty Richter. When you already have reed plates for the Lyos harmonica system, then you just mix and match. Do you

SPEAKER_00:

use any overblows? And again, maybe because of your tunings, you don't need them so much, but do you play overblows?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't play old blows. I can sometimes do a passing note, and I hear a lot of people doing that. But for me, it's got the intonation, especially if I play harmonica with saxophone, it's got to be spot on. One of the things I love doing is, like I said, is flat down a semitone, the seventh draw. And that way I got the minor third. And I can still, from a blow bend... I can get my third. But to do overblows and overdraws as pristine to the melody or the melody line or whatever, I don't lean on that very much, hardly at all.

SPEAKER_00:

And what about your embouchure?

SPEAKER_02:

I do both. Mostly I curve. Sometimes I'll play the note, the reed for tongue blocking. To anybody outside, they may not know it's very subtle. But to me, it's a totally different, it's a warmer sound sometimes when you play with the tongue blocking. But most of my melodies, anything, individual notes are perched. And then in the middle of it, I might just hit the note and tongue block. So it's all over the map.

SPEAKER_00:

What about amplifiers?

SPEAKER_02:

People have to understand about applications. You can never add to sound. You can't take something and add to the sound. You can only take away to create the other sound. So microphone-wise, I use an M160 Bayer, for example. It's a double ribbon. So it's a very fast microphone that's very fast response. And it's very clean and warm at the same time. So that means the highs, the mids, and the lows are very even. And many microphones that are out there will spike the mids. And the only reason they're made like that is because we as human beings, most music we hear is in the mids. But however, harmonica is around 1k, 2k. It's the mids, the higher mids. And it can kill your ear. if you spike the mids with a harmonica. And so that's based on how you amplify it or what mic you're using. If somebody wants to have that dirty, you know, whatever, they call it a blues sound, which is silly. Blues has nothing to do with the sound, in my opinion. Then what they have to do is they have to start with a microphone that the mids are so out there that it can kill your ear. And then you take compression, like a tube amp, But with compression, and you take that mix that are poking way out there, and you pull it back. I mean, like, pull it back so it's even with the highs and lows. That means the mix is, like, freaking shaking like an angry monster. And that's what activates those tubes in the amplifier. And now you've got... That gnarly sound, but it's still smooth because it's even with the highs and the lows, the mids. That's basically the theory in how people should get that sound. And a lot of people don't understand that, and they're chasing after it. My sound, I like to have that high-end microphone, so it's like a great ear. And so I have much more to process. I can play to octave pedals. I can play to anything that they call guitar pedals, which is not. It's just an application that you can play harmonica through. But it'll track much better than some gnarly microphone that a lot of people use because my source is bigger and cleaner. So there's two different philosophies about how to apply there. The other thing is an amplifier, like the old days, is to feed the audience. And it sits and stands behind you. So I use my own monitor and it's called a powered speaker with my own device. So I can control my, with my device, I control my level in front of me with the power speaker. And then another signal out of my device into the sound, the house system. They can also give me another monitor with everybody else's instrumentation coming through so I can hear what they got out in the audience and my monitors that normally that I get to feed, plus my own monitor that can control my level with just me in there. That makes a lot more sense to me because it's in front of me and I can control my level and all that. I think a lot of people just buying the story that everybody else says is the right way and not getting very experimental and not really understanding enough about applications to justify why they're doing what they're doing and that's what people got to be educated about

SPEAKER_00:

and so you mentioned effects pedals do you use any particular effects pedals

SPEAKER_02:

for many years I lean on the landscape of sounds I lean on of course reverb I lean on an octave pedal and I lean on chorus a lot I mean I've done many other kinds of things in landscape of sounds but those are the three essentials and the order you put in so you go first to octave and then then to chorus, and then reverb. But I've been into where I want to, like I didn't have a steel drum, so I created a wrong sound with steel drum, with harmonica, but I just understand the logic. The octave that you get in that bottom of a steel drum pan, there's kind of that really low octave of resonance. So that would be an analog octave pedal. It feeds through, the next one would be an envelope filter. And the envelope filter, I want it to be like, so it's a staccato. Ding, ding. And if you play to an emerald filter that has the right range, then when you're playing staccato, just like on a steel drum, you're doing that. And you've got that low octave thing with it, with the peak of the emerald filter and some reverb. Now I can emulate a steel drum. There's so many creative things you can do rather than just saying, oh, that's a guitar pedal. And every brand makes many different pedals. And they all call it octave pedals, but every one of them is a different sound of octave. So, yes, I use it all at different times, and some things almost become the staple thing that I choose. But

SPEAKER_00:

it's all about sound for me. Final question, Asif. Thanks very much for your time. So just any future plans you've got coming up at the moment?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, most of the stuff that I'm getting ready to put out is almost done. I have a company called Dreams We Share. dreamsweshare.com. I've already released a few things. One is the Miyazaki album, Japanese saxophone player. Then Moses Conkers is a harmonica beatbox player. Amazing stuff. I mean, we have one tune on Dreams We Share and the video. The tune is something me and him played together at our European distributor that we recorded there. We jammed and we called it Moonshines. David Rotundo is an amazing entertainer, singer, songwriter, harmonica player. I just produced his album. It's called So Much Trouble. That'll be on our website and also on Spotify and that. And then I got two albums of my own. One is called Never Forget, which is very symphonic rooted stuff. And then the other album is called Leos and Friends. It has lots of fun, beautiful stuff going on from reggae to world beat, you name it. Array of amazing music. that I was really happy producing that's pretty much done too

SPEAKER_00:

so well that's fantastic I look forward to hearing all those things sounds like you've been really busily so thanks so much for your time really appreciate you joining me on the podcast today

SPEAKER_02:

well thank you for having

SPEAKER_00:

me that's it for today folks final word from my sponsor the Longwolf Blues Company providing some great effects pedals and microphones all purpose built for the harmonica be sure to check out their website Lee plays out with some fine blues.